New LX-470 Fiasco - Need To Vent

[100 TD]

..........They showed me the wire that was tapped into and the wiring diagram. I don't remember the specific wire number or exact location, but it was a main power feed that various things tap off of for power, including the ignition and the air bag system.

If it was a main power feed that the IGN, air bags and other things tap off, it should not have upset the air bag system, and the air bag indicator should not have lit up. I would look into the tap again and check the circuit and understand why the air bag circuit was affected. Also if the wire was tapped, how was it achieved, with a scotchlok? I would prefer to see under the tape and ensure it has been soldered to repair it. AMy .02

 

[greynolds]

Sounds reasonable to me. I just hope this is but a brief ugly moment for you and that months from now you smile with joy every time you fire up that beast and enjoy the ride.

Assuming there are no other major issues any time soon, I suspect all should be forgotten in a few weeks.

I am curious about one thing... how will you rate the dealership in the inevitable survey? It sounds like your satisfied now and that you believe that the dealership is now behaving and acting reasonably but I wonder if you could assess the entire situation as excellent as opposed to merely satisfactory.

That's a good question and one I'm not sure I have an answer to yet. Depending on how the survey is setup, it may be possible to pan them for how they initially handled things, but give them an overall excellent rating in the end for how things turned out - that would seem fair to me. The type of survey you're asking about is often setup poorly and doesn't really give you a chance to give responses that would actually be useful.

 

[sleeoffroad]

If it was a main power feed that the IGN, air bags and other things tap off, it should not have upset the air bag system, and the air bag indicator should not have lit up.

That is the part the I do not understand.

However, now you can go off-road and scratch the rear bumper

 

[greynolds]

If it was a main power feed that the IGN, air bags and other things tap off, it should not have upset the air bag system, and the air bag indicator should not have lit up. I would look into the tap again and check the circuit and understand why the air bag circuit was affected. Also if the wire was tapped, how was it achieved, with a scotchlok? I would prefer to see under the tape and ensure it has been soldered to repair it. AMy .02

They aren't positive why the GuidePoint upset the air bag system, but their best guess is that it put some sort of back feed into the line that caused the problem. The bottom line is that hooking the GuidePoint up elsewhere made everything happy. As to how the wire was tapped, they had simply cut a small amount of insulation off, wrapped the wire around it (that strikes me as a piss poor way to do it), and put tape over it. So the repair was to remove the tape, unwrap the wire, and put a fresh piece of tape over it in place of the insulation, which really should be fine. I never thought that scotchlocks were all that pricey and are a reasonable way to tap off power in this sort of case, but using one would have made repair more difficult, so I'm glad they didn't in this case.

 

[cruiserdan]

That is the part the I do not understand.

However, now you can go off-road and scratch the rear bumper

He was not thinking clearly. He should have insisted upon a Slee rear bumper...

 

[tabraha]

He was not thinking clearly. He should have insisted upon a Slee rear bumper...

Fact.


greynolds: Glad this is over, I'm sure you are much happier than all of us about that though.

Enjoy the ride!

 

[greynolds]

He was not thinking clearly. He should have insisted upon a Slee rear bumper...

That was suggested earlier in the thread and really would have been cool, but I really doubt the dealer would have gone for it. That isn't to say that they're not at least somewhat supportive of using the LX and GX trucks off road. The service foreman and I went for a test drive before I left to confirm that the rough ride issue was resolved and was telling me that he (or more accurately, his wife) drives a GX and gets to play with it off road a bit (didn't sound like anything challenging, but it's nice to see). The only other dealer I've ever dealt with that acknowledged offroading was Land Rover (which even puts on some mild off roading events for their customers).

One of the first things I noticed when we went for the test drive was that they filled up my gas tank - he told me he noticed it was almost empty and figured a full tank of gas was the least they could do for me given what was going on so he filled it for me while he was out checking how it was riding. That's certainly a good sign that they do aim to make people happy.

 

[spressomon]

Greynolds: Boy I sure feel your pain. We bought a brand new house in 2001 and have bona fide structural defects as well as other issues that the builder has refused to resolve. So I finally hired a construction defect attorney 16-months and a boat load of cash ago...and we are finally going to mediation. Then more than likely on to file suit...

It just sucks the innocent never get treated fairly and have to bear the burden to finance the lawyers to prove it!

Anyway I hope you come to resolution soon so you can start the enjoyment part of your new ride! Good Luck!

 

[100 TD]

....they had simply cut a small amount of insulation off, wrapped the wire around it (that strikes me as a piss poor way to do it), and put tape over it.

Piss poor are the correct words alright, I expect the second install job has been done the same way on another wire somewhere else, these guys need a lesson in auto electrics!! You should fnd out if the second install was done this way and get it soldered.

That is the part the I do not understand.

I presume you are in agreeance here Christo, sounds to me that the tap was in fact on the load side of the combination meter lamp circuit/SRS ECU.

 

[Campfire]

Looks like things have been resolved to my satisfaction today.

I hope those who have been following this thread agree that this is a reasonable resolution. I imagine some will still insist that I'm entitled to a replacement vehicle and that I don't have a spine, but once I saw exactly what the deal was, I really didn't see how I could justify pushing even for as much as I got in the end.

I also thank everyone for their support and advice - much of it really was helpful if only to get me thinking about how to properly handle this situation.

Now to get my post count up writing about fun stuff related to my new toy!

I wouldn't worry about what others think of your spine. We have all been through something at one time or another that we just wanted to end.
Are YOU happy? Are YOU going to have fun in the new ride? And are YOU looking forward to cruising around in it?
But I wonder...
a) At what point after you talked to Customer relations, did Toyota call the dealer and tell them "take care of this guy"
b) Did someone from Toyota or the dealer actually read this thread?
c) Did the dealer really learn anything from this? Or will they continue to screw the poor unsuspecting buyer that doesn't know of this resource known as
IH8MUD.COM

 

[cary]

I think you got a fair deal. If you are happy that is all that matters.

 

[jp213a]

They aren't positive why the GuidePoint upset the air bag system, but their best guess is that it put some sort of back feed into the line that caused the problem. The bottom line is that hooking the GuidePoint up elsewhere made everything happy. As to how the wire was tapped, they had simply cut a small amount of insulation off, wrapped the wire around it (that strikes me as a piss poor way to do it), and put tape over it. So the repair was to remove the tape, unwrap the wire, and put a fresh piece of tape over it in place of the insulation, which really should be fine.

The GuidePoint activated the SRS warning light because it increased the amp draw on the wire supplying 12 volts to the Airbag Sensor Assembly (SRS computer). The extra amp draw dropped the voltage. The Airbag Sensor Assembly includes a circuit to monitor voltage and to automatically increase it when low. It also lights the SRS warning light when low voltage is detected and turns it off when normal voltage is restored. This is from the 2002 LC FSM page DI-604.

Since the GuidePoint installer tapped into the 12 volt supply wire for the SRS and not the actual SRS wire harness indicated by a yellow sheath and yellow plugs, the SRS harness doesn’t need to be replaced. Out of curiosity, I contacted a Toyota dealer and found the retail price for a new SRS harness for a 2005 LC is $1,853 with a three day lead time.

As for the repair job on the SRS supply wire, electrical tape is questionable for a permanent repair. I’ve seen too many similar repairs after several years of exposure to heat from parking in the sun with the windows up. The tape turns into a sticky mess that unwinds, exposing the bare conductor. If at all feasible, I’d insist on cutting the wire at the bare spot, slipping on a piece of heat shrink tubing, soldering the wire back together, and then shrink the tubing with a heat gun over the solder joint.

When you pickup your vehicle, go through the SRS checkout procedure detailed in Post 118. This will at least insure the SRS warning light wasn’t disconnected or the lamp removed. Based on this dealership’s track record, you still need to keep your guard up. Hopefully, you or your family will never be dependent on the SRS to save your lives but you never know.

As part of the final settlement, I’d push the dealer to include a set of FSM’s for your 2006 LX. Even if you plan to never turn a wrench yourself on this vehicle, the manuals are a great information resource and you can use the information to keep service departments honest. The manuals retail for around $300. You’ve still got the survey response to hold over their head.

Once you get this ordeal behind you and start driving your LX, I’m sure you’ll be extremely happy with your purchase decision and feel it was money well spent.

 

[jjbodean1970]

GR, i believe that you got a fair deal. i am glad you are happy with it.

btw, there is no guarantee that you will even get a survey from lexus. last year lexus instituted a new survey system that reduces the frequency of surveys going to customers for purchases and warranty work. customers who now have customer-pay work may also be surveyed, however. your chances of the purchase survery are pretty good, but not 100% as they would have been in the past.

 

[greynolds]

Well, I'm back to square one. I started the truck this morning to go run some errands and the air bag warning light started flashing slowly again. It's back at the dealer and I have another loaner. The GM is on a trip till and won't be back to work till Wednesday, but the service manager left him a message - for whatever that's worth. I told everyone involved that I could speak with that I expect a replacement vehicle at this point and that all of my personal possessions have been removed from "mine". Guess I should call Lexus customer care again and see if they can provide any help on this. It's also time to contact a different lawyer - preferably one who will call me back .

 

[jp213a]

Well, I'm back to square one. I started the truck this morning to go run some errands and the air bag warning light started flashing slowly again.

The vehicile is equipped with on board diagnostics. Have the service department use their scan tool to read out the diagnostic trouble code (DTC) and then look up the code in the FSM and tell you what it means. This information could be useful to you when talking with the LX rep and to your lawyer. There are 20 codes for the SRS on a 2002. Eight of the codes cause the SRS warning light to blink and the others turn it on and keep it on. Most of the codes indicate a problem with the SRS wire harness. Here are a couple of examples:

DTC: B0135/73 Short in P/T squib (LH) circuit
DTC: B0136/74 Open in P/T squib (LH) circuit

I recommend you and your lawyer put as much pressure on LX USA as possible until this is resolved. To hell with the dealership.

 

[a990dna]

I couldn't find any public financial statements from these companies on the internet... but if you compare your annual household income with the gross margins and earnings from GuidePoint and the dealer you purchased your Lexus from, I think you'll find their earnings are in the millions.

I would simply demand a refund or new vehicle and get this problem out of your life.

They're counting units sold and month-end shipments...

and you're just one of those numbers, but the one with the $70K problem they created, accident or not. Do you know anyone else that would want or gladly buy this vehicle knowing these problems? I guarantee you'll have difficulty selling this vehicle on your own... and no other dealer in their right mind would take it as a trade-in without you taking a huge hit.

Forget your employer's legal referral service they provide you at work... you need to find a lawyer in your area that has expertise in this type of litigation.

Again, good luck.

 

[greynolds]

I couldn't find any public financial statements from these companies on the internet... but if you compare your annual household income with the gross margins and earnings from GuidePoint and the dealer you purchased your Lexus from, I think you'll find their earnings are in the millions.

And I'll find my earnings are definitely NOT in the millions .

I would simply demand a refund or new vehicle and get this problem out of your life.

Forget your employer's legal referral service they provide you at work... you need to find a lawyer in your area that has expertise in this type of litigation.

I'm thinking the Lemon Law may actually apply in my case. The Lemon Law is for major mechanical problems or safety issues. How much more safety related can you get than the air bag system? It's technically been in the service department 4 times now for the same problem (initial delivery day, twice on Friday 2/3, and now today). I've contacted a Land Rover buddy who is a lawyer (I don't think in the right area of law, but I suspect he may have an associate he can refer me to).

If the Lemon Law does apply in this case, taking the vehicle back yesterday could actually work in my favor as it gives them 1 more strike than if I didn't take it back.

 

[a990dna]

I agree. The lemon law appears to be on your side right now. It's unfortunate you're having to go through this process... life is tough enough.

We're rooting for you... at this point; you represent our voice in consumer advocacy.

I'm sure you'll keep us posted as to the outcome.


Take care.

 

[calamaridog]

If you live in CA please read this about the Lemon Law:

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/lemonaid2005.pdf

And please bookmark this site for the Bureau of Automotive Repair:

http://smogcheck.ca.gov/stdhome.asp

I would consult an attorney who specializes in Lemon Law cases if you need to go there.

 

[a990dna]

Another thing you might consider is getting the local media involved if they want to play hardball.... from a local business point of view, there's nothing worse than negative publicity in their own community---of course consult with an attorney first.

A story from the past:

Way back in the late-60s, early-70s, there was this guy by the name of Eddy Campos here in Whittier. The guy saved his money for years to buy a new Lincoln Continental. Needless to say it was a lemon and FMC wouldn't help him... the car was an absolute mess.

I can't remember all the details, but I do remember he drove his Lincoln onto the lawn of the Ford assembly plant in Pico Rivera, CA.... poured gasoline all over it, and set the car on fire as he watched it burn to the ground. After all the commotion ended, he towed it home and parked the car on his front lawn in front of a well traveled road where I grew up... it sat there for years as it rusted.

To make things worse for FMC, he cut a big hole in the top and bottom of the car and planted a lemon tree inside the vehicle for public display... and spray-painted the word "Lemon" all over the side of that huge car. The media was all over it and our local Lincoln-Mercury Dealer eventually took the brunt of all the bad publicity.

Every Sunday my parents would take us to church and drive by his house. I remember that car... it and the lemon tree was stuck in my mind for years.

I'm sure Eddie Campos made an impact on our current lemon laws.