Need help identifying wires please!

[jgranthevagrant]

Look closely down the right hand side of the timing chain passage. The chain tends to wear through the timing cover, and then the oil and coolant mix.

 

[pappy]

The two most common place to get water into the engine are:

1. Head gasket.
2. Timing chain cover. The guides break and the chain wears a groove into the cover into a water jacket.

I vote for#2.

 

[PAToyota]

So I figured I'd prep for timing this motor and pull the valve cover. [snip] Thoughts??

Thought #1 - I hope you got that truck cheap…

Thought #2 - Even bought cheap, it’s going to be expensive by the time you get it running.

 

[sn22]

Thanks for the comments guys, except you PAToyota! LOL, just kidding. I did pick it up cheap so as of now I do not have that much invested. Looking down into the timing chain galley I can see the guides are intact and the timing cover is new. PO told me he did new guides and timing cover and of course I can see its new just by looking at it as its bright aluminum compared to everything else. I am going to inspect closer tonight when I get home and will report back.
I should mention too that when I picked this up the guy had a brand new remanned cylinder head still wrapped from TopLine. I asked him about it and he kinda shrugged it off like he just "had it laying around". That was my first sign of skepticism. Since this is the turbo motor the head has a particular combustion chamber shape. The head he included looks to me to be for a regular 22R engine as its combustion chamber is much smaller. I verified this by looking at pics on the 22RE Performance website.
So my next steps are to do a compression test via the FSM procedure as well as setting timing and throwing on a new wire set as the old one was junk and then assess from there. I am also going to borrow a buddies bore scope and peak down the cylinders and see what the walls look like and make sure theres no holes in the tops of pistons

 

[Mudder]

Autos do not have a different combustion chamber than manuals. the turbo motor is what has the different combustion chambers. By using a regular head you'll increase the compression a little bit which could be helpfully if you ever upgrade the turbo. If you do the heads you should also use studs and not bolts, it'll help you not blow a head gasket.

 

[sn22]

If that were me I'd be pulling the whole motor and going through every inch of it turbo'd or not. I will admit I'm jealous you have a turbo 4runner.

I hear ya mudder but at this point I just want to see if I can get it to fire plus I am learning alot along the way. I am wondering if the PO may have timed in incorrectly and the head has bent valves or something. I'll know more after doing a compression test.

 

[Kris]

@pappy, I would be inclined to disagree with you. If @sn22 is only getting ~50psi on cylinder 3, my guess would be a head gasket issue. Although I am a little biased since I have the same problem in my 22rte.

The "nice" thing is that you can use a late-model 22re head on a 22rte. You get a slight compression ratio increase and they are easier/cheaper to source.

Good luck on your turbo journey!

 

[pappy]

@pappy, I would be inclined to disagree with you.

So, be that way.

Either way, if the timing cover and guides were replaced by the PO, then the question is what else was done/not done? Is all that milkshake on the chain from the previous chain, like it was not replaced with the cover and guides? Could something have been fubared when the head was reinstalled, or loosened, during the cover replacement? Also, keep in mind that a new cover, in theory, needs to be milled to the deck height of the block.

If you replace the head gasket, please don't use a Felpro. I've had three of them fail (not installed by me). Get a Toyota gasket. Torque it properly. Check the torque after 5K miles or so (for chuckles and grins). And don't look back for 200k miles.

 

[sn22]

@pappy, I would be inclined to disagree with you. If @sn22 is only getting ~50psi on cylinder 3, my guess would be a head gasket issue. Although I am a little biased since I have the same problem in my 22rte.

The "nice" thing is that you can use a late-model 22re head on a 22rte. You get a slight compression ratio increase and they are easier/cheaper to source.

Good luck on your turbo journey!

I must say when I did the compression test last night I was in a hurry and did not follow the FSM procedure so I am going to redo it tonight the correct way. Also since this motor has been sitting for a while I am going to put a little oil down each spark plug hole to make sure I am getting some ring seal as well.

Good to know I can use the replacement head I was given when I bought the 4Runner, at least if I have bent valves I'll have a head I can swap in. If I do end up replacing head gasket I may go the Cometic MLS route as long as my surfaces are nice and flat and smooth. But like you said Pappy, cant go wrong with OEM either and another 200K. I will definately use studs when doing the head gasket if it comes to that.

Thanks Pappy too for the comments on the timing cover height etc. I will inspect all that close up this evening and report back.
Thanks again guys, appreciate all of your comments!

 

[Kris]

If you are running a stock turbo (CT-20), then a stock head gasket and head studs will be fine. ARP's are nice if you can find a deal on them, but aren't necessary.

It would be a nice warm-fuzzy if you could get it to run - even if it does run like crap.

@pappy I didn't say I liked disagreeing with you

 

[Mudder]

MLS gaskets need both the head and block to have an RA finish of 50 or better IIRC.

 

[sn22]

Something doesn't look right here....

 

[sn22]

Distributor drive bolt was loose! Timing mark not lined up with shiny link on chain either....good grief.......

 

[sn22]

OK, new course of action after tonights findings and listening to you guys and reading alot on the overall 22R engine platform. Going to do head gasket R&R, install 22RE reman head that I have after I have the combustion chambers enlarged some, take apart front timing cover and reassemble so I know its right. Drop the pan and checkout the mains and see what I can see in there. See if I can find a CT26 Turbo and a header and have 3" exhaust put on it and do the necessary fuel management adjustments to keep everything happy. I will check the block gasket surface and see if its smooth enough for a MLS head gasket and get a stud kit. Keep the boost below 15-20lbs and I think it'll be happy and run out pretty good.

My assessment of the history of this 4Runner is that it was overheated because of poor cooling system maintenance. When the PO dove in to fix it he got in to a certain point and then said F this and threw it back together to sell it. The coolant resevoir was full of slime and Bars leak and the inside of the radiator was gummed up and nasty too. I thought I could take a shortcut and at least get it running but I am this far in I might as well just do it half way right (short of pulling the motor) and get it back on the road. IMHO its too nice to scrap or part out. I'll do several flush and fills with both water and oil to make sure its cleaned out as well. Wish me luck!

 

[KLF]

If you're gonna do all that, just pull the dang motor out. So much easier to work on it when it's on a stand, especially a turbo.

Send the injectors out for cleaning while you have the intake off.

The PO needs to have a beatdown for putting that cam sprocket back together like that.

 

[PAToyota]

My assessment of the history of this 4Runner is that it was overheated because of poor cooling system maintenance. When the PO dove in to fix it he got in to a certain point and then said F this and threw it back together to sell it.

Time and again, I’d much rather buy a “broken” vehicle than one that has been “fixed” due to situations just like yours...

If you're gonna do all that, just pull the dang motor out. So much easier to work on it when it's on a stand

Yep. Every time I’ve done engine work in-frame (beyond basic maintenance), I’ve ended up wishing I just went ahead and pulled the engine.

 

[pappy]

If you're gonna do all that, just pull the dang motor out. So much easier to work on it when it's on a stand, especially a turbo.

Ya, pull the engine because it's a whole lot easier to work on. But, I'm going to take this a step further. Just rebuild the damn thing and call it a day. Pull the engine. Strip it down to the head+block+oil pan+timing cover ... and take it to a machine shop. Let them work their magic. Get a gasket kit (OEM please), and put the engine back together.

It sounds like this engine has suffered plenty of abuse, and instead of putting a bandaid on it, just choke on the cost, but do it right. You could even do a few upgrades at the same time (camshaft, comes to mind).

 

[Kris]

See if I can find a CT26 Turbo and a header and have 3" exhaust put on it and do the necessary fuel management adjustments to keep everything happy. I will check the block gasket surface and see if its smooth enough for a MLS head gasket and get a stud kit. Keep the boost below 15-20lbs and I think it'll be happy and run out pretty good.

Just a heads up:

1 - My 3" down pipe just barely fits - by barely I mean it mostly rubs on the firewall. Granted I have a T3/T4, not a CT20

2 - The only "fuel management adjustments" you can do on a 22re/rte is by removing what Toyota put in there and replacing with megasquirt or some other aftermarket ECU

3 - 15-20 psi is not something that a 22re/rte can withstand for a long period of time without issues. I have to limit the boost on my motor to >10 psi because the stock ECU cannot comprehend what is going on. Basically when you change a bunch of things from stock (ie larger turbo, more boost, intercooler, etc.) that moves you farther and farther away from variables the computer is expecting. Not to mention there is a fault code for over-boosting (14psi I think). Not only is there the fuel management problem, but you will continue to blow head gaskets with that high of boost pressure. Sure you could reduce the compression ratio

I don't mean to shatter your dreams, but to get a 22rte to the level that you have in your mind takes a lot more time and money than slapping a new head on and verifying that the rest of the systems are ok.

All that being said, I really like having a slightly modified 22rte. It makes an awesome noise, I can pull hills in 5th that I had to downshift before, however it is still not a fast vehicle by any means, nor is it a power monster. Remember you are making the jump from ~115hp, 140ftlbs to 135hp, 175ftlbs.

A really good recourse, although current traffic levels are low, 22RTE-Trucks.com has a ton of information on what others have done with stock and non-stock 22rte's.

 

[sn22]

Thanks guys for all the comments, suggestions and feedback, certainly do appreciate it. So last night was another learning, eye opening experience. The bolt backed out allowing the cam gear to move and the locating pins on the cam and cam gear to become disengaged. I am so thankful and lucky now that this motor never started!
Anyways the rest of the night was spent disassembling the motor and removing the cylinder head. Heres some pics:

Notice the puddle of oil (among other things) below where the dist bolt goes. Nice assembly job and i think they used a whole tube of hi temp silicone too, its everywhere......

So I think my original assesment of overheating is incorrect. Looks to me like cylinders 3 & 4 had bad injectors as well as spark plug wires that were not making good contact with the dist cap. On the fuel rail injectors 3 & 4 are new. So I think what originally happened was the injectors went bad, the PO tore into it thinking they were going to fix it and then got in over their head. All the head bolts were loose and there was silicone under the head gasket where the new timing cover was mounted. The timing cover is slightly lower then the head gasket surface so when I reassemble I will put the head on first and put the front bolt from the timing cover to the head in and torque the head down then finish mounting the timing cover. Does this sound right? Anyways I think the brown surface on the cylinder walls in cylinders 3 & 4 is from unspent fuel washing the walls. I may be wrong on this. A little scotch brite and WD40 and it cleaned right up.

Pic from inside the turbo housing, no play in the shaft. Based on others comments on here I am just going to rebuild this turbo and call it good. Not going to get all crazy with a bigger turbo etc etc like I first wanted to. At this point I just want to get it back together and see if it runs.

Going to have local machine shop check the head for cracks and go thru head with new valve stem seals and adjust valves. Two of the ports had some kind of weird fiber stuff blocking them, you can see it in the pic.

I know you guys probably think I am crazy for not pulling the motor and doing a complete freshen up etc etc. I see so many beautifull builds on this site and others of guys basically rebuilding their trucks from the ground up, I can only wish that I had the drive to do that. Unfortunately I just do not have the perserverence to tackle a bigger project like that. I know myself too well. Doing a project like this is a huge step for me. At 50 years old I am pretty in touch with what I can and cant do. What I am hoping is that doing this project and getting it back on the road will give me the confidence to do the next one the "right" way like I see so many of you guys doing on here. Believe me if I had any confidence that I could get it done and see it through to completion I would do it but at this time I am in as deep as I am going to go. I got ahead of myself yesterday in my previous post about saying I was going to get a bigger turbo, big exhaust, fuel management etc etc. I am learning alot doing this and for me thats the fun part! I know your probably shaking your head saying "your going to regret this" but at this time its what I am capable of. So now its off to the shop to get the front of the engine apart and scrape silicone.......UGH.....

 

[KLF]

Die grinder with 3M Scotchbrite pads takes that silicone and dried gaskets right off.