Good afternoon. I recently got for restoration a 1977 FJ40 2f. I decide to take the body out to repaint the frame etc. I did also remove the wiring. Now I'm trying to turn on the engine directly from the starter but it will not start. I can not get any spark from the coil into the distributor and as such nothing to the spark plugs. I have changed the coil, the ballast resistor, the distributor cap, the point, rotor. and wiring. I'm totally lost, not sure what I'm missing. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
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If you have a high voltage spark at the coil, but not at the distributor, then the coil wire to the distributor center is bad. If there is no spark at the spark plugs, then the rotor / distributor cap or spark plug wire are bad.
Mark W
Yep, it's true. I just don't care that much.
Will it spark from the coil wire to ground?
Mark...
Mark...
Mark W
Yep, it's true. I just don't care that much.
Not sure what you mean by "wiring kit", but a '77 FJ40 is damn simple. Run jumpers to the coil and see if you get spark and trigger it manually. then jump power to the coil but use the dist to ground it (you can close the points manually to do so).
Make sure that you are getting power to the coil via the factory wiring too of course. Probably the first thing I would do.
Throwing parts at the problem without a few simple checks to find the problem will leave you chasing your tail.
Make sure you check the ignition fuse... in the older rigs that use the glass tube fuses, oxidation can build up on the contacts and break the circuit, even when the fuse is good.
Mark...
- Thread starter
- #6
Mark.
Thank you again. I'm going to try to elaborate a little more. Right now I have removed the body of the car and all the wiring. I just have the frame and engine. I'm trying to turn on the engine to be able to work on it while the body is being painted etc. Although the car was working before, now I can't turn it on. I can crank the starter but then zero spark from the coil. I'm wiring directly from the switch. I'm sure I'm making a really silly mistake but honestly, I have no idea what else I can do. I'm sure this is a typical error fixation mistake.
Thank you again. I'm going to try to elaborate a little more. Right now I have removed the body of the car and all the wiring. I just have the frame and engine. I'm trying to turn on the engine to be able to work on it while the body is being painted etc. Although the car was working before, now I can't turn it on. I can crank the starter but then zero spark from the coil. I'm wiring directly from the switch. I'm sure I'm making a really silly mistake but honestly, I have no idea what else I can do. I'm sure this is a typical error fixation mistake.
Mark W
Yep, it's true. I just don't care that much.
It looks like you are pulling positive current for the coil from the starter cable connection. That should work. It looks like you have the ground side of the coil going to the distributor. That too is correct of course. (make sure you do not have those reversed at the coil)
Make sure that the points are opening... and closing of course. You can manipulate the points by hand (bridging open points with a screwdriver for example) to make the coil spark without turning the engine. (jump the coil wire directly to ground while doing this just to see if it sparks.)
See what that gives you.
ark...
Make sure that the points are opening... and closing of course. You can manipulate the points by hand (bridging open points with a screwdriver for example) to make the coil spark without turning the engine. (jump the coil wire directly to ground while doing this just to see if it sparks.)
See what that gives you.
ark...
Drag a points file threw them once - there is a thin layer of insulating film preventing the flow of electrons. No changing electric field, means no changing magnetic field and no spark when the points open.
A ‘77 is supposed to have a “semi transistorized” igniter. It can run on just the points alone if you have the distributor wired directly to the - side of the coil as Mark mentioned.
First test the coil for a spark: Connect the coil + to the battery +. Them momentarily ground the - side of the coil. When you let up on the ground wire and break the connection, you should get a big fat spark from the center wire. If so, then connect the distributor points wire to the - side of the coil and crank the engine and see if you get a spark.
First test the coil for a spark: Connect the coil + to the battery +. Them momentarily ground the - side of the coil. When you let up on the ground wire and break the connection, you should get a big fat spark from the center wire. If so, then connect the distributor points wire to the - side of the coil and crank the engine and see if you get a spark.
- Thread starter
- #10
Yes it does have an igniter but mine is not working and even a second hand a quite expensive. Can I ground the - coil to the - battery and bring the Center wire close to engine block. I’m doing this but can’t get the spark using 3 different coils. I have use two different Center wires, could be both are broken? I’m going out now to get a new one and try again. One part I haven’t change is the condenser, could this be the problem? Thank everyone for all the help.
As you found, this doesn’t work. What does work is connecting the coil + to the battery+ and then momentarily touching a wire from the battery - to the coil minus. If you keep this wire connected, nothing happens. Every time you touch the ground wire to the coil - and remove it you get a spark. That is the way it works.
Probably not.
If you don’t run an igniter, you will need a condenser (and not the one that came with the ignition because that is only for radio noise suppression). You need a new ignition condenser.
How do you know the igniter does’t work if you cant get a spark?
- Thread starter
- #12
The igniter was broken before all this “mess” and the car was running.
I’m attaching a diagram of how I’m wiring it now. I decide to use the switch. Is something wrong in this way of doing it? If not I guess there is a broken component but now sure how to troubleshoot it.
To reiterate what @Pin_Head stated, above:
As you found, this doesn’t work. What does work is connecting the coil + to the battery+ and then momentarily touching a wire from the battery - to the coil minus. If you keep this wire connected, nothing happens. Every time you touch the ground wire to the coil - and remove it you get a spark. That is the way it works.
If you're haven't found a spark, take all the distractions out of the picture.
Positive wire to positive coil. Negative wire touching negative coil. Lifting the negative wire off of the negative coil post should generate a spark coming out of the coil high tension wire to ground. All connections, switches, ballasts points, condenser out of the picture. Build it from there.
As you found, this doesn’t work. What does work is connecting the coil + to the battery+ and then momentarily touching a wire from the battery - to the coil minus. If you keep this wire connected, nothing happens. Every time you touch the ground wire to the coil - and remove it you get a spark. That is the way it works.
If you're haven't found a spark, take all the distractions out of the picture.
Positive wire to positive coil. Negative wire touching negative coil. Lifting the negative wire off of the negative coil post should generate a spark coming out of the coil high tension wire to ground. All connections, switches, ballasts points, condenser out of the picture. Build it from there.
What switch? You can’t tell what it does because it is not a schematic diagram. If it is wired Ike it was in the car except for the igniter, then you should get a spark. You need an ignition condenser, not the one that was attached to the ignitior.
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
Be sure the wire going to distributor isnt grounding out prior to connecting to the points. Current has to has to go thru the points then to ground. When the points open, the coil releases its built up energy.
pb4ugo
SILVER Star
Yes, and make sure that attachment isn't grounding either. Or any part of that side of the points. The current has to go thru the points when they are closed.
- Thread starter
- #18
I want to thank everyone for helping and giving me so much advice. Definitively I can't figure out: I did try to get a spark from the coil as explained before but zero spark. Several things:
1. The coils I have used, need an external ballast resistor (I guess they are 6v) but no marks are saying that. Should I get a 12v with an internal resistor coil??
2. The voltage at the positive pole on the coil when cranking is 9v and I'm using the 12v bypass. So two wires coming to this + pole: the one from the resistor and the bypass one. Is this number ok? Reading it says needs to be above 10.5v at least. Not sure where I'm losing this V.
3. Same, the voltage at the S pole on the solenoid is 9v when cranking.
4. There is no drop voltage checking the battery cables.
6. Try with a second battery also. (both reading 12.5 - 12.6V)
... Might need to hire a mechanic to come to my place to see... AHHHHH!!!!
1. The coils I have used, need an external ballast resistor (I guess they are 6v) but no marks are saying that. Should I get a 12v with an internal resistor coil??
2. The voltage at the positive pole on the coil when cranking is 9v and I'm using the 12v bypass. So two wires coming to this + pole: the one from the resistor and the bypass one. Is this number ok? Reading it says needs to be above 10.5v at least. Not sure where I'm losing this V.
3. Same, the voltage at the S pole on the solenoid is 9v when cranking.
4. There is no drop voltage checking the battery cables.
6. Try with a second battery also. (both reading 12.5 - 12.6V)
... Might need to hire a mechanic to come to my place to see... AHHHHH!!!!
You seem to keep on doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. You need to check components one step a time.
1. Remove all wires at the coil except the center spark wire. Place this about 6mm from the engine block.
2. Run a new wire from battery + to coil +
3. Connect another wire to battery -. Then momentarily touch the - lug of the coil and check for spark.
If you get a spark, then you know the coil is good and you can move on to the next component test.
Don’t worry about whether the coil has a ballast resistor or not for now. It won’t make a significant difference.
1. Remove all wires at the coil except the center spark wire. Place this about 6mm from the engine block.
2. Run a new wire from battery + to coil +
3. Connect another wire to battery -. Then momentarily touch the - lug of the coil and check for spark.
If you get a spark, then you know the coil is good and you can move on to the next component test.
Don’t worry about whether the coil has a ballast resistor or not for now. It won’t make a significant difference.
