New LX-470 Fiasco - Need To Vent

[Greg B]

i have to take issue with two of your statements.

the first is that re-painting a bumper is close to rocket science. usually it goes horribly wrong (mismatch, surface imperfections and peeling later on). unfortunately, in my range of experience, body shops do not do a good job of painting bumper covers... even the really high-end ones.

second is that you say that the buyer "shouldn't" have any problems with his airbags. that's a big leap of faith. if i just plopped down big bucks on an LX, as i did 3 1/2 years ago, i wouldn't want the word "should" associated with a primary safety system in my vehicle.

i'm glad that the dealer is going to replace the harness where the hacker went at it, but i'd want it to be reviewed by mr T or his designee as to provide proper assurance that it will work when needed and not short/fault out and deploy the frigging thing while i'm driving.

i know that this situation really sucks. i've been there. our LX was delivered with a banged-up pax side mirror. i got the old "it'll buff right out" story. i demanded a new mirror off another riverrock on the lot. they agreed. i was happy, although it shouldn't have been delivered that way.

best of luck to you greynolds. keep up the good fight.

You should find a new body shop then. I have had several repairs done by a local body shop over the years and haven't had issues with any of them. Go to a competent body shop that guarantees their work. I use a local shop that guarantees their work for as long as you own the vehicle.

My point on the paint is, you don't know what was done to a vehicle before you buy it. It could have been painted in the port where it came in before the dealer even had it on the lot. Get it fixed right and move on.

As far as the air bag wiring goes, I completely agree with you that this must be corrected properly. As long as it is done right, what is the problem with letting this be fixed. What do you propose? Well, the wiring's been tampered with on the airbag, let's crush the 100 and throw it in the junk yard? If it's fixed, why worry about it? There's always an element of risk, the technician that built it originally could have made a mistake too. There are no guarantees in life.

I think GReynolds is going about this the right way and I applaud his efforts to stay civilized and keep this all in perspective. If it were me, I would still take the deal he's getting over another 100. To me, the 100K warranty is a nice thing to have to cover things that will come up later.

 

[cary]

[Edit]

But I've yet to determine when a new vehicle deal is final.

after signing a contract... or
upon delivery, title change and driving the vehicle off the lot.

They want to quicky get you into the vehicle and drive away... in my case I wouldn't take delivery until the installlation work was performed, verified and accepted.

Dealers can reverse a deal if they wish... especially if they are at fault for screwing up your new vehicle.

[Edit]

Read the statute I posted, it is quite clear, the transaction is complete when the contract is executed. That is the time when title transfers. Whether you walk off without the car or drive it around the block doesn't matter.

The dealer wants you to get in the car because they don't want the thing sitting around taking up space and being a potential liability (i.e. somebody runs into the bumper and damages it and you come back demanding a new car. )

Any transaction can be undone if BOTH parties want to. It is called a mutual receision. You need to understand that there is a big difference between what is legally required, and what dealers do as part of good business practices. If you sign the contract and change your mind before taking posession of the car, they are not going to force you to go through with the deal (some will) because it doesn't bode well for them when they get are reputation of being a-holes by forcing people to take cars.

 

[Da Hapa]

Mission Viejo Lexus or Tustin Lexus? We had nothing but good experiences at MV. Know a great mechanic that works at the Tustin facility tho.

Hi Brent -

We're buying it from MV. We bought our IS300 from them in 2002 and they went out of their way to make my wife feel like a queen. I know, I know... I'm whipped but frankly, when my wife is happy, I'm happy and it's tough to put a dollar sign on that.

I did the ususal blanket email search for the LX we wanted to essentially every dealership from San Diego to San Francisco and MV is giving us the best deal by far.

Now their service is a whole different story. MV used to be very good but something changed about two years ago. We gave my sister our IS300 last year and now that, our RX300, my parents LS400 and I'm sure the new LX will all be serviced at Tustin. No problems at all at Tustin other than it's a really, really small dealership. But they're building that Fletcher Jonesesque monster on the corner of MacArthur and Jamboree and that will be only a few blocks from our work so that might be our next destination.

I'd sure appreciate the referral for the mechanic that you trust at Tustin Lexus!

GR - Hang in there buddy. I still think the dealer is making the best of a terrible set of accidental circumstances and I hope/pray that this is all an ugly memory for you in a few short days.

 

[greynolds]

(i.e. somebody runs into the bumper and damages it and you come back demanding a new car. )

Hey - I know someone who that happened to!!!

Any transaction can be undone if BOTH parties want to. It is called a mutual receision. You need to understand that there is a big difference between what is legally required, and what dealers do as part of good business practices. If you sign the contract and change your mind before taking posession of the car, they are not going to force you to go through with the deal (some will) because it doesn't bode well for them when they get are reputation of being a-holes by forcing people to take cars.

Exactly. The question some are presumably raising here is whether this dealer is being an a-hole by not replacing my LX with a brand new one. I would definitely prefer a brand new LX if only for feeling like I was treated really well, but am realistic enough to realize that it's very unlikely to happen and I have to cut my losses at some point and get what I can to help compensate for the situation.

The funny thing is that the dealer is still hoping to get an excellent rating on the Lexus survey. I got a message last night from the dealer's service follow up person who checks to make sure you're happy with the service and can give them nothing but excellent ratings. I called her back this morning - she hadn't been told that the problems hadn't been addressed and had no idea my vehicle was still there nor that the bumper had been damaged. I told her I had met with the GM and been given the warranty, etc., but that I didn't see how I could give them an excellent rating at this point. The freebies certainly help compensate for the inconvenience a bit, but they don't turn things around to the point where I can say the service was done right or that I was happy that the service advisor lied to me about the bumper problem, etc. I'm not sure that even a replacement vehicle or free service for as long as I own the vehicle would affect the survey to the point I could give them an excellent rating. If I can't be honest in my feedback, what value is there in the surveys?

 

[tech_dog]

OK... I'll chime in.

To be honest, you're probably coming out ahead if you walk away with some free service and the 7 year warranty. (Make sure it's the Platinum Lexus warranty.)

The real question is if this is going to bug you forever, and that's really your call. If this is going to make you like your LX less, then quickly get back in contact with the GM, and tell them that you're not going to be satisfied unless they take the hit and get you a new car.

I think your chances of being take care of are fairly high.

T.

 

[greynolds]

OK... I'll chime in.

To be honest, you're probably coming out ahead if you walk away with some free service and the 7 year warranty. (Make sure it's the Platinum Lexus warranty.)

I would tend to agree with you on that.

The real question is if this is going to bug you forever, and that's really your call.

I'm assuming that, unless they don't really have things fixed properly, I'll probably largely forget about all this in a few months and be happy with the vehicle for the long haul. If I end up having to go back again for the same or closely related issues, then that's another matter, but only time will tell.

If this is going to make you like your LX less, then quickly get back in contact with the GM, and tell them that you're not going to be satisfied unless they take the hit and get you a new car.

I think your chances of being take care of are fairly high.

Based on how things went the other night, I suspect the chances of them getting me an all new vehicle are slim and there's no legal basis for it.

 

[cruiserheadrat]

Was it an IRA dealer?

 

[greynolds]

Was it an IRA dealer?

Sure is - Ira Lexus in Danvers, MA.

 

[cary]

Was it an IRA dealer?

Holy crap, when the Irish Republican Army start selling cars?!!! You better be nice as hell to that GM, if your not, your truck may blow up with you in it.

 

[greynolds]

Holy crap, when the Irish Republican Army start selling cars?!!! You better be nice as hell to that GM, if your not, your truck may blow up with you in it.

I hope they just replace that wiring harness and don't any extra stuff in there .

 

[Gohawks63]

I disagree that you can't get a good match on the paint.

My wife backed into a fire hydrant on our six month old 'Cruiser back in '04. It required replacing the bumper cover and matching it with the bodyside moulding (I have a white Cruiser with the copper trim and bumpers). The body shop guy said that with the metallics, you can't just go off of the paint code. You have to match it against the old bumper.

Almost two years later and I challenge anybody to be able to tell the difference. If they are giving you a lifetime warranty, I think that's fair.

The extended warranty is nothing to sneeze at, provided it's a genuine Toyota/Lexus warranty. I paid close to $1,500 for a bumper-to-bumper $0 deductible warranty. The Lexus one may cost a bit more.

Right-on with replacing the wiring harness. Provided that's done, then you should be golden.

The Red Sox tickets wouldn't be a big deal for me, then again I'm a Cubs, or actually a Chicago Blackhawks fan (no comments).

The only additional thing I would do is try to get another service or two out of them as someone else mentioned.

Lemon law is unrealistic since the vehicle isn't out of commission due to repeated failures due to quality or workmanship. If you still have problems after the wiring harness is replaced, then that's another story.

As has been stated, unfortunately accidents happen, and it really sucks when it happens to your $60k+ vehicle, but it looks as though your dealer is trying to make it right.

 

[greynolds]

The extended warranty is nothing to sneeze at, provided it's a genuine Toyota/Lexus warranty. I paid close to $1,500 for a bumper-to-bumper $0 deductible warranty. The Lexus one may cost a bit more.

The Lexus Platinum 7 year / 100k mile $0 deductible warranty is listed at $2700 on the Lexus web site. That's what I expect to get - the non-platinum version doesn't cover some obvious (in this situation, especially) things like air bag wiring .

Right-on with replacing the wiring harness. Provided that's done, then you should be golden.

This one I'm going to need to be very careful to make sure they did. The GM verbally agreed to it, but the service tech seems vague about it. It sounds like it should be ready tomorrow and I'll be going there with a checklist of things to make sure have been done and don't intend to leave the dealership until they are done or at least commited to in writing.

The Red Sox tickets wouldn't be a big deal for me, then again I'm a Cubs, or actually a Chicago Blackhawks fan (no comments).

Given that the Red Sox are the local team and pretty hot tickets (as in hard to get as they sell out the entire season) the last few years, this isn't as trivial a perk as it might seem. I'm not really a baseball fan, so I'd prefer Boston Bruins tickets, but they only have Red Sox available and my brother is a big baseball fan, so it works.

Regarding the Blackhawks thing, all I can say is I feel sorry for you . Though as a Bruins fan, I sort of feel your pain - just not to the same degree.

The only additional thing I would do is try to get another service or two out of them as someone else mentioned.

I suspect that may happen in hopes that I'll give them an excellent rating on the all important survey.

 

[mobi-arc]

Sat on a plane next to a guy who underwrites those extended warranty policies. Dealer pays about $350, anything above is pure profit and completely negotiable.

 

[e9999]

I had a hood repainted once. Perfect color match. Looked great. Highly recommended body shop.
5 years later, the paint shows a pattern of fine cracks. Rest of the car doesn't...

 

[kcdude]

6yr/75k Toyota Warranty...just paid $675....Platinum, $0 deductible....a bunch of margin, yes...so no big deal for the dealer, but worth a bunch to the consumer.

I would still call Lexus Cust Service and demand a $1k customer loyalty check.....WITH all of the other items discussed in this thread.

 

[tabraha]

greynolds, hang in there man!

 

[greynolds]

Well, unfortunately things seem to be taking a turn for the worse.

I got a call from the general manager around 6PM tonight. The gist of it is that they're trying to back out of replacing the wiring harness. He was complaining that it was a big job, would be expensive, and since I'm getting the extended warranty, I shouldn't be worried. My response was that the extended warranty is a nice perk, but doesn't do anything to ease my concerns about air bag safety. I told him if they aren't willing to replace the wiring harness they have 2 other options - give me something in writing that states that what was done to the harness will have no impact on the functionality of the air bags OR replace the vehicle. He said they didn't want to take on the liability of signing a statement (which I can certainly understand - it opens them to a major lawsuit if I'm ever in an accident and the air bags don't deploy for whatever reason). He also still wasn't keen on replacing the vehicle. He started trying to tell me that the GuidePoint install hadn't, in fact, impacted the air bag wiring but it was clear he had no idea what he was talking about and one of their service technicians had already told me that the air bag wiring had been affected last Friday. I got the impression that there might actually be a better chance of a replacement vehicle (however unwilling they may be) than getting the air bag harness replaced. Aside from the air bag wiring issue, he said the vehicle should be ready for pick up tomorrow. The conversation ended with him saying he has to talk to his superiors (I guess that would be the owner of the dealership?) and get back to me in a day or 2.

After I got off the phone with him, I put a call into Lexus Customer Satisfaction. I'm sure they'll get in touch with the dealer, but have no idea how helpful they can or will be.

At this point, I think it's time to get a lawyer involved - until now I really didn't see the point as the dealer seemed to be willing to do the right thing and make things right. I honestly think I've been more than reasonable up till now, but my patience has it's limits and has run out at this point. This is a major purchase for me and has been the 2nd least pleasant car ownership experience of my life (and is fast heading to be the least pleasant).

I realize my experience here is highly unusual for either Toyota or Lexus, but it's really souring me on the company.

To those who suggested in various ways that I need to get a spine (etc.), the dealership ain't seen nothing yet! No more mister nice guy .

 

[jp213a]

Greynolds: Here's the SRS pre-check procedure from the 2002 FSM.

a. Turn the ignition switch to the ACC or ON position and check that the SRS warning light lights up
b. Check that the SRS warning light goes out after approx. 6 seconds.
Hint: When the ignition switch is at ACC or ON and the SRS warning light remains ON or flashes, the airbag sensor assembly has detected a malfunction code.
If, after appprox. 6 seconds have elapsed, the SRS warning light sometimes lights up or the SRS warning light lights up even when the ignition switch is OFF, a short in the SRS warning light circuit can be considerd likely. Proceed to SRS warning light circuit malfunction on pged DI-607

Good luck when you pick up your vehicile.

 

[SINCITY100]

Well, unfortunately things seem to be taking a turn for the worse.

At this point, I think it's time to get a lawyer involved - until now I really didn't see the point as the dealer seemed to be willing to do the right thing and make things right. I honestly think I've been more than reasonable up till now, but my patience has it's limits and has run out at this point. This is a major purchase for me and has been the 2nd least pleasant car ownership experience of my life (and is fast heading to be the least pleasant).

I realize my experience here is highly unusual for either Toyota or Lexus, but it's really souring me on the company.

To those who suggested in various ways that I need to get a spine (etc.), the dealership ain't seen nothing yet! No more mister nice guy .

GO GET EM` TIGER !!

 

[tech_dog]

Well, unfortunately things seem to be taking a turn for the worse.

To those who suggested in various ways that I need to get a spine (etc.), the dealership ain't seen nothing yet! No more mister nice guy .

Be sure to give them this link and let them know that a lot of Toyota and Lexus fans are waiting to see if they take care of you.

Lexus won't want a reasonable customer screwed over in public.