No Service Records = Red Flag? (2 Viewers)

[CameraCruiser]

Considering 100 series were $60,000+ when new, I’d imagine that there would be regular service records for them since people generally had their vehicles dealer serviced at that price point for many years. Only after moving past the first 7 years and an owner or two would records become more sparse as people started personally working on them.

I’ve been on the search, for either a ‘98-‘99 with lockers, or a 2000 with ATRAC. Oh, and what’s better? I figure ATRAC with the improved 4 pinion front diff, and add air-lockers if needed? Or are the stock lockers good enough and change the 2 pin to 4 later? (Seams valid either way)

I’ve found two ‘00s in colors I like/no rust and under 160,000 miles, but no service records in CarFax, or Toyota Service history (the VINs so exist, and picts do match), but at least one party admits to being a flipper. It just seams sketchy not having even an oil change record.

Then there is the ‘98 champagne pearl/tan interior (sorry my least favorite color), very clean, no rips tears, and all windows doors function as they should with 249,000 miles with 50 service records at regular intervals (timing belt/water pump, master brake, cyl. O2 sensors, exhaust manifolds replaced), with some brake work, and seals due - which seams legit.

I can be patient and wait for color I prefer with records, or go for the champagne (unless a service record history is no big deal if I am willing to baseline either of them).

 

[Sean9421]

Take a look at the vehicles and look for shiny new parts on them. Service history is important, but not always documented. Me and the guys I work with (in a dealership) don't write up an RO everytime we work on our own cars, so our service history probably looks horrible, but we do have a stack of receipts from parts purchased.

Also, Toyotas service history is spotty at best for anything before 2010.

 

[cwmoser]

I do my own servicing for the most part.
Would you find acceptable an owner supplied spreadsheet as suitable maintenance history?

 

[excessive]

my truck had decent records on its carfax, but since I took ownership, there wont be any showing up on carfax because i do all my own work. So it's possible they were owned by DIY'ers

 

[MongooseGA]

Toyota and Lexus both allow you to register a vin and see its dealer performed service history. Short of that, I (and most good owners/ record keepers) keep receipts and docs, even a journal, of maintenance history.

 

[MongooseGA]

I do my own servicing for the most part.
Would you find acceptable an owner supplied spreadsheet as suitable maintenance history?

Imo, this is gold when used car shopping.

 

[CameraCruiser]

I do my own servicing for the most part.
Would you find acceptable an owner supplied spreadsheet as suitable maintenance history?

Yes, a spreadsheet from an involved owner would be great. But even if a flipper bought a one owner vehicle, without records, and absence of some servicing, as a buyer, you almost have to assume that it immediately needs a timing belt/water pump at minimum.

It’s tough buying from a guy who says in the Craigslist ad that it was “cared for, well serviced, mostly garaged etc”., then admits to having bought it to flip it, and has zero records (and nothing on CarFax), and didn’t know that the hood struts were supposed to hold the hood up (just thought the support rod was missing).

So yes, a spreadsheet would be leaps better.

I may have been spoiled by two previous used cruisers that came from Southern California and large corporate Toyota dealers. When you put their VIN in, you would get 50+ pages of history with itemized service tech notes.

 

[CameraCruiser]

my truck had decent records on its carfax, but since I took ownership, there wont be any showing up on carfax because i do all my own work. So it's possible they were owned by DIY'ers

Yes, I understand that, and I would understand a number of years, with records under one owner, and then a break of records when a new owner buys it, and then it picks up sporadically for big things. But zero records is weird over 20+ years unless you find the owner that never trusts anyone else to touch their stuff, and I get that. But these guys are car flippers and don’t know there is supposed to be a rubber boot with grease in it around the CV joint (just like on the other side), and don’t understand why I’m offering them thousands less than there asking, etc.

 

[CameraCruiser]

Toyota and Lexus both allow you to register a vin and see its dealer performed service history. Short of that, I (and most good owners/ record keepers) keep receipts and docs, even a journal, of maintenance history.

Yes I have been looking at records through the owner VIN system, and having Toyota service reps confirming lack of records too.

I guess, I will stick to my gut, and between two physically similar LCs, always go with the one with records.

 

[CameraCruiser]

I buried this question within another question in another post, but it might get more eyeballs on its own.

What’s better? ATRAC with the improved 4 pinion front diff year 2000 and beyond, and add air-lockers if needed? Or are the stock lockers good enough and change the 2 pin to 4 later? (Seams valid either way).

Also, I am guessing, that if you have ATRAC, it does it’s magic up and until you press the air locker button.

Meaning that if you have an air locker in the rear, lock it for an obstacle, that ATRAC keeps working in the front (but not rear while air locked), and goes back to normal operation when unlocked. So you have the best of both worlds (if willing to pay for an air locker)?

Then getting back to the ‘98-‘99 stock locker. Is it good enough? But should you replace the front diff to 4 pin instead of the original 2 pin? Seems like you need to spend $ either way, and you get onboard air, if you go the ATRAC route, and add an air locker (if all my above operational assumptions are correct).

 

[REKCUT]

I think if you're looking at an almost 25 year old grocery getter you not going to have a lot of luck finding Mercedes style service records. In todays age most people I know dont keep service records. While it might be a nice add on to a good looking truck I sure wouldn't give it a second thought on buying a 100 series without records. Im going to trust my eyes.

 

[CameraCruiser]

I think if you're looking at an almost 25 year old grocery getter you not going to have a lot of luck finding Mercedes style service records. In todays age most people I know dont keep service records. While it might be a nice add on to a good looking truck I sure wouldn't give it a second thought on buying a 100 series without records. Im going to trust my eyes.

I don't know. I have every record for my '98 and '03 still, and I don't have either truck any more.

I kind of think the opposite of where you are coming from. These were/are Toyota's most expensive vehicle ever produced, and so figure most people at that price point had them dealer serviced, at least for the first 3 to 5 years of ownership, and then maybe started going to Jiffy Lube type places for oil changes, and local shops for tires, etc. Then they might circle back to the dealer for big things like timing belt/water pump, and suspension issues.

I think that if I am looking at an LC with 240,000 miles, it would be nice to know that it had the timing belt done between 90k and 130k, and then again at 230k, to somewhat establish that it had been cared for. If it were owner done, then at least a spreadsheet to establish milestones.

I think my take away from the people that responded, it is not a red flag to not have personal records, or a CarFax history that shows servicing (but it would certainly help).

 

[Bisho]

I buried this question within another question in another post, but it might get more eyeballs on its own.

What’s better? ATRAC with the improved 4 pinion front diff year 2000 and beyond, and add air-lockers if needed? Or are the stock lockers good enough and change the 2 pin to 4 later? (Seams valid either way).

Also, I am guessing, that if you have ATRAC, it does it’s magic up and until you press the air locker button.

Meaning that if you have an air locker in the rear, lock it for an obstacle, that ATRAC keeps working in the front (but not rear while air locked), and goes back to normal operation when unlocked. So you have the best of both worlds (if willing to pay for an air locker)?

Then getting back to the ‘98-‘99 stock locker. Is it good enough? But should you replace the front diff to 4 pin instead of the original 2 pin? Seems like you need to spend $ either way, and you get onboard air, if you go the ATRAC route, and add an air locker (if all my above operational assumptions are correct).

ATRAC is great-highly recommended and big advantage over earlier model.

 

[MongooseGA]

I buried this question within another question in another post, but it might get more eyeballs on its own.

What’s better? ATRAC with the improved 4 pinion front diff year 2000 and beyond, and add air-lockers if needed? Or are the stock lockers good enough and change the 2 pin to 4 later? (Seams valid either way).

Also, I am guessing, that if you have ATRAC, it does it’s magic up and until you press the air locker button.

Meaning that if you have an air locker in the rear, lock it for an obstacle, that ATRAC keeps working in the front (but not rear while air locked), and goes back to normal operation when unlocked. So you have the best of both worlds (if willing to pay for an air locker)?

Then getting back to the ‘98-‘99 stock locker. Is it good enough? But should you replace the front diff to 4 pin instead of the original 2 pin? Seems like you need to spend $ either way, and you get onboard air, if you go the ATRAC route, and add an air locker (if all my above operational assumptions are correct).

ATRAC is great-highly recommended and big advantage over earlier model.

I second this.

All else the same, I'd take an ATRAC 4-pinion diff truck (especially with 5 speed) over a 2-pinion factory locked (rear only) truck.

Yes, ATRAC will operate until locker is engaged. Since there's no signal of slippage between the two axles with the locker engaged, there's no trigger for ATRAC to operate. Plenty of times I've found ATRAC to be more advantageous in a situation than locking my diffs. This is especially true for the front diff. My front diff is very rarely used compared to the rear.

 

[TheBussman]

I do a lot of pre purchase inspections, always keeps me guessing I find some really nice cars with no history at all and other cars with decent history can be junk. check out the cruisers condition thoroughly before you buy, the diffs, lockers and ATRAC are important but not as important as the condition.

 

[Fairgame]

Get a compression test or check the exhaust at high revs to see smoke or misfire

 

[Exiled]

It could also be that whoever bought them was not close enough to a Toyota dealership to have them serviced there regularly? I've come across a couple of examples like that over the years here in Texas.

A few more thoughts:

I think the 2-pinion vs. 4-pinion diffs isn't a reason to pass on a really nice truck. Both of mine are '99s and I've wheeled one of them for 17 years under all kinds of conditions and across a half dozen states and never had an issue with the front diff, and she's a heavy girl running 35's on steel wheels. I'd like to upgrade to a locker up front at some point but it's never stopped me from taking the truck on our adventures.

I'd estimate that 70% or more of US UZJ100s and LX470s were sold with a tan/ivory interior, so that's going to affect your search. Limiting color selection on a 17-25 year old vehicle is another variable to your search. For unknown reasons, Toyota didn't spread the colors out evenly; some colors were super common, others weren't, so that will also impact your search. My first 100 was originally Imperial Jade Mica and I hated that color from the moment I saw it, but the truck came to me as a 1-owner vehicle out of Scottsdale, AZ, with 70K miles and in stock shape, with meticulous records all at the same Toyota dealership. Tan interior which I didn't (and still don't) love, but it was the overall condition that closed the deal. For my second 100, I was looking for an earlier (98-00) white with a gray interior and I never found one in the six month it took me to find the one I bought, another 1-owner with 124K, tan interior, stock condition, no rust and also meticulously serviced at a Toyota dealership in Boulder, CO.

If you're like me and keep the search to states with no/minimal rust, then just plan to be patient on your search. You WILL find one, it's just a matter of time and money.

 

[CameraCruiser]

It could also be that whoever bought them was not close enough to a Toyota dealership to have them serviced there regularly? I've come across a couple of examples like that over the years here in Texas.

A few more thoughts:

I think the 2-pinion vs. 4-pinion diffs isn't a reason to pass on a really nice truck. Both of mine are '99s and I've wheeled one of them for 17 years under all kinds of conditions and across a half dozen states and never had an issue with the front diff, and she's a heavy girl running 35's on steel wheels. I'd like to upgrade to a locker up front at some point but it's never stopped me from taking the truck on our adventures.

I'd estimate that 70% or more of US UZJ100s and LX470s were sold with a tan/ivory interior, so that's going to affect your search. Limiting color selection on a 17-25 year old vehicle is another variable to your search. For unknown reasons, Toyota didn't spread the colors out evenly; some colors were super common, others weren't, so that will also impact your search. My first 100 was originally Imperial Jade Mica and I hated that color from the moment I saw it, but the truck came to me as a 1-owner vehicle out of Scottsdale, AZ, with 70K miles and in stock shape, with meticulous records all at the same Toyota dealership. Tan interior which I didn't (and still don't) love, but it was the overall condition that closed the deal. For my second 100, I was looking for an earlier (98-00) white with a gray interior and I never found one in the six month it took me to find the one I bought, another 1-owner with 124K, tan interior, stock condition, no rust and also meticulously serviced at a Toyota dealership in Boulder, CO.

If you're like me and keep the search to states with no/minimal rust, then just plan to be patient on your search. You WILL find one, it's just a matter of time and money.

 

[CameraCruiser]

I think you’re correct on all points, especially for me. I’ll never intentionally boulder the rig, or go on roads that require spotters. It’ll be for accessing remote sites safely, getting me through a tough spot, some mud, and for now, rarely snow or ice. Realistically a Subaru meets most these needs and gets better gas mileage too, but it is not a Land Cruiser.

I owned a ‘98 (river rock mica with grey interior - loved), and as you said, it never failed me. I never even knew about it’s two pin limitation until becoming a member here.

Like you, not a fan of the tan, but it works best with Imperial Jade Mica, my second favorite color, next to Atlantis Blue Mica. So colors are subjective, but I know every color with a clear coat is going to oxidize and fail (sigh) - which leaves white that shines up nicely and hides most trail induced Baja pin-stripping.

I also had an ‘03 with ATRAC, and it never seemed to do better or worse than my ‘98 (other than the nav system failure), so there’s that.

I’m probably good with any pre nav equipped LCs that appear to be well taken care of that make me smile when I see it. Service records, and timing belt/water pump done in the last few thousands of mile/years will be a bonus.

 

[jlm43]

The thing with buying a used vehicle is that you don't know if it's truly a good deal for at least a couple years of trouble free driving.

Since it's somewhat on topic, here's a "what if" scenario for folks to consider.

I'm currently looking for a 2013 to 2015 LX with under 100k miles. Like the OP, I'm very particular on color since my 100 is still going strong and I'm not in any dire need to purchase soon.

I found a one owner 2015 with 105k miles and an impeccable service history. As in, the service history is almost too good. It has over 50+ entries in the Lexus owners site and they are all from the dealer that sold the vehicle when it was new. All maintenance is up to date but what worries me is that both bumpers have been replaced at different times, one front fender might have been replaced or maybe repaired, and the windshield has been replaced 2 or 3 times. Rims aren't awful but definitely have a lot of rash on them. No damage history on Carfax, all the work was performed by the selling dealer. Numerous entries of getting it detailed to make sure it was spotless.

So I'm asking myself, was this LX just a city rig with an owner that was OCD about scratches and gave the dealer an open checkbook? Or was he / she rough on the equipment but wanted it to look pretty and I'm going to end up replacing a lot of parts prematurely? Is it worth the 1 owner with full dealership maintenance premium price?

Okay, so maybe it isn't completely on topic. But it does go along with the idea of what things can be overlooked and what things shouldn't be.