Northwest fabworks BLACK BOX (3 Viewers)

[fjdiesel]

Do you think if you just added a tank to the system that was plumbed from the bottom drain to the side fill, that fluid would slowly flow and help reduce heat in the system without the need to add a pump? Say a 1 qt tank?

I do think it would help. Especially if made of aluminum and finned??

 

[GLTHFJ60]

@orangefj45 are you planning on offering a BB fluid pump/reservoir kit for sale? Mulling over piecing my own system together for my BB, but will wait for your kit if you intend to offer one.

 

[orangefj45]

No immediate plans but the next time we install a BB here at Valley Hybrids, we will add a fluid circulating system. At that point, we could potentially offer a “kit” or the info/list of components.
Georg @ Valley Hybrids

 

[MountNGoat]

I never did post up here about the resolution of my BB situation. The new 3-port housing, which holds a bit more fluid than the old 2-port housing, was installed by the great team at Overland Cruisers (said team including my son, @JohnnyOshow22) in Belgrade, MT. After comparing the internals of the two cases I wasn't comfortable that the extra fluid volume would be sufficient, so I kept my oil cooling system operable. Now, the breather tube goes up to what was my reservoir tank which is now full of air, not oil. But, this provides a convenient way to fill the BB when I change the oil, and it gives it a space to burp into and retain the oil should the oil circulating pump go out. I also had some clear, oil-rated tubing installed between the 'drain' port tube feeding the pump and the breather port tube heading up to my reservoir. This gives me a sight tube so that when filling I know when I've got the housing about half full. If you recall, in my old setup it ran with the housing completely full, with the oil column extending about 3' up to my reservoir tank. I wanted to be sure this wasn't happening again because a) it cut down on mpg's and b) it added pressure (not much) to the housing, forcing oil migration (over time) into my split case. I've driven it close to 2000 miles now, including many long highway stretches from MT back to CA by way of UT and NV, and many long off road stretches in UT and NV, and the Rubicon Trail , and have not had any issues.

 

[fjdiesel]

I never did post up here about the resolution of my BB situation. The new 3-port housing, which holds a bit more fluid than the old 2-port housing, was installed by the great team at Overland Cruisers (said team including my son, @JohnnyOshow22) in Belgrade, MT. After comparing the internals of the two cases I wasn't comfortable that the extra fluid volume would be sufficient, so I kept my oil cooling system operable. Now, the breather tube goes up to what was my reservoir tank which is now full of air, not oil. But, this provides a convenient way to fill the BB when I change the oil, and it gives it a space to burp into and retain the oil should the oil circulating pump go out. I also had some clear, oil-rated tubing installed between the 'drain' port tube feeding the pump and the breather port tube heading up to my reservoir. This gives me a sight tube so that when filling I know when I've got the housing about half full. If you recall, in my old setup it ran with the housing completely full, with the oil column extending about 3' up to my reservoir tank. I wanted to be sure this wasn't happening again because a) it cut down on mpg's and b) it added pressure (not much) to the housing, forcing oil migration (over time) into my split case. I've driven it close to 2000 miles now, including many long highway stretches from MT back to CA by way of UT and NV, and many long off road stretches in UT and NV, and the Rubicon Trail , and have not had any issues.

I have pretty much the same setup. And I have gotten the same results. I have put on about 6500 miles this year. With long road trips as well. The hottest I seen on my gauge was 180F in South Dakota on a 98F degree day doing a lot of hwy driving.. Everything stays cool. Just wanted to second what you said for anyone doing homework.

 

[J1000]

I did a little unboxing/install video for the Blackbox-C because there is not really anything available. It is a cool little guy and really well made. Install was easy enough, I didn't realize the t-case has to come apart to install the BB shaft.

I will do the same as you have done @MountNGoat with the electric pump etc.

 

[Zoverlander]

Finally got around to changing the BB oil (actually, finally got around to posting about my changing the BB oil a few weeks back); was about 2000 miles since the installation of the '2nd gen' BB - thus my first time changing the oil with the new BB; my findings:

Overall condition was OK...not great based on the color...but I have seen worse. No metallic shavings or anything floating around in there, so that is great. In total, 12oz of fluid drained out of BB - but since drain plug is not on exact bottom of case, there is room for a few more ounces to be hiding in there.

I also loosened the fill plug on tcase to see if any oil came out of there (which would indicate some is passing through seals b/w BB and tcase). There was a tiny gush of air when I loosened the plug, so it was little bit pressurized, and some fluid did leak out (2ozs total).

So, it does seem like there is some BB fluid passing through seal into tcase...but not much.

According to @MountNGoat - upon close inspection of interior of the new BB case, there isn't a way to totally prevent oil migration through the seals (his words = "bearing around shaft where it exits to the tcase will not stop oil migration because it isn't press-fit; eventually the grease in the 'sealed' bearing will get displaced by oil").

I'm hoping it stays manageable, and the quantity of oil migration doesn't increase...because 2ozs over 2000 miles doesn't worry me...but I will be keeping an eye on this.

So, 12ozs drained out of BB + 2ozs migrated into tcase + whatever was left in BB below the the drain plug (~1 - 2ozs I'm assuming) is roughly consistent with what I understand to be the recommended (by NorthWest Fab) amount of oil it should hold.

I filled the BB with approx 16ozs of redline heavy shockproof gear oil - and am paying close attention to the catch-can at end of BB breather (so far, still no burpage - and thermax stickers have not registered a higher temp than before), and when I change the oil the next time, I will compare measured amounts that come out of the case(s) and post additional findings/insights here.


I still am not convinced if the external oil supply (being pumped out of BB drain, through cooler+filter+pump, and then back into the new 3rd-port...which I used as a fill port...on the other side of BB case) is necessary or not - though it probably is recommendable nonetheless (if for no other reason than to lengthen time/mileage between oil changes by increasing the total volume of oil that circulates in BB) but I sure am glad that the 3rd port now exists regardless; it was SO MUCH EASIER to change the oil (vs. having to inject through the breather port) and having the ability to add the external oil supply in the future gives peace of mind.

Just changed BB fluid for 2nd time...after almost 2000 miles. 16ozs came out (same amount I put in, which means no migration through seals to tcase this time). Condition was pretty good actually. No burnt smell, and color was normal. Zero shavings on plug magnets either. Overall report = STOKED!

 

[orangefj45]

Just changed BB fluid for 2nd time...after almost 2000 miles. 16ozs came out (same amount I put in, which means no migration through seals to tcase this time). Condition was pretty good actually. No burnt smell, and color was normal. Zero shavings on plug magnets either. Overall report = STOKED!

View attachment 2898088

That’s great news! Thanks for posting this update. It’s what mud is all about!

Cheers my friend!

Georg @ Valley Hybrids @ Cruiser Brothers

 

[MountNGoat]

Just changed BB fluid for 2nd time...after almost 2000 miles. 16ozs came out (same amount I put in, which means no migration through seals to tcase this time). Condition was pretty good actually. No burnt smell, and color was normal. Zero shavings on plug magnets either. Overall report = STOKED!

View attachment 2898088

Happy to hear about your results - good info!

 

[Zoverlander]

That’s great news! Thanks for posting this update. It’s what mud is all about!

Cheers my friend!

Georg @ Valley Hybrids @ Cruiser Brothers

cheers right back at ya!

 

[Blackknight1]

Please update this thread when you figure out which pump (and exterior tank) you'll be using! Pictures of any setup you put together would also be super duper helpful!!

I have a blackbox installed in between H55f and split case in my 62 - and can vouch for everything that's been said thus far. It's an incredibly awesome unit, but it definitely does need more oil capacity for longevity and ease-of-use. The fact that this isn't clearly expressed upfront by NWF (or better-yet, them providing a kitted solution that includes a ported drain plug, exterior oil reservoir with cooling fins and a pump) is certainly annoying and reflects poorly on them (especially after it being on the market for so many years...) - but then again, hopefully everyone considering this upgrade (and the performance and awesomeness this thing brings IS DEFINITELY AN UPGRADE) will do enough research.

I've only put about 1200 miles total on my BB since installing, but right away was dealing with an oil-burping situation and was never excited about the proposed future of changing it's fluid every 1000 miles (which can really only be done using the breather tube, and thus necessitates an access port built into the floor of my rig) - and am going to be doing this exterior oil reservoir+pump solution before putting the truck back in serious use.

Did you ever get a chance to install the reservoir and pump ? If so, would you mind telling me what you are using ? Some pictures of your setup would be great too. I just received mine and I refuse to have to deal with the oil burping issues. Mine is going on a custom 4 door fj45 with 6 liter Ls / 6L90e / Hf2Av on a 80 series chassis.

 

[Blackknight1]

Well I'm glad I saw this thread. I figured it was an easy bolt in deal. Sounds like a real hassle now having to run an external pump and it not clearing the fuel tank.

Nothing easy about this one. They send 0 instructions other than a hand written yellow sticky which only talks about clocking . Requires complete disassembly of t-case and switching the t-case input shaft to the one that comes with the Black box and switching the gear and bearing to the new one. Nothing too difficult for those who've done that type of work before but if it's your first time, set away a few good hours to get it figured out and even more to get it done.
Mine literally was a kick in the balls and while it kicked my ass, I ended up getting it done and I am quite proud of having figured it out with so much help from them ( none to 0).
Can't wait to see what improvements I get from it.

 

[Blackknight1]

Please update this thread when you figure out which pump (and exterior tank) you'll be using! Pictures of any setup you put together would also be super duper helpful!!

I have a blackbox installed in between H55f and split case in my 62 - and can vouch for everything that's been said thus far. It's an incredibly awesome unit, but it definitely does need more oil capacity for longevity and ease-of-use. The fact that this isn't clearly expressed upfront by NWF (or better-yet, them providing a kitted solution that includes a ported drain plug, exterior oil reservoir with cooling fins and a pump) is certainly annoying and reflects poorly on them (especially after it being on the market for so many years...) - but then again, hopefully everyone considering this upgrade (and the performance and awesomeness this thing brings IS DEFINITELY AN UPGRADE) will do enough research.

I've only put about 1200 miles total on my BB since installing, but right away was dealing with an oil-burping situation and was never excited about the proposed future of changing it's fluid every 1000 miles (which can really only be done using the breather tube, and thus necessitates an access port built into the floor of my rig) - and am going to be doing this exterior oil reservoir+pump solution before putting the truck back in serious use.

I found an old Harley Davidson oil tank from a build I did years ago. It holds exactly 4 Quarts and has a gauge for checking fluid levels , a vent and inlet and outlet fittings . Should work perfectly after a good cleaning and paint. I will have to modify some brackets and cut some others off but it will mount nicely to the firewall. Here are some pics of it.

 

[Blackknight1]

I have pretty much the same setup. And I have gotten the same results. I have put on about 6500 miles this year. With long road trips as well. The hottest I seen on my gauge was 180F in South Dakota on a 98F degree day doing a lot of hwy driving.. Everything stays cool. Just wanted to second what you said for anyone doing homework.

Is there any way someone could post some pictures of the way they installed their back box shifter inside their 40- 45 series ? I need some ideas for my installation and would hate to cut into my floor in the wrong placeor findout later that another spot would have been better.
I'm hoping to install a Tuffy style center console later down the way and want yo make sure that one won't be in the way of the other. Thanls in advance.

 

[fjdiesel]

I don't have my BB installed anymore. But I have it in the shop. I will see if I have the shifter on it still.... If so, I will take a pic.

 

[Blackknight1]

No immediate plans but the next time we install a BB here at Valley Hybrids, we will add a fluid circulating system. At that point, we could potentially offer a “kit” or the info/list of components.
Georg @ Valley Hybrids

Hi,
Can yoi post some pictures of how you istalled your cable ? I don't know if you guys found instructions in your boxes when you ordered yours but i found none in mine.
I could really use some help installing that cable. Thanks in advance.

 

[fjdiesel]

@Blackknight1 Sorry, I looked and I forgot I made mine direct shift. I didn't use the cable.

 

[Ry24000]

Call NW Fab. They have awesome customer service. The main guy(Chris) is s BB walking encyclopedia. He filled me with information so fast I had a hard time writing it all down.
Chris mentioned on the cable that it comes in pre cut lengths and to install the box and get a route before ordering.
He also gave me a part number for a oil pump(tilton 40-527).
Call them don't guess! (250)248-6024

 

[Blackknight1]

Call NW Fab. They have awesome customer service. The main guy(Chris) is s BB walking encyclopedia. He filled me with information so fast I had a hard time writing it all down.
Chris mentioned on the cable that it comes in pre cut lengths and to install the box and get a route before ordering.
He also gave me a part number for a oil pump(tilton 40-527).
Call them don't guess! (250)248-6024

Thanks. I'll call him . I appreciate the advice.

 

[geologic]

They still don't actually have one that bolts up to the trans side. I will be using one as the adapter between my GM trans and factory T-case when I motor swap.

I’m looking at doing that now, is this a better option than the Marks adapter