brooklyn
SILVER Star
buy this http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/4929741102.html
and combine with what is good on the truck you just purchased.
and combine with what is good on the truck you just purchased.
"new" '78 - to restore or not to restore?
- Thread starter Yellow Jacket
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #22
That's not a bad idea to combine with another truck that has a decent tub, but I'm not sure that one qualifies with the cut wheel wells and diamond plate on the back. I'll hold out for a better example.
There have to be worse in PA. I have worse in IL. If you want to learn to weld and make it into a driver/trail vehicle-it can be done but I'd forget buying replacement panels-$$ . Make your own from 14 ga steel and focus on making it SOLID-not pristine.
First, my intention is not to offend in any way.
To me the point of a "restoration" is to make the vehicle as close to the way it was when it left the factory, that's the definition of the word. Some people strive for darn near perfection and others set their sights much lower. From the initial post it sounded like the OP wanted a very nice original FJ40. In terms of the scope of a restoration, the closer the subject is to the goal of the project; vehicle condition, completeness of all the components, etc, the easier the job and lower the cost. That's stating the obvious....
I see a pretty complete vehicle but the body is terrible and the frame isn't much better. I think of rust (from "best" to "worst") as light surface rust (easily removed with a Scotchbrite pad), some minor pitting, heavy pitting, some perforation and extensive perforation. The frame is well beyond "surface rust". Rust is pervasive and it makes the job much less fun. Many, if not most, bolts break off when you try and remove them. When you start cutting away rusty panels you end up cutting (and replacing) much more than you originally thought would be necessary. Costs escalate rapidly! To replace a panel there has to be something to attach (weld) it to. If the adjoining panel has rust issues when you try to weld to it, it will disappear.
As I said above I don't want to offend you, but my personal opinion is this is not a good candidate, and like brooklyn and Yellow Jacket said, get another FJ40 without the rust issues and combine the two. The one listed on in the LA craigslist may or may not have cut wheel wells and it's possible the diamond plate may be for looks and not just hiding rust. I don't know, but it would be worth your time to ask for a bunch of photos and perhaps a local 'Mudder could check it out for you. I did note that while that is listed as a 1978 the windshield frame is from an earlier vehicle. The best sheet metal is oem.
I didn't see a top, side doors or ambulance doors in your photos and I don't recall that you mentioned those. What's your plan with a top and doors?
Good luck with your project!
To me the point of a "restoration" is to make the vehicle as close to the way it was when it left the factory, that's the definition of the word. Some people strive for darn near perfection and others set their sights much lower. From the initial post it sounded like the OP wanted a very nice original FJ40. In terms of the scope of a restoration, the closer the subject is to the goal of the project; vehicle condition, completeness of all the components, etc, the easier the job and lower the cost. That's stating the obvious....
I see a pretty complete vehicle but the body is terrible and the frame isn't much better. I think of rust (from "best" to "worst") as light surface rust (easily removed with a Scotchbrite pad), some minor pitting, heavy pitting, some perforation and extensive perforation. The frame is well beyond "surface rust". Rust is pervasive and it makes the job much less fun. Many, if not most, bolts break off when you try and remove them. When you start cutting away rusty panels you end up cutting (and replacing) much more than you originally thought would be necessary. Costs escalate rapidly! To replace a panel there has to be something to attach (weld) it to. If the adjoining panel has rust issues when you try to weld to it, it will disappear.
As I said above I don't want to offend you, but my personal opinion is this is not a good candidate, and like brooklyn and Yellow Jacket said, get another FJ40 without the rust issues and combine the two. The one listed on in the LA craigslist may or may not have cut wheel wells and it's possible the diamond plate may be for looks and not just hiding rust. I don't know, but it would be worth your time to ask for a bunch of photos and perhaps a local 'Mudder could check it out for you. I did note that while that is listed as a 1978 the windshield frame is from an earlier vehicle. The best sheet metal is oem.
I didn't see a top, side doors or ambulance doors in your photos and I don't recall that you mentioned those. What's your plan with a top and doors?
Good luck with your project!
- Thread starter
- #25
Interesting update on CCOT website about tubs coming in the Spring: http://coolfj40.stores.yahoo.net/tubbodyfj40.html
May just wait for this to come around.
May just wait for this to come around.
- Thread starter
- #26
Jay - no offense taken. I'm looking for everyone's opinions and I appreciate yours as well. I tend to look at 40s as what they could be and I'm not always as objective as I should be. I was sold on this one for all of the originality and the strong motor. Didn't hurt that it was local and cheap. I'm just trying to decide how best to move forward with it. I can see folks point on the just scrapping the 3/4 tub and replacing it whole. That makes sense to me, so I'll keep my eyes open for either just a used tub or a whole project for sale, which also debating aftermarket tubs like the one from CCOT that is coming or wait for Iron Pig's version or maybe even Aqualu (but that's a distant 3rd option in my mind.)
It didn't come with a top or doors. I have a extra top already, so that didn't bother me. I'll need to source doors at some point.
It kinda reminds me of a couple I looked at up here when I was looking for a 40. Isn't too far gone in my opinion, especially if the mechanicals are good. It will make a nice project assuming you have the time and money (of course). If the frame is gone only in the spots noted in your pics, definitely repairable. I'd seriously consider a 1/2-3/4 tub or a good used one which will jump you ahead significantly with your project.
Can you weld? Great opportunity to learn. It amazes me what others here have accomplished based on the guts and willingness to try something new.
I am a bit of a purist myself, but my truck will never be 100%, and accordingly its a "refurbishment" for me. I try to stay as pure as possible, and as close to Toyota heritage as possible. I've learned patience is a virtue in this game and to expect it is going to cost more than anticipated. I checked mine out pretty good when I bought it, but there was still a couple of surprises. It is what it is.
Good luck with your decision.
Can you weld? Great opportunity to learn. It amazes me what others here have accomplished based on the guts and willingness to try something new.
I am a bit of a purist myself, but my truck will never be 100%, and accordingly its a "refurbishment" for me. I try to stay as pure as possible, and as close to Toyota heritage as possible. I've learned patience is a virtue in this game and to expect it is going to cost more than anticipated. I checked mine out pretty good when I bought it, but there was still a couple of surprises. It is what it is.
Good luck with your decision.
brian
SILVER Star
the frame is fine, other than a little bit on the back end. i don't see anything on the tub that some money and elbow grease can't fix.
not being able to weld is wrong place to be in, when dealing with a project like this. either buying a tub, 3/4 tub or the panels to fix this one is going to be money. i went with panel, and dont regret it one bit. ccot's are worth the "extra"money over real steels.
not being able to weld is wrong place to be in, when dealing with a project like this. either buying a tub, 3/4 tub or the panels to fix this one is going to be money. i went with panel, and dont regret it one bit. ccot's are worth the "extra"money over real steels.
- Thread starter
- #29
Thanks for all of the comments. At this point I still want to take it on, so I'm on the hunt for a 3/4 or full tub. If anyone has a lead on one let me know. I'm aware of the aftermarket versions and may go that route, but I have some time to look for a used one.
POR15 the frame and get an aqualu tub.
Wow - you've certainly got your work cut out with you on this one! This is definitely a good opportunity to learn how to weld...reminds me a lot of @toomanytoyzz project - I think he might have sold it, I haven't seen him on here in a while, but I recall him basically rebuilding a 40 panel-by-panel. It can be done, HOW you do it is another story. If you're going for a restoration - find a donor tub, or go with replacement panels. I have nothing against the Aqualu tubs, but they're not even close to a "carbon copy." I've heard the opposite of @brian regarding Real Steel panels vs. CCOT. I've generally heard good things about Real Steel, less so about CCOT...That said, I have no personal experience with either. Good luck! Once I get moved into the new place (and fix the 3,000 water leaks that seemed to spring up the second I signed my life away) I can lend a hand if you need it. In the meanwhile, I'll be digging up a well pipe buried 8ft in the dirt.
Millardo
'72 FJ40
I didn't read any previous posts because I didn't want to cloud or impair my initial thought after examining the photos closely.
In short, I'm sorry to say this poor 40 is a rust bucket. If you are intent on doing a near perfect factory restoration, it will NEVER happen, not for under a zillion dollars anyway. I am just finishing a COMPLETE body off, EVERYTHING in pieces, near factory restoration. A 10 year project. Keep this one for mechanical parts if they are mostly there, but find a 40 in better shape than this poor gal for your restoration. I know what is involved, how much it costs, and what kind of work people do. I did everything on mine except sew the upholstery, even though I considered buying a sewing machine and giving it a shot. I personally did the metal fabrication, welding, sand blasting, painting, engine, and all mechanical rebuild. AND it still cost an arm and a leg. Do yourself a favor, sell this one to someone that wants to hack it up. and find yourself a better candidate.
Sorry man. I just don't want to be the guy that says go for it dude. And then have it be a project you dump a ton of cash into and end up short of your resto goal.
In short, I'm sorry to say this poor 40 is a rust bucket. If you are intent on doing a near perfect factory restoration, it will NEVER happen, not for under a zillion dollars anyway. I am just finishing a COMPLETE body off, EVERYTHING in pieces, near factory restoration. A 10 year project. Keep this one for mechanical parts if they are mostly there, but find a 40 in better shape than this poor gal for your restoration. I know what is involved, how much it costs, and what kind of work people do. I did everything on mine except sew the upholstery, even though I considered buying a sewing machine and giving it a shot. I personally did the metal fabrication, welding, sand blasting, painting, engine, and all mechanical rebuild. AND it still cost an arm and a leg. Do yourself a favor, sell this one to someone that wants to hack it up. and find yourself a better candidate.
Sorry man. I just don't want to be the guy that says go for it dude. And then have it be a project you dump a ton of cash into and end up short of your resto goal.
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