85 60 full desmog, sniper, & tuned headers - questions and progress (3 Viewers)

[DrRock]

I have the sniper temp sensor on the block and the factory sensor in the stock location. My stock gauge is quite reliable. This setup has served me well and bear in mind that based on my findings the block drain sensor ends up being worse case based on my monitoring and checking with an IR gun. I recently drove my truck from NYC to Flagstaff, AZ in all kinds of conditions and saw 218F on the sniper gauge a few times making long climbs in the Rockies with ambient temps in the high 70's. Truck was fully loaded (2 people, camp gear, roof top tent etc). I checked the head and radiator with the IR gun when the temp hit these highs and highest temp was 200 on the head.

Moral of the story, you might see some high readings on your factory gauge with the sensor located on the block drain.

 

[icrashalot]

Def watching this because I want to do the same to my 60.

 

[brownjeans]

Mine is in the thermostat housing since I deleted the smog stuff.

I also deleted the smog. I may remove one of the plugs in the housing and move mine to this location if the block drain plug location has a problem. The only reason I think it might have a problem is because the wire is pretty close to the headers I've put on it. I put heat sheilding on the wire and tried to secure the wire clear of the headers, but you never know.
Redline seems to make a modified thermostat housing with a dedicated temp sender bung welded into it. Pretty clean looking, but also over $300 so not sure it's worthwhile if the only benefit is cosmetic.

 

[brownjeans]

Okay. So here are some observations and timps so far. Not everyone is going to need to do all the things I've done, some will do even more I suspect.
I removed all the smog stuff, the intake and exhaust manifolds. I removed all the water hoses by the firewall (for heaters) and radiator.
I removed the thermostat housing (top and bottom)
I removed the valve cover.
I removed the alternator (to help access things)
I removed the charcoal canister and all vacuum lines.
I removed the oil cooler hoses
Basically, all the rubber water hoses will be new.

Stuff I bought (from SOR, TLC Performance, Cruiser Outfitters, Mosely, City Racer, Man-a-Fre, Redline)
Rubber water hoses
Wire hose clamps
Delco charcoal canister
Mosely sniper kit with sniper
Redline themp sender adapter
De-smog kit (air injection plugs etc.)
Y-pipe (to go with tuned headers I've had for a while)
Heat riser blocking plate
manifold gasket, riser blocking plate gasket, smog delete gasket (remflex kit)
new manifold mounting hardware
Other misc things on amazon (wire connectors, heat shilding, hose clamps, gates heater hoses, vacuum lines.

Observations
Mosely kit does not include everything you need - even for the basics. It also has NO instructions. I find this to be frustrating. It's and expensive kit - I think some guidance should be included. Maybe provide a card with a QR code to a webpage that they could update as needed? I know applications differ, but some explaination of how to use what is included and why would be good. I have NO idea how to use the throttle cable brackets and provided throttle cable. Throttle cable is the thing that is difficult for me at the moment. so maybe I'm feeling edgy about this at the moment.

Fuel lines. There are two hard lines coming out the top of the tank close to the passenger side frame rail. The one closest to the frame is the fuel pickup. The one closer to the middle of the truck (by an inch) is the return line.
I removed the hard fuel lines on the frame so that I could mount the filters and pump and run rubber fuel lines instad. Mosely kit was two hose clamps short for running fuel tubing. So now there is only the brake line and the hard vent line from the charcoal canister on my frame.
If using external in-line pumps and filters, there isn't room to mount all these items on the frame and still use the hard lines. I imagine that if you use an internal tank pump you can re-use the hard lines instead of removing them. Internal is probably a cleaner install. More durable too - but you'll have to drop the talk and modify it if that's the way you go.
One sad point just for me and my truck but something to check for everyone: I discovered that my frame is really rusted in the back. Above the very back pasenger leaf spring mount, the frame is pinching under the pressure of the spring. I guess I have a decision to make in the future. I either need to find a pretty rust-free 60 and transfer a lot of the updates I've made on my truck to that truck, or get a rust-free frame and swap that in to my truck. Both are a ton of work and both are probably expensive... Super bummed about this find. For the time being, I'm going to just drive and ignore.

Intake setup. I have the intake manifold, then the stock carb riser/sheild, then the adapter plate, then the sniper. That's three transitions but the kit only has one gasket (for between the adapter plate and sniper). So you should source two other gaskets (or Mosely should include two more in their kit).
TIP: When mounting the sniper, I found it hard to line up the Mosely-provided hard line and get it to thread on. So I took the sniper off, connected the hard line, then mounted the sniper to the intake. This worked better.

Throttle cable setup is really a challenge. Do you set it up to pull toward the firewall from the top of the sniper, or toward the radiator from the bottom of the sniper? I've seen both. Here's the thing. I have no idea what Mosely intended with their provided brackets and cable. It was not intuitive. Super frustrating. I don't know what I'm going to do to solve this. So far, this is the most difficult part of the setup. You have to come up with a way to block the cable housing on the firewall so the pedal can pull the cable up and the housing stays fixed, and you have to come up with a way to block the cable housing either on the intake manifold or sniper or brake booster so the cable can span from there to the sniper throttle actuator. It also needs to be able to pull at an agle and distance to fully actuate the throttle and not cause the cable to wear and break. Not sure what I'm going to do. I'll update when I get it working.

Wiring: The connectors are straight forward. The wires: Yellow to coil negative. Red to battery positive. Black to battery negative. Blue to fuel pump positive. Fuel pump negative to the frame (you need to source a peice of wire to ground your fuel pump - can probably use a trimming from the sniper black to battery negative wire). Pink wire... This needs to be connected to a wire that turns hot when the key is in the "ACC" or "ON" position and stays hot when the starter is engaged. I found the wire on the six-pin ignition connector that does this, but I'm not sure how I want to connect the wire to it. I may do some testing and see if I can find another option. I'll update when I figure this out.

Question:
Has anyone ordered things from vintageteqparts.com? I placed an order with them and it says it's shipped (back on Sept. 8), but when I click the tracking number USPS says they haven't received it from the vendor yet. I've emailed vintageteqparts.com twice and have no response.

 

[Skreddy]

Pics on their website show a long cable looping around to pull from the bottom of the throttle arm, toward the radiator. I set my 40 up to pull from top, toward firewall. It actually looks like the throttle arm on bottom is longer which might be nice. I added a bracket onto my throttle arm for a longer throw because otherwise it was like an on/off switch.
The throttle cable should be able to be trimmed though so you can decide how you want to run it for your setup.

As for your order you haven’t gotten (I hope nov 8 was a typo….), look at the bad sellers threads in classifieds, then decide a course of action.

 

[brownjeans]

Pics on their website show a long cable looping around to pull from the bottom of the throttle arm, toward the radiator. I set my 40 up to pull from top, toward firewall. It actually looks like the throttle arm on bottom is longer which might be nice. I added a bracket onto my throttle arm for a longer throw because otherwise it was like an on/off switch.
The throttle cable should be able to be trimmed though so you can decide how you want to run it for your setup.

As for your order you haven’t gotten (I hope nov 8 was a typo….), look at the bad sellers threads in classifieds, then decide a course of action.

Thanks for the response. Yeah I meant Sept 8. I can't find the sellers thread or classifieds thread. There's sooo much content on mud, I honestly can't find stuff I want to find half the time unless google finds it for me. (Edit - nevermind, I found it... wish I would have known this before . Well it wasn't a big order )

The bracket in my Mosely kit isn't the same as the photos on their website. My cable has a pin end and a ball/socket end. I was planning to put the ball socket on the sniper throttle arm and the pin on the pedal in the stock location (removing the ball from the stock pedal. What did you do? Can you post a pick of the firewall side of your throttle cable setup? Did you attach to pedal where the ball for the linkage is or did you drill a hole in the firewall and attach to the top of the pedal arm (where a hand throttle is supposed to attach)?

 

[Skreddy]

Thanks for the response. Yeah I meant Sept 8. I can't find the sellers thread or classifieds thread. There's sooo much content on mud, I honestly can't find stuff I want to find half the time unless google finds it for me.

The bracket in my Mosely kit isn't the same as the photos on their website. My cable has a pin end and a ball/socket end. I was planning to put the ball socket on the sniper throttle arm and the pin on the pedal in the stock location (removing the ball from the stock pedal. What did you do? Can you post a pick of the firewall side of your throttle cable setup? Did you attach to pedal where the ball for the linkage is or did you drill a hole in the firewall and attach to the top of the pedal arm (where a hand throttle is supposed to attach)?

Mine was on my 40 so it was already a cable setup from the factory, I just had to change the cable end.

The ball end does go on the sniper. I made my own bracket that holds the cable sheath.

 

[brownjeans]

Mine was on my 40 so it was already a cable setup from the factory, I just had to change the cable end.

The ball end does go on the sniper. I made my own bracket that holds the cable sheath.

View attachment 3996090

Looks super clean. So the metal bit running under the sniper wires toward the valve cover - does that go to the other sniper bolt/nut to secure your bracket?

 

[Skreddy]

Looks super clean. So the metal bit running under the sniper wires toward the valve cover - does that go to the other sniper bolt/nut to secure your bracket?

Correct. That way the bracket won’t torque/move under pressure from the cable sheath.

On their site, one pic of the install shows what looks like a black bracket that’d hold that cable end. Looks like there’s also a chrome-ish bracket that’s being used as the throttle return spring bracket. (These could be same, just black in one pic). You can use that spring bracket for the throttle cable as it has a hole in it for the cable to pass through and secure the sheath. It only mounts off 1 stud bolt and has a set screw to align it and keep it from moving. Those brackets should work fine in a cruiser application where you aren’t mashing the throttle. I had one on my Chevelle and bent the bracket from “aggressive pedal syndrome”….

 

[Skreddy]

This thread shows some of the cable adapting.

P

Thread 'FJ60 Holley Sniper Conversion'

Sep 12, 2020

Took the old Weber off this weekend and got the Sniper EFI on and it pretty unbelievable the difference it makes. Outside of an engine rebuild I don't know what else could make that big of a difference.

Here are some of the pics.

Fuel system schematic

Stock fuel lines on FJ60 are set up with return line on top and feed line on bottom. Looking down the fuel line from the engine to the fuel tank the return line is on the right side of the line coming out of the tank.

I mounted the fuel pump using one the stock fuel line screw holes below the...

• plippert
• Replies: 83
• Forum: 60-Series Wagons

• 
• 

 

[brownjeans]

This shows the bracket that came with my Mosley kit. So far I've mounted the ball and socket end to the sniper throttle arm like the photo shows. I used discarded intake stud, screwed it into the intake manifold and put the bracket on it and mounted the cable to it.

This is less than ideal because the ball and socket is mounted inside the throttle arm and I'd prefer it were outside to have a lower risk of it binding or having some other kind of mechanical interference. So I think I'm going to need to change this.

The other problem, and maybe more difficult to resolve, is the firewall side. Here is what I've done (that doesn't work).

I trimmed the heat shield that sits below where the brake pedal penetrates the firewall. Added a rivnut and mounted a threaded rubber stand-off thing and bolted the second bracket to that. Problem is when I push the pedal the rubber bush allows the bracket to twist. So it's useless. So I'm going to need to fab some other bracket solution here. I think I'll do some CAD (cardboard aided design) to mock something up and then see what I have around that I can bend, drill and bolt together.

I've already cut my cable short to accommodate a firewall-side throttle arm actuation and installation. I like that concept better than the radiator side setup. But if I can't get it to work and have to buy a new cable to do the loop, I guess I'll do that.

 

[Skreddy]

Are both brackets the same? The one bolted to the intake should be rotated 90 degrees and it will use one of the studs/bolts that holds the throttle body to the adapter, with it flipped so that the tab the cable passes through is closest to the firewall, if that makes sense. The angle you have it now is not going to work well. You want the cable to be in as straight of an arc as possible to what the throttle arm will do.
Here is a pic of redline’s version. I’m not a fan of their throttle body side bracket either; looks like it will pull down the same way your current setup will.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/dsc03884-scaled-webp.2775765/

 

[brownjeans]

Yes, both brackets are the same.
When the pedal is depressed, the part of the pedal that extends through the firewall moves up, parallel to the firewall. So if the bracket is positioned so that it points toward the sniper throttle arm, pushing the pedal won't actually shorten the cable, it will only cause it to pivot at an agle. Here's a rough drawing:

Now, the throttle pedal has two levers on it. The one that extends through the firewall that moves up and down, and another inside the firewall that moves forward and back. In stock configuration the arm that forward and back is for the dash-mounted hand throttle option. I've seen sniper setups where someone has used a step drill, put a hole in the firewall and attached the cable to the top of the hand-throttle pedal arm. This setup doesn't need a bracket, it only reques a mod to the pedal arm, or aquisition of a clip, to connect the cable to it. I guess I could do that.

Up by the sniper throttle arm. I think I tried mountung the bracket like you suggest (on the sniper bolt closest to the arm) but it seemed too close, or not long enough (not extending far enough toward the fender). I can't recall. I'll take a look at that again and see.

Honestly, I wonder if I'm making this harder than I need to. Maybe if I just mount the bracket like you say and put the cable straight through the firewall and onto the hand-throttle arm everything will be fine. It would certainly be a simpler setup.

 

[Skreddy]

I meant the bracket currently mounted on the intake. Where it is you’ll be pulling through the middle of the arm arc instead of pulling across the edge of the arc, if that makes sense?
Here’s my 40, with a fairly flat path (made the cable bracket before I installed the throttle lever arm or it’d have been raised a little higher). The second pic has a telescoping magnet to show the path it looks like your current setup will go.

 

[brownjeans]

Okay. Yes, my current EFI throttle arm setup is lower than yours - not quite as low as the magnet, but probably still lower than it should be. And I don't love that it's lining up in a way that requires me to put the ball and socket on the inside of the throttle arm. I'll try mounting the provided bracket and see where it lines up. If it doesn't work, I think I can fab a bracket similar to yours without too much pain.

The firewall one is another story.

 

[brownjeans]

Okay, I've made two brackets and mounted my throttle cable. Seems to be working well. Only question is whether the cable is taking too tight a turn to mount on the bracket on the sniper (it's very close to the brake booster). If the cramped geometry causes trouble, I will make a new bracket that provides the cable with relief from the booster and then put an extension on the sniper throttle arm (because moving the cable forward to clear the booster will likely move the cable too close to the sniper to get full range of motion).

Here's the bracket by the pedal:

and here's the bracket by the sniper:

The firewall bracket is mounted using the existing bolt and nut that holds the heat shield. I had to remove the heat shield and trim off part of it to make room for the bracket. The other side of the bolt is mounted using a stud (sourced from either a spare removed from the old carb/intake setup, or it could be a stud from the wheel hub that I had sitting around. I played with both. They are the same size and thread, but the length is a bit different on each). I mounted this stud by drilling a hole through the firewall and mounting a rivnut. I drilled the hold from inside. Where the steering column passes through the firewall, there is an extra layer of reinforcement. Below the steering column there is a circle cut into that reinforcement so it is't double thick there. I drilled the hole in the center of that circle, then mounted the rivnut from the engine side of the firewall..

 

[brownjeans]

Okay. I've got everything done. Won't start.
I updated the sniper firmware, went through the inital setup with the wizard.
When I turn the key the screen goes through it's initial startup, the fuel pump runs for a couple seconds. From the way things are functioning, I think it's wired properly.
When cranking, the AFR number is red and 35.6. I think this means it's not getting any fuel. So, question - if I connect a totally empty fuel line to the fuel pump (just air), can/will the pump pull fuel from the tank and push it to the sniper?

 

[Skreddy]

Loosen the fuel line connection at the sniper unit; cycle key (have a helper do this and ready to turn off): do you get fuel out of the fitting?


Do you have enough gas in the tank?

 

[icrashalot]

Yeah def open the line at the carb like skreddy suggested. If there's no fuel, then check the output port of the pump. Fuel=pump working and the lines need to be bled of air to the carb. No fuel=pick up problem, pump wired backwards, major air leak, or faulty pump (unlikely if new).

 

[brownjeans]

Loosen the fuel line connection at the sniper unit; cycle key (have a helper do this and ready to turn off): do you get fuel out of the fitting?


Do you have enough gas in the tank?

Thanks for the response.
There's about 3 gallons in the tank.
I'll try loosening line connections to see of there is fuel getting to the sniper tomorrow.