Need Help with Possible Seized 3B (1 Viewer)

[Showroom]

Looking for help diagnosing with what I think is a seized engine. I drove home one day
and parked. The BJ was running with no issue. (BJ42 4 speed). The next morning I glowed and it cranked.
I got a puff of smoke and just a click whenever turning the key afterwards. Actually it was
more of a chuk ( a firm click). My batts are good but tested and charged them anyways. Thought
it was starter so brought it to an electric shop. The starter is fine. So I said let's put a bar on the crank.
The crank would not budge in either direction. Not even a mm. Pulled plugs but no difference.
I figure if I lost a cup it would turn a little in one direction or another.

I pulled the valve cover and everything is in place. A popped valve would be obvious. So I pulled pan. Pan is clean
as a whistle. Bottom end, pistons and sleeves all seem to be in place/top shape.

#4 Intake side

#3 Intake side

#2 Intake side

#1 Intake side

The last thing I did on her was replace the clutch master cyl. I drove for a few weeks before this happened.
The clutch was firm and shifting great. I had my boys push her while I left it in gear and depressed the clutch.
She rolls so I don't think something has "let go" in the clutch. I was hoping someone here might have
experienced something similar with a "seized" 3B with no symptoms. The car was running fine. Oil changed regularly
and cooling system is all new. Idle was getting high and I have the diaphragm on hand to replace. But gotta solve this first.
Mechanic friend stopped by and was stumped. I'm hoping a 3B master has seen this before.

Anyone have any ideas before I pull off the head and front cover? Maybe it's a gear tooth. I got a pic of the bottom gear
and it looks nice. But who knows. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Showroom]

Pic of crank gear

 

[stevebradford]

Pull all four of your glow plugs and then try to turn it over. It’s possible coolent has hydro locked a piston.

How was the oil when you drained it, wasn’t extremely low?

 

[Showroom]

Tried that - crank won't budge an inch. Coolant level is full. It has been eating a bit of oil but I've been keeping an eye on it. The level was normal.

 

[robmobile73]

Is it possible that something to do with the clutch fork has come undone and jammed the pressure plate against the flywheel housing? I only say this because you said that you changed the master cylinder. Not sure how those parts between the slave and throwout bearing fit together, but if they wedge together on fulcrum points with some pressure it may be possible that pressure was relieved upon master cylinder removal and that they got out of proper alignment yet still worked when you put it back together.

I throw this Idea out there as the clutch was the last thing you worked on and you seem to have checked everything else. Never seen it happen.

 

[Showroom]

Yeah I'm hoping it's clutch related. It's logical from what I'm seeing. The innards look pristine. I bet the geartrain is pristine too. It was running like a top. I'd also rather attack the clutch than remove the head or front cover unnecessarily. I was just hoping somebody would have recognised this odd situation and had a known solution. But thanks for the responses thus far guys.

 

[gerg]

Put a socket on the crank nut and rotate it in reverse. You might find it locked up on one part of its rotation.

 

[Showroom]

I tried rotating in both directions. Used quite a bit of force. Didn't go too crazy though. Maybe 40 ft. lbs of tq. It won't budge.

 

[Neilium]

Looking for help diagnosing with what I think is a seized engine. I drove home one day
and parked. The BJ was running with no issue. (BJ42 4 speed). The next morning I glowed and it cranked.
I got a puff of smoke and just a click whenever turning the key afterwards. Actually it was
more of a chuk ( a firm click). My batts are good but tested and charged them anyways. Thought
it was starter so brought it to an electric shop. The starter is fine. So I said let's put a bar on the crank.
The crank would not budge in either direction. Not even a mm. Pulled plugs but no difference.
I figure if I lost a cup it would turn a little in one direction or another.

I pulled the valve cover and everything is in place. A popped valve would be obvious. So I pulled pan. Pan is clean
as a whistle. Bottom end, pistons and sleeves all seem to be in place/top shape.
View attachment 2400541

#4 Intake side
View attachment 2400543

#3 Intake side
View attachment 2400548

#2 Intake side
View attachment 2400549

#1 Intake side
View attachment 2400550

The last thing I did on her was replace the clutch master cyl. I drove for a few weeks before this happened.
The clutch was firm and shifting great. I had my boys push her while I left it in gear and depressed the clutch.
She rolls so I don't think something has "let go" in the clutch. I was hoping someone here might have
experienced something similar with a "seized" 3B with no symptoms. The car was running fine. Oil changed regularly
and cooling system is all new. Idle was getting high and I have the diaphragm on hand to replace. But gotta solve this first.
Mechanic friend stopped by and was stumped. I'm hoping a 3B master has seen this before.

Anyone have any ideas before I pull off the head and front cover? Maybe it's a gear tooth. I got a pic of the bottom gear
and it looks nice. But who knows. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[gr8ful]

Not a 3b, but almost 30 years ago, my 65 ford Galaxie did exactly this (390, automatic). We took everything in the world off, trying to figure out the issue. Finally decided to pull the engine for rebuild, because something must be broken & lodged in there, only to have it free up completely when seperated from the tranny. Took the Grammy to a shop & they confirmed that nothing was wrong with it either. Put it all back together and have driven it ever since with no issues. Still no clue what happened.

I’d say seperate the tranny just to check, before pulling more things apart!

Best
Abe

 

[Showroom]

Not a 3b, but almost 30 years ago, my 65 ford Galaxie did exactly this (390, automatic). We took everything in the world off, trying to figure out the issue. Finally decided to pull the engine for rebuild, because something must be broken & lodged in there, only to have it free up completely when seperated from the tranny. Took the Grammy to a shop & they confirmed that nothing was wrong with it either. Put it all back together and have driven it ever since with no issues. Still no clue what happened.

I’d say seperate the tranny just to check, before pulling more things apart!

Best
Abe

Thanks for that. I guess the only way I'm gonna resolve this is by separating the tranny. Will remove front clip and front engine cover just to inspect gears. But engine is so clean I'm sure it's in the clutch area. Once the clip is off and I've eliminated the front gears being messed up, I'll pull the drivetrain . Then replace clutch, rear engine seal and whatever bits I find when the thing is apart. It's also an opportunity to give the frame some love.

 

[lacalvette]

Hey, just have a tough, you may have a quick look at your transmission shifter linkage, just in case the linkage place the transmission in forward and reverse at same time, have no idea if it is possible but, I'm just playing with an H55F with the top cover removed. If I slide the first gear collar in and the reverse in, everything is lock... no movement possible...

 

[Showroom]

Do you mean the crankshaft is locked. Or just the shifter is locked? My engine won't turn but the gearshift works ok.

 

[lacalvette]

Well, just a tough. If it was the case, it would mean the clutch would not disengage and the linkage inside the tranny would be kind of broken... I mean the transmission to be lock, not the engine's crankshaft, sorry.
Curious about what's going on with your 3B.

 

[Showroom]

I hope to drop the tranny this weekend and have a look. But I never have time to work on it. I'll update this post when I find out.

 

[lacalvette]

Last time I saw a seized engine, it was a brand new block on an Alco v18. Machinist leave some material inside oil passage on a main bearing cap. Turn in a total lost! (Had a crankcase explosion too) Crank wouldn't turn after even with a giant bar with one person jumping on it. I don't think this is the case with your 3B...

 

[Showroom]

I hope not!

 

[OTBT]

I have had 4 B diesels fail (seize-up) and they have all had bearing issues. As a consequence, I have rebuilt 4 engines so I know the b, 2b and 3b diesels more intimately than I would like. Firstly, can you put a 25mm socket on the front of the crank (where the fan belt pulley is) with a big bar to provide some serious leverage ? Don't worry about shearing off the bolt - the torque spec on it is about 100 lb or so. You should be able to at least wiggle the crank a little bit. If the crank will still not move at all, then I can think of at least 2 other possibilities: a valve has broken and is wedged in one of the cylinders; or, something has caught in a flywheel tooth. Either way, it is not catastrophic.

 

[Showroom]

That's encouraging. I'm gonna order a clutch and seals etc. and do this in the spring. Really think it's in the flywheel area. Thanks

 

[lacalvette]

Hi, have you had a chance to remove the starter ? If for any reason when you first tried to start and it failed with the gear stuck in the flywheel, wonder if that would be enough to seize the 3b?
This post can be delete...just saw that you already check the starter...
Just took appart an 1983 3b and had a hard time to remove the crank. It's been rebuild. Finnally the thrust bearing on those one are one piece with the shell and the whole bearing turned 90 degree.. making some damage on the journal..seem it was still turning...