New LX-470 Fiasco - Need To Vent

[SWUtah]

2 comments:

New vehicle: I make a lot of money. I'm sure if you're buying a new LX470 you must too. I wouldn't accept that vehicle at any price. That thing cost $65K+. It's not some Honda Civic you'll junk soon. I think you're foolish to not at leat SEE A LAWLEY and have the LAWYER CALL THE GM. You're out a couple of hundred bucks and I know you will end up with a new LX. Yes, it's a hassle however you got screwed, you're getting screwed (by the GM's comments) and it's up to YOU to correct it. Sounds harsh but we're talking a boatload of money here.

7-yr/100K: Careful here. Toyota offers two plans. One doesn't cover a bunch of the electrics and one does. Make sure you get the best one.

Good luck...but don't rollover to thei intimidation. It's WORTH the added work IMO.

I disagree, once you take it to a Lawyer and he makes that call, all good will is over. The dealership goes by the law and if the law is not on his side he will get his bumper fixed and he will be told that his wiring harness is OK like it is. Yes he could call a Lawyer and explain what has happened and if the Lawyer can show him, that "by law he should get a new LX" then it is worth it to preceed (if that is what he wants, and he wants to go that route. But it better be a written law in his state or he will be screwing himself trying to have a Lawyer do his talking for him.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I disagree, once you take it to a Lawyer and he makes that call, all good will is over. The dealership goes by the law and if the law is not on his side he will get his bumper fixed and he will be told that his wiring harness is OK like it is. Yes he could call a Lawyer and explain what has happened and if the Lawyer can show him, that "by law he should get a new LX" then it is worth it to preceed (if that is what he wants, and he wants to go that route. But it better be a written law in his state or he will be screwing himself trying to have a Lawyer do his talking for him.

Worked for me in 1999. Ford took my F150 back, though they didn't have to. It was 2 years old.

 

[a990dna]

Once again, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SHOULD NOT BE GIVING LEGAL ADVICE. It is one thing to be an educated layperson and provide information that is based upon fact, but giving out wrong information because you have no clue what you are talking about is worse than saying nothing.

No need to raise the blood pressure, I'm not giving legal advice... more appropriately, tips on negotiation and buying tactics from the consumer side.

So you have clients that are dealers.. why is it they are so desperate to have you take delivery upon signing a contract? Why do they need to force delivery if they have a signed contract?

I would like to know what would happen to a signed contract if you don't take delivery, without the exchange of money. BTW: The definition of "delivery" is driving the vehicle off the lot...

Tell me what you would do for your client in this situation? I’m curious.

The buying process is simple from my viewpoint:

1. Buyer signs the dealer's vehicle purchase contract.
2. Dealer signs the buyer's verification and acceptance contract.
3. Exchange of monies and vehicle title only after verification and acceptance.

For the consumer there's a lot of money on the table. The only leverage they have is holding payment until acceptance.

I didn't take delivery on my LC for 2 weeks, and only upon acceptance after the dealer performed the work. Was that unreasonable terms?

 

[cary]

No need to raise the blood pressure, I'm not giving legal advice... more appropriately, tips on negotiation and buying tactics from the consumer side.

Nope, you mis-stated at least twice that there is a 72 hour right of recission when purchasing automobiles. In California, where you and I live, there is no such right.

 

[Tinkerer]

Is this story for real?

If I were you (and the story was real), the first thing I would do is pick up the phone and get the phone number of the General Manager of the dealership. (Or whatever they call their top manager.)

I would politely get that individual to personally assist you from here on. The people working on your vehicle, and the people handling things and talking to you, have screwed up everything they've touched, and they've obviously lied to you and otherwise screwed up the customer interface process also.

The General Manager, or maybe even the owner(s) of that dealership, will be very glad to hear of your troubles, because they will be very unhappy to know that someone doing work for them tapped into your airbag wiring as part of installing something else.

Can you say "lawsuit"? If that airbag malfunctions in an accident, and it turns out that it is due to the dealer or dealer agent negligence, they are going to be in some very hot water. Million$.

Hell, all a lawyer would have to suggest would be that the driver was distracted by the airbag light, leading to the accident. That's all it would take to take the negligent party to the cleaners, if they had deep pockets - and dealers have deep pockets. A lawyer's wet dream.

So they will want to make sure that their people are not screwing up airbag wiring.

You can bet that the General Manager, and/or the owner(s), will thank you for bringing this to their attention.

And once you do, you can expect full remedies and compensation for your damages etc.

Let us know how things turn out.

 

[r3run33]

hey guys i have been away and just read the entire 3 pasges hey g reyn i know how you feel my 06 has got some problems to my sunroof still squeks my wife says it rattles which in her opion is worse she is constantly bitching about my 68k truck that squeks and rattle like it is 50 years old (my 99 had78k on it and had none of this) anyway it is very hard to get them to but back they did fix my mirror and oil press gauge. i have 6k miles on it now and not a day goes by that i wish i had my old 99 back. hows that for lexus service and loyalty.

 

[a990dna]

Nope, you mis-stated at least twice that there is a 72 hour right of recission when purchasing automobiles. In California, where you and I live, there is no such right.

[Edit]

cary, my mistake, my apology, the 72 hour thing doesn't apply to new vehicle purchases. I get this mixed up with other contract provisions and the new law that's going to effect.

But I've yet to determine when a new vehicle deal is final.

after signing a contract... or
upon delivery, title change and driving the vehicle off the lot.

They want to quicky get you into the vehicle and drive away... in my case I wouldn't take delivery until the installlation work was performed, verified and accepted.

Dealers can reverse a deal if they wish... especially if they are at fault for screwing up your new vehicle.

[Edit]

 

[greynolds]

Is this story for real?

I'm pretty sure it is - not sure I could make this stuff up.

If I were you (and the story was real), the first thing I would do is pick up the phone and get the phone number of the General Manager of the dealership. (Or whatever they call their top manager.)

I met with the general manager last evening in person.

I would politely get that individual to personally assist you from here on. The people working on your vehicle, and the people handling things and talking to you, have screwed up everything they've touched, and they've obviously lied to you and otherwise screwed up the customer interface process also.

Well, there are 3 issues:

1) The air bag wiring that was tapped into by the GuidePoint installers who were hired by the dealer. I do think that replacing the wiring harness ought to be sufficient to resolve this.

2) The damage to the rear bumper. This clearly falls into the happens category and they're fixing it.

3) The out of balance / rough ride issue. They claim to have fixed this - I won't know for sure till I get it back.

I definitely took issue with the way the bumper problem was withheld from me when I called to check on the status. That was unprofessional and actually bugged me even more than the actual damage. If he wasn't authorized to tell me at the time, he should have said something like "I need to look into it and get back to you" and then go track down the salesperson and have him call me instead of telling me "it's out for the final test ride and should be ready in an hour". This was discussed with the GM - not sure if they'll change their ways, but it was made very clear that I considered how this was handled completely unacceptable.

Can you say "lawsuit"? If that airbag malfunctions in an accident, and it turns out that it is due to the dealer or dealer agent negligence, they are going to be in some very hot water. Million$.

I'm sure they're aware of the air bags being a pretty sensitive area and the potential liability. The GM gave no argument about replacing the wiring harness. The extended warranty didn't take much arm twisting either. I suspect I probably could have gotten more (such as more free scheduled maintainance), but at some point it's just getting greedy which just isn't my thing.

and dealers have deep pockets. A lawyer's wet dream.

This dealership is part of a large dealer network. They have a bunch of dealerships in the Boston area (including Lexus (2 of these), Nissan (2 of these), Toyota (2 of these), Porsche, Jeep, Mazda, BMW, Audi, Subaru, Scion, Dodge, and Chrysler), have dealer networks in other parts of the country, and are a public company AFAIK. So I think these guys have very deep pockets.

 

[FirstToy]

greynolds, you sound like a good guy. Hope your troubles are soon behind you and you can enjoy the ride.
Did you talk w/ cruiserdan on what exactly needs replacing of the wiring harness- just so you know this is done right.

good luck !

 

[greynolds]

greynolds, you sound like a good guy. Hope your troubles are soon behind you and you can enjoy the ride.

Thanks.

Did you talk w/ cruiserdan on what exactly needs replacing of the wiring harness- just so you know this is done right.

I'm sending him a PM now - thanks for the reminder.

 

[G-Cat]

My buddy got a Certified Pre-Owned LX. Had some problems. The Lexus Dealership (45 minutes away) delivered a replacement (RX330) and drove the LX in for warranty work, then delivered the LX back to my buddies house and took back the loaner. (Not every time, but several times)

Did they provide you with a replacement Lexus while you were waiting?

Maybe not every Lexus dealership does this?

(This may have been posted on page 2, but I got tired)

 

[tech_dog]

I bought my new LX about 120 miles away.

The dealer offered to drive down to my house, drop off a loner car, take my LX back and install my XM radio (that they forgot), and then drive the LX back to me. That would have put one of their employees on the road for almost 8 hours.

I turned them down. The reality is I don't want anyone else driving my new LX. Regardless, I was amazed by the offer.

 

[SINCITY100]

Personally, I lost ANY faith in that dealership after the initial post...

Could the dealer have unwound the original contract and rolled it over to another vehicle, even this late in the game ?

...Of COURSE they could...(If they really wanted to)...


Did they royally screw up the final prep and delivery of your vehicle ?

...obviously, YES !!..

Did they take the PROPER course to make you a repeat customer and to speak highly of their dealership ??

...HELL NO !!

I know EXACTLY what a dealership can and cant do after a customer takes delivery of a new vehicle, and with that in mind...

I have read and thought about all of the posts and comments regarding this "situation"....

And I keep thinking.."what if that was me ?".., And I have come to the conclusion that, If I spent top dollar for a BRAND FRIGGIN NEW LEXUS..This would not have been close to meeting my EXPECTATIONS

I`ve bought new vehicles in the past for one main reason..Because they are NEW ! Not repainted, not with questionable hacks to the wiring.. and not wondering how many other things are there that I dont know about.. I mean, I would have bought a USED vehicle if I wanted that, right?...

A Bad situation made WORSE by a dealer sticking to a contract, not the buyers feelings or best interest in mind, all while throwing out some lame "perks" that are much easier to write off at the end of the year than actually doing what is RIGHT ...It is ultimately up to a single person, not to a "contract"

No-wonder so many dealerships have a BAD reputation..Eh ?...

And Yes, I agree with others here..You are truly a good guy to take this abuse and not go postal on the salesman, sales manager, AND general manager !!

And once again..I feel better now

 

[e9999]

as I said, my wife bought -on her own- a used 100 in California. Nowhere close to $60K of course. The same day I noted some problems. The second day, I had those confirmed by another Toy dealer. The third day first thing in the a.m. the 100 was back at the sale dealer and 4 hours worth of convincing and waiting out their stalling later, we had the money back and the contract cancelled. They were not happy...

This was a used vehicle, not a Lexus, not as much $$, and the problems were not as potentially serious as an airbag issue.

So, yes, it IS possible to return a vehicle in the PRK as well if you really want to.

 

[Morty]

Greynolds-

I have done work representing several car dealers in this state and I agree with cary that you are on the right track. The dealer could take the car back as a P.R. move, but they are very likely not legally bound to do so at this point. There is no right of recission for cars in any state I know of and lemon laws generally don't apply to your situation. Besides, lemon laws (at least in UT) don't force a dealer to replace your car with a new one--only to compensate you for its fair vaule.

I like your style--no need to hire lawyers and make a big fuss when they have offered to make everything right by replacing the bumper with a factory part and replacing the wiring harness. I think you are being reasonable and coming out ahead by getting the free service and extended warranty (provided they perform the repairs to the wiring harness and bumper correctly). Besides, you will give up all of your good guy leverage with the dealer when you hire a lawyer.

Dealers do have deep pockets, but that cuts both ways. If they think they are right, they have the money to fight you to the death and they will (that's how I make my living ). IMO, it's not worth the battle unless you have very clearly been screwed.

You seem like a really decent guy. I hope this works out well for you. Good luck.

 

[bulldog-yota]

Seems like Lexus is dropping a notch with their customer service. My experience has been good with the GX, but to be honest I was expecting excellence NOT good. At the Toyota Dealer I was exopecting good and got average. At least now I know the service writer well and get good service, thus meeting my expectation. Still working on the Lexus dealer, but to be honest I am seriously thinking of going to a different one.

I hope the Lexus dealer GM was all over your problem and is making sure it is taken care of properly, not just paying lip service. Make sure they actually give you the repalced wiring harnass for the airbags, since they agreed to it. WHo knows if they actually replaced it if you dont get the old one.

All of the best and they better take excellent care of you from now on.

 

[greynolds]

Did they provide you with a replacement Lexus while you were waiting?

Yes, I have a 2006 RX-330 from their loaner fleet while my LX is in the shop. It had under 500 miles on it when I got it, but what a big step down from the LX - it gets me where I need to go, but I really don't like it.

When I got home last night, there was a message on my answering machine from someone at the dealership who's job is to call people after service and make sure the customer can give them an excellent rating on any surveys that come their way. One has to wonder why she wasn't told NOT to call me until I actually have my LX back and fixed properly . I think I'll call her back, let her know the situation, and possibly get a status update while I'm at it (haven't heard anything since Monday).

 

[Greg B]

I know several people here think you should get a new one. If it were me, I would take the deal you're getting. So what, the bumper got painted. It's not rocket science to re-paint a bumper and I would change to an aftermarket bumper anyways. There's no guarantee that the new one they'd give you hasn't had some type of work done on it before you take possession anyways.

If they replace the wiring harness with new factory parts, you shouldn't have any problems with the airbags right? As long as they document the repairs, you should have no worries.

So, at the end of the day, you get the same 100 you already decided on and now you have a 100K mile warranty to cover anything that will go wrong later. (Read: o2 censors, cracked manifolds, starter contacts, etc.) This is nice peace of mind.

If you lined up a new 100 without the extended warranty and the one you bought with an extended warranty, I'd take yours.

 

[jjbodean1970]

Seems like Lexus is dropping a notch with their customer service.

it's actually not so much that lexus customer service has dropped off, it is that customer expectations have risen. look at what everybody else was doing for customer service back in the early 90's. nothing. lexus set the bar. and they are having to continually set it higher and higher to stay one step ahead of everybody else. sometimes they miss the mark, sometimes they hit a home run. i still challenge anyone to judge lexus customer service vs any other manufacturer. look at the annual jd power surveys, they speak for themselves.

 

[ace10]

I know several people here think you should get a new one. If it were me, I would take the deal you're getting. So what, the bumper got painted. It's not rocket science to re-paint a bumper and I would change to an aftermarket bumper anyways. There's no guarantee that the new one they'd give you hasn't had some type of work done on it before you take possession anyways.

If they replace the wiring harness with new factory parts, you shouldn't have any problems with the airbags right? As long as they document the repairs, you should have no worries.

So, at the end of the day, you get the same 100 you already decided on and now you have a 100K mile warranty to cover anything that will go wrong later. (Read: o2 censors, cracked manifolds, starter contacts, etc.) This is nice peace of mind.

If you lined up a new 100 without the extended warranty and the one you bought with an extended warranty, I'd take yours.

i have to take issue with two of your statements.

the first is that re-painting a bumper is close to rocket science. usually it goes horribly wrong (mismatch, surface imperfections and peeling later on). unfortunately, in my range of experience, body shops do not do a good job of painting bumper covers... even the really high-end ones.

second is that you say that the buyer "shouldn't" have any problems with his airbags. that's a big leap of faith. if i just plopped down big bucks on an LX, as i did 3 1/2 years ago, i wouldn't want the word "should" associated with a primary safety system in my vehicle.

i'm glad that the dealer is going to replace the harness where the hacker went at it, but i'd want it to be reviewed by mr T or his designee as to provide proper assurance that it will work when needed and not short/fault out and deploy the frigging thing while i'm driving.

i know that this situation really sucks. i've been there. our LX was delivered with a banged-up pax side mirror. i got the old "it'll buff right out" story. i demanded a new mirror off another riverrock on the lot. they agreed. i was happy, although it shouldn't have been delivered that way.

best of luck to you greynolds. keep up the good fight.