New Style Man-a-Fre Headers and a Desmog later....

[chitown40]

I usually drill out the idle-mixture screw when I rebuild as I've found that I needed to make a few small adjustments to the mixture after the rebuild.

As far as your power-drop off over 45mph, check your secondary on the carb and make sure it is opening.

 

[chris777]

I am curious to know why the "new style Headers" are called "new style".

I bought my headers from Man-A-Fre in 2002 and I love them. They were tuned, smog approved, came with the TOYOTA OEM gasket, had a laser cut flange, were two piece, and were hot jet coated inside and out. I haven't had the lightest problem with them in 6 years. They show no signs of rust. I do have them retorqued every couple of years. But I am a big fan of them and highly recommend them. Also bought the heat riser option and the cold weather starts are easy. The were $350 6 years ago, glad I didn't go the cheap route, though.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I usually drill out the idle-mixture screw when I rebuild as I've found that I needed to make a few small adjustments to the mixture after the rebuild.

As far as your power-drop off over 45mph, check your secondary on the carb and make sure it is opening.

I might go back and try tuning the idle mixture screw then. I'm pretty happy with how it runs now, so it's probably going to be a while, but I'll do it. Thanks for the tip!!

As for the lack of power over 45, it seems to have gone away after putting some miles on it. Not sure if I'm just noticing it less, but either way I don't feel it anymore. Wierd, right?

I am curious to know why the "new style Headers" are called "new style".

I bought my headers from Man-A-Fre in 2002 and I love them. They were tuned, smog approved, came with the TOYOTA OEM gasket, had a laser cut flange, were two piece, and were hot jet coated inside and out. I haven't had the lightest problem with them in 6 years. They show no signs of rust. I do have them retorqued every couple of years. But I am a big fan of them and highly recommend them. Also bought the heat riser option and the cold weather starts are easy. The were $350 6 years ago, glad I didn't go the cheap route, though.

The difference between your headers and mine is that your set has two separate collectors that requires a y-pipe after them to make a single tailpipe. While yours as well as mine have the same two-piece flange, my headers come down into a single collector, eliminating the need for a y-pipe.

 

[fliphkd778]

I liked what you did so much, I'm going to follow. I'm ordering a pair of maf headers tomorrow.
Also rebuilt a spare cylinder head for a little refreshment.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Wow! A little more involved than my project, but I can guarantee that you'll love the results.

Three things though, while you have the head off, tap and plug the oil galley plug in the head. I forget what size tap fits in there, but there are a ton of threads on it. Secondly, when you're putting the headers in, hang them on the two manifold studs so that you can get those two small manifold bolts threaded first. Those little bastards made it difficult to get the manifolds on the first time I did this. Finally, the headers won't fit unless you take the EGR system completely out. The cooler is too big and interferes.

Other than that, good luck and keep us posted!!

 

[fliphkd778]

Read my mind; I was just going to ask about that cooler...
Excellent tips, much appreciated, I'll probably post up on the manifold when it comes in.
Does anyone remember the torque for the manifold studs/bolts?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

50 ft/lbs (California spec, but can't hurt with the headers), but do you remember the pattern?

 

[fliphkd778]

I didn't think there was a pattern, I was just going to alternate

 

[chris777]

The difference between your headers and mine is that your set has two separate collectors that requires a y-pipe after them to make a single tailpipe. While yours as well as mine have the same two-piece flange, my headers come down into a single collector, eliminating the need for a y-pipe.

I am of the opinion that you are placing way too much importance on that single collector. what is wrong with using a y-pipe if it works?

You are overlooking more important differences. The tuned ceramic headers by ManAFre that I have been running for 6 years are better in the following ways than your "new style header":

1. they are tuned (equal exhuast pressure in each pipe)

2. they are hot jet coated with ceramics inside and out. Mine have no signs of any rust after 6 years. they are still pretty.

3. mine came with the Toyota OEM gasket

4. mine has the heat riser option that allows for easy cold starts. (but perhaps yours does too.

5. I still like the idea of a true two piece header. Wouldn't it more likely mate perfectly with the head? I can't say for sure, but the above 4 reasons are enough for me.

The only downside is that they cost over $550 today with the heat riser and the y-pipe (plus delivery).

so, by "New Style Headers", you mean that these are the new style inexpensive and inferior headers. these are the ones I bought MAF Tuned Ceramic Coated Headers F and 2F Engines

I don't see what you are placing so much importance on mine needing a Y-pipe. I think the best thing about the "new style headers" is that they have borrowed the flange design of the headers I bought from them. It is thick. Doesn't say laser cut, but at least its thick. I think that is the most important design change of the new style headers.

If you are expecting more power and fuel economy it willl be so small you won' notice it. I went with these headers because I was sick of developing exhaust leaks with that inferior design of the factory exhaust manifold/header. I haven't had an exhaust leak since. Mine have been trouble free. I just make sure that they are re-torqued every 18 months or so.

I don't think that headers are something you want to save money on, because if you do, it could end up costing you a lot more time, money and hassle in the long run.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I am of the opinion that you are placing way too much importance on that single collector. what is wrong with using a y-pipe if it works?

You are overlooking more important differences. The tuned ceramic headers by ManAFre that I have been running for 6 years are better in the following ways than your "new style header":

1. they are tuned (equal exhuast pressure in each pipe)

2. they are hot jet coated with ceramics inside and out. Mine have no signs of any rust after 6 years. they are still pretty.

3. mine came with the Toyota OEM gasket

4. mine has the heat riser option that allows for easy cold starts. (but perhaps yours does too.

5. I still like the idea of a true two piece header. Wouldn't it more likely mate perfectly with the head? I can't say for sure, but the above 4 reasons are enough for me.

The only downside is that they cost over $550 today with the heat riser and the y-pipe (plus delivery).

so, by "New Style Headers", you mean that these are the new style inexpensive and inferior headers. these are the ones I bought MAF Tuned Ceramic Coated Headers F and 2F Engines

I don't see what you are placing so much importance on mine needing a Y-pipe. I think the best thing about the "new style headers" is that they have borrowed the flange design of the headers I bought from them. It is thick. Doesn't say laser cut, but at least its thick. I think that is the most important design change of the new style headers.

If you are expecting more power and fuel economy it willl be so small you won' notice it. I went with these headers because I was sick of developing exhaust leaks with that inferior design of the factory exhaust manifold/header. I haven't had an exhaust leak since. Mine have been trouble free. I just make sure that they are re-torqued every 18 months or so.

I don't think that headers are something you want to save money on, because if you do, it could end up costing you a lot more time, money and hassle in the long run.

I didn't mean to say that mine were better than yours, because they're not! Mine are called the new style headers, in my opinion, because they are the newer base line header.

If you want to talk about saving money, then I won't participate because they were a present. I can tell you that mine was rigid, however allowed for a tiny amount of flex which should be fine. Let's be honest, the head on our 2f's aren't exactly bending like waves.

The y-pipe is a minimal difference, but one more step that needs to be taken. It's not major at all.

As for power, probably no difference, but efficiency, ABSOLUTELY! 14.5 mpg city driving? That's better than the EPA rated our trucks to get in the 80's.

Now that you're done putting my recent upgrades below your own, have anything else to say?

 

[chris777]

no, I don't have anything else to say, except that I am sorry for putting down your upgrade and starting a pissing contest. I just didn't think that you realized all the bennefits of the more expensive header. A header that I feel is actually going to be cheaper in the long haul. But it is wise on your part not to look a gift horse in the mouth. I think it would do well for all others to get the ceramic coated one though.

One more thing... how are you getting 14.5? I am lucky to get 14 on the highway with 33x9.5 tires and a 5 speed! what were you getting before the header?

 

[fliphkd778]

Now I need mud more than ever. Maf just called, the headers are on weeks worth of back order. Since I pulled all the smog out, I'd like to do headers while I've got the head off.
Does anyone know of any other options?

 

[FJ40Jim]

Headers can also be purchased from mark's offroad or downey.

Chris, on the MPG, are you factoring in the odometer error for the 33" tires? If not, you may actually be getting 15.9 instead of 14.0.

 

[chris777]

Hi Jim, yes, I am factoring that in. I believe it is something like a 17 percent difference.

it has been 6 years since you rebuilt my carb, though. Wonder if I might be due for another rebuild??? how can I tell?

what do you charge these days?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I'm getting 14.5 city with stock 60 series gearing and 33" BFG AT's. I calculate a 15% difference into my tank, and that's what I get! I recently got 16.5 on the highway, which I was psyched about.

As for where else to get headers, I was going to buy a downy set, but some new MAF ones landed under my X-mas tree, so I was happy! Here's the downy page to get a head start...

Downey Off-Road Exhaust Headers

 

[chris777]

fliphkd778 are you saying that the inexpensive $199 MAF headers are out of stock, or the superior $399 MAF ones that I have been running trouble free for 6 years are out of stock?

GLTHFJ60, and you don't even have a 5 speed. Do you think you are getting such great gas mileage because you desmogged your truck? that must be it right? I am envious!

 

[Zack1978]

I'm getting 14.5 city with stock 60 series gearing and 33" BFG AT's. I calculate a 15% difference into my tank, and that's what I get! I recently got 16.5 on the highway, which I was psyched about.

As for where else to get headers, I was going to buy a downy set, but some new MAF ones landed under my X-mas tree, so I was happy! Here's the downy page to get a head start...

Downey Off-Road Exhaust Headers

It looks like Downey does not make a header for the 60?

 

[fliphkd778]

Called around, maf is out of their new style like the ones glthfj60 is running. I spoke with mark's offroad, he has three headers left, $270 a piece. Downey's are around $325 iirc for chrome, and $370 for ceramic. Money's sort of tight and I'm in a bit of a time crunch, so I went with some jt outfitters for $159. Another member here is running the jt outfitter's, photos under the thread "my desmog." I spoke with their tech, and they sound alright. American made, supposed to feature easier access to clutch, etc. I was disappointed that the flange is a single piece as opposed to maf's two. I've heard the double flange helps stop leakages.

 

[chris777]

you should have gotten the ceramic MAF. The thing that is going to cost you is the fact that cheap headers are going to rust a lot sooner (paint just does NOT hold up and even chrome pales in comparison to ceramic), and they are going to leak a lot sooner. And all of them are very expensive to have taken out and re-installed (or take a lot of effort to install them). So you are going to spend less now, but a lot more (time and money) in the long run.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Hi Jim,
it has been 6 years since you rebuilt my carb, though. Wonder if I might be due for another rebuild??? how can I tell?
what do you charge these days?

Warning: hijack in progress!
Things to check: float level in the sight glass- too high or low, failed accel boot or sticky accel plunger. Otherwise, I recommend going through a carb every 10 years or 100K miles as PM.
$300.

This ends the hijacking. Enjoy the rest of your flight!