My new 40 won't start...

[Nate89]

Hey guys, I just joined but have been lurking for a while. Anyway, I just purchased a '76 land cruiser in what I would consider good condition for the east coast. Everything appears to be stock which is also a plus, however it's been sitting for a couple years and now it won't start.

Currently it will crank, but not much more. I checked the carb and the bowl is full and the pump works. I tried putting some gas down the carb and it acted like it wanted to start, but only if I pumped the pedal (it didn't even do that on the seconds try) Next, I adjusted the distro to set the static timing at 7* btdc. I also tried it with 7* plus a 30 degrees clockwise turn as suggested in another thread on here. Still nothing...

So I pulled a plug to check spark, and it looked pretty weak to me. I then connected the plug to the coil and still couldn't get a strong spark (I hooked the coil directly to the battery and manually ground it to check spark and could only get a spark from the terminal, not the high voltage output).

I then took off the top part of the carb to check the float and spray everything out. I also tried to adjust the float to get the fuel in the middle of the sight, but it still fills to the top.

I have replaced the starter, battery, and plugs. I also got a new coil, but it didn't seem to help. I've been working on it the past 3 days and haven't seem to have made much progress. This is my first time working on a carb vehicle, but I feel like it should be easier to fix than this. Any help is appreciated. Also, I have searched and read most threads relating to this, but none have helped.

 

[78fj40mg]

The two year old gas could be spent up, have you tried using some fresh gas? Another issue might be a gummed up carb, if the fuel bowl is full to the top then the float needle valve is probably gummed up and stuck in the open position. When you pump the carb do you smell any gas?

BTW. Welcome to MUD!

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Lots of info there, but the part that concerns me is that the bowl is full (not in the middle).
This means that the float is either stuck so that the valve is open or there is junk in the valve causing it to leak.
Usually, this means that it will try to start and then will flood from too much gas.
The other part that concerns me is that you have changed just about everything, so there's no telling if any of those things were right and are now wrong. I would start with the fuel.

If you look in the carb and pump the accelerator, do you see a stream of gas?
If you block the fuel line to the carb (clamp on a hose), does it try to run (until the bowl is empty?)

 

[Nate89]

I drained the old gas and put fresh in. I haven't sniffed the carb yet, but I'll check tomorrow.

When I had the car apart, the float moved freely and I sprayed the needle valve. I tried to remove the needle valve, but couldn't pull the pin on the float. I tested it by spraying cleaner into the fuel inlet and seeing the spray come out, then I moved the float up and the flow stopped so I assumed it worked.

When I pump the accelerator linkage, I don't see any fuel going into the carb.

Right now it doesn't even attempt to start, it just cranks. I tried being methodical when replacing things, currently everything is back to original aside from the new plugs and starter.

Thanks for the welcome!

Sent from my VS985 4G

 

[78fj40mg]

A few pics of your carb might help the troubleshooting process.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

I drained the old gas and put fresh in. I haven't sniffed the carb yet, but I'll check tomorrow.

When I had the car apart, the float moved freely and I sprayed the needle valve. I tried to remove the needle valve, but couldn't pull the pin on the float. I tested it by spraying cleaner into the fuel inlet and seeing the spray come out, then I moved the float up and the flow stopped so I assumed it worked.

When I pump the accelerator linkage, I don't see any fuel going into the carb.

Right now it doesn't even attempt to start, it just cranks. I tried being methodical when replacing things, currently everything is back to original aside from the new plugs and starter.

Thanks for the welcome!

Sent from my VS985 4G

The float test you did sounds right, but if the fuel is at the top of the bowl, then something is clearly not working with the float/valve.
If there's fuel in the bowl but no squirt when you pump the accelerator, then the accel pump is likely also bad (or the ball valve that feeds it).
Whenever a vehicle sits for a couple of years or more, then all the rubber and leather diaphragms tend to go bad.
The fuel pump is one of the first to go. If you say you have fuel flow and the bowl is full, then that's probably not it.
If you don't get a squirt on the accel, then the accelerator pump is likely bad. Pouring some fuel in the carb should help it start and idle, but it's not going to run well without it, especially if the float/valve is also not working right.
Sounds like a rebuild or replacement carb is in your future. There are some good you tube videos by Pinhead on rebuilding the stock carb. If you are methodical (and it sounds like you are), it's not difficult. Google aisin carb rebuild you tube.

Oh yeah, welcome.

 

[JungleBiker]

Is it equipped with a points ignition? If so, have you tried cleaning the points?

 

[ozcrusier]

Welcome
These are cold blooded engines and need full choke to start. I'm not kidding my old 2f's choke cable broke and it took me a day trying to start the bastard until I seen the cable had broke. I hooked up a bit of wire to hold the choke on and bingo it started first try. It does sound like the carb may need a kit with the bowl showing full and also the pump not working but it should still start but have a huge flat spot off idle. Did you pull the carb a blow the galleries out with compressed air as you may have a blockage.

 

[Nate89]

Thanks for the replies. I watched all of pinhead's excellent videos before posting, and I'll probably end up watching them again when I do the rebuild. I'm just trying to get it run long enough so I can pull it off the street and into my parking garage so I don't get towed/broken into. And unfortunately most of my tools are in storage, so I'm doing all my work on the side of the street with a small set of wrenches lol.

I haven't tried cleaning the points yet, but I will and hopefully that will eliminate the ignition system as a culprit. I'll try to remove the carb completely if I can and spray any remaining ports.

This is the stock aisan carb. I assume the accelerator pump is the piston attached to the accelerator pedal linkage. When I had the top off, I moved the pump down and it squirted fuel into the bowl from a little hole in the corner of the bowl next to the pump. I don't know if it's suppose to do that. Excuse my newb-ness [emoji1]

 

[emac]

Air, fuel, spark.

Pull a plug wire, hold it close to a ground (engine block) crank and see if you have spark. If no, forget the carb and backtrack to find ignition issue. Check spark from coil. Spark at coil and none at plug, then concentrate on dizzy. Take logical steps, probably something simple.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Agree. For fuel, pour a couple of ounces of gas in the carb (or a squirt of starter fluid if you have some handy). If it tries to start now, then forget the ignition and concentrate on carb/fuel.

 

[honk]

I don't think I saw it mentioned above so do you hear a "click" when you turn on the key before you attempt to start?

If not, then there's a good chance that your idle stop solenoid is either not wired up or inoperative.

The solenoid stops all fuel flow to the carb's low speed circuit to prevent dieseling or running-on and will prevent starting if it cuts off the fuel. It's activated by the ign switch voltage when the key is on, closes when the key is turned off.

 

[sggoat]

Thanks for the replies. I watched all of pinhead's excellent videos before posting, and I'll probably end up watching them again when I do the rebuild. I'm just trying to get it run long enough so I can pull it off the street and into my parking garage so I don't get towed/broken into. And unfortunately most of my tools are in storage, so I'm doing all my work on the side of the street with a small set of wrenches lol.

I haven't tried cleaning the points yet, but I will and hopefully that will eliminate the ignition system as a culprit. I'll try to remove the carb completely if I can and spray any remaining ports.

This is the stock aisan carb. I assume the accelerator pump is the piston attached to the accelerator pedal linkage. When I had the top off, I moved the pump down and it squirted fuel into the bowl from a little hole in the corner of the bowl next to the pump. I don't know if it's suppose to do that. Excuse my newb-ness [emoji1]

You need to watch them at least 10 times--that way you know the process inside out

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Before you watch them once, figure out if you've got a fuel or ignition problem.
Then either way, watch them at least once because everyone who owns a cruiser should know how their carb works.

 

[sggoat]

If the carb bowl is completely full, I think there is definitely a fuel problem. There's an ignition problem to boot, as you say.-best to take one symptom at a time so you know which one actually fixed the problem. You are prob correct in the ignition, tho' as even with the bowl full, it otta at least fire.

 

[Cleg]

Ditto on Honk's comment above. If you have a carb with a fuel shutoff solenoid that is not working, it would behave like described.
The solenoid is always energized when the ignition is on and closes a needle valve when the ignition turned off to keep the engine from dieseling.

If the solenoid is not getting power or is not working, the engine will not run.
You can put some fuel down the carb and if it tries to run then quits, that may be the issue.
Hold one hand on it and you should be able to hear & feel if it is clicking when you turn the key to the ignition position.
If your carb has no solenoid please disregard this post.

 

[Nate89]

I cleaned the points and no

 

[emac]

Did you check for spark on the plug wires?

 

[emac]

If you have good spark at the plug, that eliminates a lot of other possibilities. (coil,points,dizzy,wiring, etc). Assuming the dizzy has not come loose and rotated.

 

[Nate89]

I cleaned the points and no change.

Funny you mention the solenoid. I don't hear the click with the key, but when i was testing the coil I touched a jumper wire from the coil to the battery and i heard a click. I tried it again and put my hand on the carb and I could feel the solenoid click. So it does work, but I forgot which wire i jumped since this was a few days ago. So let me run my wiring by you guys:

When I swapped the starter, I upgraded from a DD to a GR starter. Using this site, I connected it in the following way:

Cable from battery to pos terminal on starter (pretty sure that one's right)
Large black/white wire to starter solenoid
Small black/white wire left disconnected
Large Yellow wire with a black stripe connected directly to battery positive (this one I'm not 100% on)

For the coil:
There is a small black wire with a white stripe going to the pos terminal (the green connector with the white-ish wire)
From the pos terminal, there is a black jumper wire going to the ballast resistor
From the other end of the resistor, a large black wire with yellow stripe goes back into the harness
From the negative terminal there is a red wire going back into the harness (I assume to the dissy)
There is another wire going from the resistor to what appears to be a condenser, but the other end of the condenser has a wire broken off.