Next (non Toyota) diesel swap?

[HDJdreams]

“5. Sadly price matters.”

Sadly, nothing else in your post matters if this does. The common rail 3.9L (new version of the 4BT basically) might fit the bill. Still uses plenty of already available parts, etc.

What I meant by #5 is that I figure an R2.8 swap would cost in the ballpark of $20k, using a newer 6 or 8 speed tranny and doing most of the work in my garage. (Cut and weld yes, machining no).

I am not going to $20k of pain for a motor with just “adequate” torque or excessive NVH that drives me nuts on the freeway. If the R3.8 was available for a similar price point as R2.8, I would be all for the swap. (Before the R2.8 was released as a crate motor, Bruiser Conversions did a few 3.8 swaps, they said it was a much smoother motor than 3.9, more compact too.)

Now that diesels are coming to 1/2 tons, hopefully someone will figure out how to do the ECU and wiring so we can swap them in similar to LS swaps.

My personal preference is 400+ ft-lbs and relatively smooth and quiet. Having said that, I have driven a Sprinter and been amazed at how well that little motor moves it.

Love to see you guys do the swap!

 

[Delta VS]

What I meant by #5 is that I figure an R2.8 swap would cost in the ballpark of $20k, using a newer 6 or 8 speed tranny and doing most of the work in my garage. (Cut and weld yes, machining no).

I am not going to $20k of pain for a motor with just “adequate” torque or excessive NVH that drives me nuts on the freeway. If the R3.8 was available for a similar price point as R2.8, I would be all for the swap. (Before the R2.8 was released as a crate motor, Bruiser Conversions did a few 3.8 swaps, they said it was a much smoother motor than 3.9, more compact too.)

Now that diesels are coming to 1/2 tons, hopefully someone will figure out how to do the ECU and wiring so we can swap them in similar to LS swaps.

My personal preference is 400+ ft-lbs and relatively smooth and quiet. Having said that, I have driven a Sprinter and been amazed at how well that little motor moves it.

Love to see you guys do the swap!

So something like this? A common rail 4BT, what I was mentioning above. I have heard some pretty great things about them.

 

[Mr Cimarron]

So something like this? A common rail 4BT, what I was mentioning above. I have heard some pretty great things about them.

View attachment 1872670

ISB 170. Should be the smaller brother of the 5.9 ISB. They also made a 4.5L ISB.

 

[Dirty Koala]

ISB 170. Should be the smaller brother of the 5.9 ISB. They also made a 4.5L ISB.

Cruiser Inovations has put an QSB 4.5 into an FJ40, I would like to see someone put one in an 80 and tune it up a bit.

 

[Delta VS]

Cruiser Inovations has put an QSB 4.5 into an FJ40, I would like to see someone put one in an 80 and tune it up a bit.

YES, me too

 

[Mr Cimarron]

I still love mechanical but electronically controlled diesels are the present and future.

 

[bugsnbikes]

Om606 is easily swapped over to fully mechanical with the 603 pump and can be tuned from 200hp/300hp up to 300/400hp real easy and is still detuned quite a bit from what that modern Merc can make. 3.0liter vs 2.1 will bring in torque @1200rpm vs 1600rpm of the 2.1 liter.

those real small displacement 2.1 liter motors need sequential turbo setups and all that wiring -not super ideal for offroad environments compared to an all mechanical modern 3.O liter.

Where thwt torque curve lays for offroad is what most people find less than ideal trying the om617 even in lighter weight 40series. The om650 is fairly close torque and hp curve to the turned up om617's......which can make some good power -just in a more car friendly rpm range. Those old merc sedans were pretty heavy vehicles and the sprinters are 500lbs more than an 80.....so all those engines are fine spinning and pushing those weights at highway speeds/3000rpm range where mercedes designed them to operate.

For expo tyoe vehicles thwt arent spending a ton of time off idle rock crawlin. Probably okay

 

[mountaingoat59]

OK, the Sprinter engine / trans combo is good. I did lots of driving in a 2013 (2.1L) often loaded with 1,000+ lbs of wood products. Good smooth acceleration at all times. Well sorted powertrain with the transmission being the real star.

However what I really want to see is a BMW M57 conversion. I have to give credit to @Dragos80 for being the one to bring this motor to my attention. I have no idea how to make the swap happen, but there are dozens of Patrols running the M57 now.



Speaking of the m57 swap, there is a shop called Tune my euro that put one in a chevy C10 pickup and he's thinking of making a plug n play harness to make it much easier to transplant the m57. I occasionally see used m57's for sale on the facebook group "north american bmw diesel" for 2-3k and tune my euro has motors as well. A tuned all stock m57 puts out about 300 hp and even that would be a big improvement.
I can't imagine 800 hp

 

[Dragos80]

300HP at the wheel for my car on a mild tune which is about 350HP at the crank.
Some more aggressive tunes go to 360-380 on stock turbos.
Replacing the turbos gets you to 400HP.

 

[mountaingoat59]

300HP at the wheel for my car on a mild tune which is about 350HP at the crank.
Some more aggressive tunes go to 360-380 on stock turbos.
Replacing the turbos gets you to 400HP.

Yes, good point. There are different tunes available. I got just the stock tune and deleted the dpf because 300 even in a 335d is way more than i need. In an 80 series reliability out on the trail would be my priority. You couldn't use the awesome ZF auto box. You'de have to use the toyota auto unless you put in a divorced transfer case. There are also first gen iron m57's that are way simpler and way cheaper but only 1 turbo and a dime a dozen in europe. Those first gen are what seem to be the bulk of all the m57 transplants into pajero's, nissan patrols and land rovers that i see on youtube. You can buy those from europe for $2k shipped to the usa. Search ebay for bmw 306d1 or bmw 306d2

 

[Dragos80]

I was wondering about mating the tranny with the transfer case.
Most, if not all, swaps I saw on YT kept the car's transmission (manual or auto).

It's kinda a bummer if one has to keep the Toyota transmission. It is the first thing I don't like on my 80. I really wish we had a 5 or 6 speed swap available.

 

[mountaingoat59]

I was wondering about mating the tranny with the transfer case.
Most, if not all, swaps I saw on YT kept the car's transmission (manual or auto).

It's kinda a bummer if one has to keep the Toyota transmission. It is the first thing I don't like on my 80. I really wish we had a 5 or 6 speed swap available.

You could probably use the toyota H151F 5 Speed Manual Transmission (expensive) and build an adapter to mate to the m57. This photo is from a shop in croatia i believe. He makes adapters. This one is mating a m57 to a nissan patrol manual trans and installing it into a jeep cherokee. His adapter looks pretty simple.

 

[Dragos80]

There is a Polish company selling full kits for Patrols.
I found them on eBay a while ago for $12k (used engine)
The engine and the adapter alone should be well below that level.

But if I have to use the Toyota transmission then it's a no go for me. It's what I hate the most about my 80.

 

[mountaingoat59]

There is a Polish company selling full kits for Patrols.
I found them on eBay a while ago for $12k (used engine)
The engine and the adapter alone should be well below that level.

But if I have to use the Toyota transmission then it's a no go for me. It's what I hate the most about my 80.

heck for that price or just a little more, i could get a jdm imported 90's patrol with a 6 cylinder diesel already in it. What i can't believe is the price of the 5 speed manual trans for the 80 series. 5 grand? holy smokes. I see the engine and gearbox being sold on yahoo japan auctions for 1600 usd for both. Maybe i should buy a trans in japan and stuff it in the suitcase next time i go. I realize they must have to modify the shifter gate for LHD but wow. I'm an extreme budget kind of guy and like to piece everything together. A couple years ago i built an m57 out of ebay used parts and a blown usa motor for 3k. I shipped from europe a used crank, block and 1 piston and swapped everything else over from my blown motor. At the time used m57's 306d5 twin turbo's were much more expensive. Its been 12k miles and its still running good. For me the toyota auto box would work with a 300 hp m57. Surely it would hold together. Its not a crazy amount of extra torque being added with an m57 over the stock gasser and i think i could do it for under 6k using the toyota auto. Surely there must be a good shift kit out there to firm up shifts.

 

[Dragos80]

480 lb-ft torque on mine.

I really hate the gearing on the LC and it's made worse by the preset shift points.
Turning at an intersection at low speed you have to floor it in order to downshift because otherwise the TCU sets it in 3rd gear and it barely crawls out of the turn., Take OD out, press PWR. It's pretty bad in the city.

If you tow some weight going from 1st to 2nd there is such a huge drop in gearing that the engine almost stalls.
Going uphill forget about it if you don't floor it in 2nd.