@orangefj45 and @MountNGoat I look forward to hearing how the 2nd gen comes out. My setup is very familiar, haven't gotten enough miles to see if the fluid will transfer to the tcase yet. Thanks for all the insight.
Northwest fabworks BLACK BOX (1 Viewer)
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He probably wants a PWM, they can be had for cheap and include a dial like a rheostat to adjust speed/flow rate. Sometimes lowering voltage like that will cause overheat in the windings of a motor, and the PWM can be adjusted quite easily.
Not according to the engineer from Turbowerx that I spoke to (that was their recommended solution). Sounded like they do that all the time and he even recommended the part to lower the voltage for me. And the pump is fully rebuildable, which is nice.
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
Why do I ever question your research?!
lol
that’s a compliment ......
Georg @ Valley Hybrids, Cruiser Brothers & Long Range America
Hey @orangefj45 , any updates on this? We're starting an LS/6L80 swap for one of our customers and would be interested in the blackbox as the adapter, but only if the second gen has solved the oiling issues. $2000 for a chunk of cast aluminum and a spud shaft feels like highway robbery...
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
It’s all billet aluminum with tons of machine & R&D time invested.
So far we’ve installed 2 of the updated BBs ...... no oiling issues.
For a vehicle that’ll be driven on the highway a lot, I’d still recommend setting up an external pump/reservoir oiling system.
Georg @ Valley Hybrids, Cruiser Brothers & Long Range America
So far we’ve installed 2 of the updated BBs ...... no oiling issues.
For a vehicle that’ll be driven on the highway a lot, I’d still recommend setting up an external pump/reservoir oiling system.
Georg @ Valley Hybrids, Cruiser Brothers & Long Range America
My highway robbery comment was regarding the Mark's kit. The two BB's you've installed - I'm assuming you mean installed them in stock condition without the remote reservoir setup?
Are you guys going to sell a kit for the pump/reservoir? I could replicate it with the info here, but if you've already got something in the works no need to re-invent the wheel...
I have one of the two '2nd gen' BB's that Georg has installed, in my 1989 FJ62 (she's a bit enhanced though...tipping scales at close to 6,500 lbs) and my rig is driven on highways MUCH more regularly than trails (unfortunately).
I previously had the '1st gen' BB in my truck, and experienced all of the oiling issues (burping through breather constantly, degradation of internal thrust washers that led to popping out of gear, etc.).
Following the install, I put some Thermax stickers on the exterior of the BB (and also carry around an infared thermometer now) and can most joyously report that it has not exceeded 220d - and not a drop of oil has burped up through breather.
I have put almost 1500 miles on the truck since the install, and will be changing the BB oil soon to check condition, amount, etc. - but there have been no signs of anything awry.
I am extremely happy with the product (now, after Georg's rehabilitation of my truck) and no longer think that an external pump/reservoir/cooler situation is necessary at all.
I previously had the '1st gen' BB in my truck, and experienced all of the oiling issues (burping through breather constantly, degradation of internal thrust washers that led to popping out of gear, etc.).
Following the install, I put some Thermax stickers on the exterior of the BB (and also carry around an infared thermometer now) and can most joyously report that it has not exceeded 220d - and not a drop of oil has burped up through breather.
I have put almost 1500 miles on the truck since the install, and will be changing the BB oil soon to check condition, amount, etc. - but there have been no signs of anything awry.
I am extremely happy with the product (now, after Georg's rehabilitation of my truck) and no longer think that an external pump/reservoir/cooler situation is necessary at all.
Have you installed any on an 80 series with factory engine and A343 transmission? Curious about the gas tank clearancing that may be required.
Nice, that's great firsthand experience and info to help others. Please post up your observations when you get around to changing the oil, that will be interesting!
That's awesome to hear. I still plan to cycle the fluid in mine, but have definitely been trying to figure out how ORD gets away with no cooler and essentially the same setup with the same fluid capacity.
Running gear lube in yours?
I'm not aware of any, but @orangefj45 can say for sure since he put whatever's inside, inside
I will probably use redline heavy shockproof gear oil when I change it.
will do
Georg's experience would overrule mine, but I am fairly sure that fuel tank relocation is necessary when installing a BB into a J80 cruiser, regardless of transmission (I actually first picked up my BB from @dirtyboots because he decided to change directions on his build for this very reason).
Finally got around to changing the BB oil (actually, finally got around to posting about my changing the BB oil a few weeks back); was about 2000 miles since the installation of the '2nd gen' BB - thus my first time changing the oil with the new BB; my findings:
Overall condition was OK...not great based on the color...but I have seen worse. No metallic shavings or anything floating around in there, so that is great. In total, 12oz of fluid drained out of BB - but since drain plug is not on exact bottom of case, there is room for a few more ounces to be hiding in there.
I also loosened the fill plug on tcase to see if any oil came out of there (which would indicate some is passing through seals b/w BB and tcase). There was a tiny gush of air when I loosened the plug, so it was little bit pressurized, and some fluid did leak out (2ozs total).
So, it does seem like there is some BB fluid passing through seal into tcase...but not much.
According to @MountNGoat - upon close inspection of interior of the new BB case, there isn't a way to totally prevent oil migration through the seals (his words = "bearing around shaft where it exits to the tcase will not stop oil migration because it isn't press-fit; eventually the grease in the 'sealed' bearing will get displaced by oil").
I'm hoping it stays manageable, and the quantity of oil migration doesn't increase...because 2ozs over 2000 miles doesn't worry me...but I will be keeping an eye on this.
So, 12ozs drained out of BB + 2ozs migrated into tcase + whatever was left in BB below the the drain plug (~1 - 2ozs I'm assuming) is roughly consistent with what I understand to be the recommended (by NorthWest Fab) amount of oil it should hold.
I filled the BB with approx 16ozs of redline heavy shockproof gear oil - and am paying close attention to the catch-can at end of BB breather (so far, still no burpage - and thermax stickers have not registered a higher temp than before), and when I change the oil the next time, I will compare measured amounts that come out of the case(s) and post additional findings/insights here.
I still am not convinced if the external oil supply (being pumped out of BB drain, through cooler+filter+pump, and then back into the new 3rd-port...which I used as a fill port...on the other side of BB case) is necessary or not - though it probably is recommendable nonetheless (if for no other reason than to lengthen time/mileage between oil changes by increasing the total volume of oil that circulates in BB) but I sure am glad that the 3rd port now exists regardless; it was SO MUCH EASIER to change the oil (vs. having to inject through the breather port) and having the ability to add the external oil supply in the future gives peace of mind.
Overall condition was OK...not great based on the color...but I have seen worse. No metallic shavings or anything floating around in there, so that is great. In total, 12oz of fluid drained out of BB - but since drain plug is not on exact bottom of case, there is room for a few more ounces to be hiding in there.
I also loosened the fill plug on tcase to see if any oil came out of there (which would indicate some is passing through seals b/w BB and tcase). There was a tiny gush of air when I loosened the plug, so it was little bit pressurized, and some fluid did leak out (2ozs total).
So, it does seem like there is some BB fluid passing through seal into tcase...but not much.
According to @MountNGoat - upon close inspection of interior of the new BB case, there isn't a way to totally prevent oil migration through the seals (his words = "bearing around shaft where it exits to the tcase will not stop oil migration because it isn't press-fit; eventually the grease in the 'sealed' bearing will get displaced by oil").
I'm hoping it stays manageable, and the quantity of oil migration doesn't increase...because 2ozs over 2000 miles doesn't worry me...but I will be keeping an eye on this.
So, 12ozs drained out of BB + 2ozs migrated into tcase + whatever was left in BB below the the drain plug (~1 - 2ozs I'm assuming) is roughly consistent with what I understand to be the recommended (by NorthWest Fab) amount of oil it should hold.
I filled the BB with approx 16ozs of redline heavy shockproof gear oil - and am paying close attention to the catch-can at end of BB breather (so far, still no burpage - and thermax stickers have not registered a higher temp than before), and when I change the oil the next time, I will compare measured amounts that come out of the case(s) and post additional findings/insights here.
I still am not convinced if the external oil supply (being pumped out of BB drain, through cooler+filter+pump, and then back into the new 3rd-port...which I used as a fill port...on the other side of BB case) is necessary or not - though it probably is recommendable nonetheless (if for no other reason than to lengthen time/mileage between oil changes by increasing the total volume of oil that circulates in BB) but I sure am glad that the 3rd port now exists regardless; it was SO MUCH EASIER to change the oil (vs. having to inject through the breather port) and having the ability to add the external oil supply in the future gives peace of mind.
Sounds like you are having a little better luck than I am on the BB. I do have a temp sensor in the bottom of the BB. Here is how mine does on road travel.
This was after it cooled down a bit. It was right at 258 F. when I was pulling in my driveway. That was after a 16 mile drive at 55 mph.
After I installed the pump, filter and cooler. This is what it is at after an all day trip up the north shore of Lake Superior. About 250 miles this day.
Hope you don't mind me adding to your BB data.
This was after it cooled down a bit. It was right at 258 F. when I was pulling in my driveway. That was after a 16 mile drive at 55 mph.
After I installed the pump, filter and cooler. This is what it is at after an all day trip up the north shore of Lake Superior. About 250 miles this day.
Hope you don't mind me adding to your BB data.
So I am electing to keep my external cooler as well. It just doesn’t seem like enough volume of oil. I am adding a clear sight tube to the exterior to know when I’ve got the BB half full, which will also tell me how much I’m down due to fluid migration into the split case so I’ll know when to make adjustments to both. My old reservoir will also continue to function as the breather exit and fill port. And I’ve slowed down the pump flow rate by half with a 12V-6V converter as mine was really moving it fast. I’m going to put a couple thousand road miles on this setup starting in about 3 weeks.Sounds like you are having a little better luck than I am on the BB. I do have a temp sensor in the bottom of the BB. Here is how mine does on road travel.
This was after it cooled down a bit. It was right at 258 F. when I was pulling in my driveway. That was after a 16 mile drive at 55 mph.
After I installed the pump, filter and cooler. This is what it is at after an all day trip up the north shore of Lake Superior. About 250 miles this day.
Hope you don't mind me adding to your BB data.
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Sounds like you are having a little better luck than I am on the BB. I do have a temp sensor in the bottom of the BB. Here is how mine does on road travel.
This was after it cooled down a bit. It was right at 258 F. when I was pulling in my driveway. That was after a 16 mile drive at 55 mph.
After I installed the pump, filter and cooler. This is what it is at after an all day trip up the north shore of Lake Superior. About 250 miles this day.
Hope you don't mind me adding to your BB data.
Absolutely don't mind! Much appreciated in fact.
My thermax sticker readings of <220d are not worrisome, but that temp is high enough to degrade oil (especially for long periods). Plus, they are on the outside of the case - and the oil itself on the inside is always going to be a little warmer than that...and I would be much more comfortable with steady ~130d readings like you are getting with an external oil loop.
I'm definitely not opposed to adding a pump/filter/cooler system in the future (and, probably will at some point) - I mainly just want prospective new BB owners not to feel like it's a must-have
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Uh, he cut his operating temps in half, verified. That sounds like a must-have to me.
Do you think if you just added a tank to the system that was plumbed from the bottom drain to the side fill, that fluid would slowly flow and help reduce heat in the system without the need to add a pump? Say a 1 qt tank?
