New LX-470 Fiasco - Need To Vent

[jjbodean1970]

thats the point - youre not SUPPOSSED to see it

 

[greynolds]

Way back on page 1, I had posted that you forget about the lower guys and head for the GM, Lexus Customer Care and an attorney. I had a premonition it wasn't going to be a slam dunk solution. I was even the first to mention using a Lemon Law to request for nothing less than a full replacement new LX470. Now you agree, and I am glad to see you come to that realization. Better late than never, I guess.

Way back on page 1, the Lemon Law wasn't yet a factor to consider. Now it is. Way back on page 1, there seemed to be a hope that the problem could be solved without getting lawyers involved. I didn't agree that getting lawyers involved was the thing to do when this all started - it seemed reasonable to give the dealership a chance to make things right. I still think it's reasonable to give the GM a chance to do something when he gets back on Wednesday before I call in the cavalry.

Good luck and keep us posted....

Thanks.

 

[Jim_Chow]

then i would skip the dvd altogether. the factory one is kinda hokey imho. most of the lx 470s coming in now dont have the night view or the dvd anyway. just dont get sand dollar, remember!

What's wrong with sand dollar? If I had to get the rear dvd, I'd probably also get the factory one (screen flips down from the ceiling) since I'd trust the factory more than some small shop contracted for the installation.

 

[jjbodean1970]

the invision is installed at the dealership by dealer technicians.

sand dollar is a dog of a color, terrible resale value. the dealers avoid getting it if possible.

 

[Da Hapa]

What's wrong with sand dollar? If I had to get the rear dvd, I'd probably also get the factory one (screen flips down from the ceiling) since I'd trust the factory more than some small shop contracted for the installation.

Hi Jim -

I had two separate dealers tell me stories about Sand Dollar as it apparently looks very different in person than it does in the color swatches on lilne and in the brochures. In both instances, someone ordered a Sand Dollar LX and then refused delivery when they actually saw them in person. To each his own, to be sure, but I would suspect that kind of response might affect resale (not from a $ perspective but perhaps from an ease of sale perspective).

I've see several aftermarket DVD installations that don't involve any cutting, etc. in the interior of the car. They're true portable systems that are cheap, nearly disposable when the technology advances, and as opposed to the factory installations... don't lock you into one system for as long as you have the car.

 

[jmarlo]

I would NOT agree to pick up your LX pending delivery of the wire harness. Every day your vehicle is at the dealer helps you in the event you decide to seek reimbursement or replacement under your state's lemon law.** In most states, 30 days out of service is a presumption that a reasonable number of repair attempts have been made to repair the vehicle. Normally thats a rebuttable presumption, but you want those days to accrue to help your case.

At this point you should also send a letter to the dealer, AND TO LEXUS, demanding final repairs be made (regular US mail is legally sufficient, send it certified if you are paranoid). Most manufacturer's warranties require that the manufacturer, not just their dealers, be notified in order to obtain the full benefit of the warranty.

And DO continue to make your payments. The post above about the reasons for doing so is good advice. However, use this as a negotiating tool--demand the dealer make your payments pending repairs.

And if the attorney you called back does not return your call that same day, call another one. Its not like there is a lack of lemon lawyers out there.

**The fact that you are in a loaner vehicle helps the dealer's case regarding the 30 days out of service--but many local lemon laws require "a comprable loaner car" so you (depending your your state's lemon law provisions) can make the argument that an RX is not comparable to a LX.

 

[e9999]

man, this thread is heading for some sort of record...

some sort of morbid fascination freudian thing, I guess...

 

[bluestar]

Hi Jim -

I had two separate dealers tell me stories about Sand Dollar as it apparently looks very different in person than it does in the color swatches on lilne and in the brochures. In both instances, someone ordered a Sand Dollar LX and then refused delivery when they actually saw them in person. To each his own, to be sure, but I would suspect that kind of response might affect resale (not from a $ perspective but perhaps from an ease of sale perspective).

My LX is Sand Dollar. I love this color so much. Why ? Cos its not that common, that's why. The colors for the LX are so so.... Not much variation or fun colors. Silver, white, black and grey are kinda ho-hum to me. Now a sand dollar is kinda different. I love it. Everyone who've seen my truck loves the color. I certainly don't want Silver or Black. Hate Grey. Would consider White but its just so plain... Sand Dollar is much more fun and interesting.... Besides I already have 2 white cars ....

 

[SWUtah]

My LX is Sand Dollar. I love this color so much. Why ? Cos its not that common, that's why. The colors for the LX are so so.... Not much variation or fun colors. Silver, white, black and grey are kinda ho-hum to me. Now a sand dollar is kinda different. I love it. Everyone who've seen my truck loves the color. I certainly don't want Silver or Black. Hate Grey. Would consider White but its just so plain... Sand Dollar is much more fun and interesting.... Besides I already have 2 white cars ....

My 99 LC is Beige?? I thought it was silver when I bought it, but the title says it is beige. All I can say is that in 1999 they put a shat load of silver metallic in that beige paint, my 2004 4runner is Titanium and these two trucks both colors on these trucks look close too me?. I think the best way to pick a color is by looking at the truck and if you like the color buy it. I live in the high desert and these colors are perfect since they don't show all of the dust. I would not want a dark colored truck in my area, it would look dirty in only a few minutes.

 

[G-Cat]

Sand Dollar? I've been keeping up with this and, until now, I tought Sand Dollar was a brand of aftermarket DVD to avoid...sheesh.

 

[greynolds]

I would NOT agree to pick up your LX pending delivery of the wire harness. Every day your vehicle is at the dealer helps you in the event you decide to seek reimbursement or replacement under your state's lemon law.** In most states, 30 days out of service is a presumption that a reasonable number of repair attempts have been made to repair the vehicle. Normally thats a rebuttable presumption, but you want those days to accrue to help your case.

In Massachusetts, the vehicle has to be in 3 times for the same safety or major mechanical problem OR needs to be in for a total of 15 days for the Lemon Law to kick in. Depending on how the counting works (not sure if the initial trip into the shop during delivery counts), I'm at either 3 or 4 trips in now, so while the total number of days will continue to help my case at this point, I don't think that really matters now.

At this point, I will not pick up my vehicle until it is either proven to be repaired PROPERLY or a replacement vehicle is obtained. My parents currently have a spare car, so if it comes to it I can borrow it if the dealer takes the loaner car away (my parents are only an hour away and offered the car if I need it).

At this point you should also send a letter to the dealer, AND TO LEXUS, demanding final repairs be made (regular US mail is legally sufficient, send it certified if you are paranoid). Most manufacturer's warranties require that the manufacturer, not just their dealers, be notified in order to obtain the full benefit of the warranty.

Yes, this is something I need to take car of soon - and is a required step for the Lemon Law here.

And DO continue to make your payments. The post above about the reasons for doing so is good advice. However, use this as a negotiating tool--demand the dealer make your payments pending repairs.

Continue? The first one isn't even due yet . But yes, I will make the payments as scheduled unless advised to do otherwise by a lawyer who is aware of the applicable laws in my state. This isn't worth killing my credit rating over.

And if the attorney you called back does not return your call that same day, call another one. Its not like there is a lack of lemon lawyers out there.

I'm already pursuing other options here.

**The fact that you are in a loaner vehicle helps the dealer's case regarding the 30 days out of service--but many local lemon laws require "a comprable loaner car" so you (depending your your state's lemon law provisions) can make the argument that an RX is not comparable to a LX.

Regarding the loaner vehicle, I don't believe that gets them off the hook for the Lemon Law in Massachusetts. Besides, I had an ES (for a day), then the RX (for 7 days), and now another ES (for 3 days and counting), so there's no way they can claim I've had a comparable loaner car all along.

 

[greynolds]

man, this thread is heading for some sort of record...

some sort of morbid fascination freudian thing, I guess...

Personally, I'd be perfectly happy if a resolution is reached and this thread can end . I'd REALLY like to start enjoying the vehicle model I purchased - if I had wanted an RX or ES, my payments would have been a bit smaller...

 

[cary]

I have mentioned it before, but I do not believe that this is a lemon law issue. The damage was caused by the installer of the aftermarket accessory installer. I have run through MA's Lemon Law (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90-7n.5.htm) and it applies to vehicles that are defective from the manufacture. In fact, it allows the manufacture to assert the affirmative defense that the vehicle was modified by a party after delivery.

Your claim is going to lie with the dealer and the installer. Unfortunately, it looks like the vehicle was not properly fixed so you are going to have to take the step that you have and hire an attorney and start down the litigation road against the dealer.

 

[LXPearl]

I am sorry this keeps dragging out without satisfying the expected pursuit of excellence from Lexus. I still believe your best solution will come from Lexus directly, not the dealer. Since Lexus can deal from all LX's available, they can offer an equivalent trade out - and will likely deliver it to your door.

I agree with DeHapa's comments on the options and features.

I like the Sand Dollar color better than some of the others - it is rather unique. It looks different in various lighting conditions.

I was interested in the clear hood paint protectant until my wife saw it on an LX I was considering - I was hesitant, but my wife gave it the immediate thumbs down. It was on a vehicle that was several years old - the paint difference was noticeable in appearance.

I hope Lexus makes this right for you and these problems turn out to have a silver lining (a different new and better LX). I have known of other Lexus dealers that go to great lengths to satisfy their customers. This dealer appears to be at the bottom of the barrel. Lexus needs to know about them so they can be removed from the Lexus brand.

Best wishes. I look forward to a good report from Lexus.

 

[jmarlo]

Cary-

He needs to pursue relief from the manufacturer, dealer, and the installer that was used by the dealer. However, since installer is the agent of the dealer who is the agent of the manufacturer, and since only the manufacturer is liable under the lemon law (at least in most states this is the case, I have not researched MA lemon law), the simplest, fastest approach is to sue the manufacturer and let them pursue indemnity from the others.

He certainly CAN pursue everyone, but that is not necessary to obtain appropriate relief.

Also, most state's lemon laws allow the consumer to choose their relief (once liability has been determined), either restitution or a replacement vehicle. A manufacturer cannot force repairs on a reluctant consumer (this goes to the confidence in the vehicle consideration discussed above).

Bottom line, it a nightmare for anyone involved in this type of mess.

 

[cary]

It is a nightmare for him. Filing against the manufacture will not help him in this matter, as they will simply assert the affirmative defense that the vehicle was damaged as a result of the modifications. He has a problem when pleading the matter that as soon as he alleges that the vehicle was damaged when the antitheft device was installed, the manufacture is going to file a demur to the complaint.

Realistically, he will file against all three, but I don't expect he will get far with the manufacture.

 

[a990dna]

man, this thread is heading for some sort of record...

some sort of morbid fascination freudian thing, I guess...

Depending on greynolds stamina, this could be an interesting outcome. It very well could be a "David and Goliath" showdown, or merely watching the Lions as they have their way with him in the arena.

Considering what cary just said above, I'm not sure the Lemon Law will help in this case---it's a third party issue and NOT a dealer installed OEM option that was tested and validated by the manufacturer. Big problem!

If you were a gambling man, who would you bet on at this point ?

 

[r3run33]

gary sorry to hear tis still going on especially with this weekend weather i am sure you wish you had an lx to use. ok as per the elmon law thing when we did ours with chrysler our gr cher kept stalling in cetain instances (NOt all the time which was hard to prove but on 1 occasion i was driving with the tech and it stalled from then on we pushed for a buy back b/c our jeep had 11k miles on it already. now special things with a buy back the vehicle is not designated as a lemon law product ( which has to be disclosed to future buyers) buy backs do not i applaud you for going the nice guy route and try this with the gm of the dealership or another lexus rep state hey its new just do a buy back a switch the vehicle you can use this as a demo etc etc. good luck and keep figting i know i have been bitchin about my 06 with its problems but they are minor compared to yours

 

[jmarlo]

I should have mentioned this before, but forgot. Prior to filing any suit, he should carefully read the warranty and see if it provides for an arbitration or mediation process. Although an mfg cannot compel you to participate in arbitration or mediation before filing suit, its a good idea, as many state's lemon laws don't allow for maximum damages unless you go with the mfg's alternative dispute resolution program first (if they have one). Submittiing to such process will not preclude his ability to sue, may work to his benefit withought the necessity of retaining an attorney, and if nothing else, he can learn the mfg's defenses before he files suit.

I suppose I should go read my own warranty statement and see what it says, but likely the 2006 is different anyway.

 

[bluestar]

Sand Dollar? I've been keeping up with this and, until now, I tought Sand Dollar was a brand of aftermarket DVD to avoid...sheesh.

Well here is my Sand Dollar Pearl LX470... I don't see this looking like an AM DVD unit, eh ?