My front drive shaft musing…… (1 Viewer)

[devo]

So, we all know that Mr. Toyota has the front DS on an 80 Series laying almost flat and is 90 degrees out of phase in the stock configuration. This Toyota spec makes sense to me after talking with drive line specialist and some Toyota folks.

While driving my 80 with a mere 3.5 inch lift I start musing about my front DS. Should it remain 90 degrees out of phase? Or because now it is at an angle of 3-4 degrees should it be put into phase?
Rear DS are in phase, the front DS on my 40 and 60 are in phase, am I musing about the front DS on my 80 unnecessarily?



devo

 

[COYS]

Mere 3.5"? That's a significant lift dude. You need a front DC shaft at a minimum. A fettled OEM shaft isn't going to help ya.

 

[SpenserAK]

With caster correction at that lift height, as coys said, it's double cardan time. Check your joint angles - front should be very minimal, while the back will be angled. If you have a CDL button, lock it and pull the front shaft to feel the difference in vibration. Also - did you measure the true lift height, or is that just what the kit is stated to be? DC territory regardless, just curious.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yes

 

[mudgudgeon]

Toyota changed from out of phase to in phase at some point

Or maybe it was the other way around.

I tried both ways with my 4" lifted 80. It made no discernible difference

 

[devo]

I new I picked a good subject. Thanks for the input so far. I know a 3 + inch lift on these sweet 80’s not unusual!

I have castor correction (@landtank ) so no issues there. I’ve gotten so many mixed reviews on the DCDS. Works for some and not for others?

So, if you lifted your 80 did you put your front DS in phase or leave it 90* out? Even if you did a modest 2-2.5 inch lift?



devo

 

[landtank]

At that lift I don’t think you can get a stock shaft to work. The operating angle at the t-case is just too much.

A DC shaft is really the only option. A deceleration growl is the typical situation that gets resolved by installing one.

 

[-Spike-]

I new I picked a good subject. Thanks for the input so far. I know a 3 + inch lift on these sweet 80’s not unusual!

I have castor correction (@landtank ) so no issues there. I’ve gotten so many mixed reviews on the DCDS. Works for some and not for others?

So, if you lifted your 80 did you put your front DS in phase or leave it 90* out? Even if you did a modest 2-2.5 inch lift?



devo

It doesn't matter which way you put it, the angles are wrong for either. Also note; if you change it, the shaft needs to be re-balanced.

 

[devo]

This is great, thank you.

So, my next muse. If the DS is vibrating due to bad rotational angles it destroys the U-joints. Do the U-joints absorb all of the vibration or does the vibration also cause adverse effects at the TC output and the pinion?

 

[robnicko]

I new I picked a good subject. Thanks for the input so far. I know a 3 + inch lift on these sweet 80’s not unusual!

I have castor correction (@landtank ) so no issues there. I’ve gotten so many mixed reviews on the DCDS. Works for some and not for others?

So, if you lifted your 80 did you put your front DS in phase or leave it 90* out? Even if you did a modest 2-2.5 inch lift?



devo

I have a 2" lift with CCorection and the DS is as it was intended at 90deg offset, been that way since 1998 or 1999 - cant quite remember !

mind you i did once put it in phase in error after I removed it to clean & regrease the splines and it didnt so much vibrate but made a rumble type sound when the front wheels were turned and accelerating from a stop.
I promptly figured out it was meant to be 90deg out of phase and put it back. I put this to down to learning the ropes of the 80

 

[60 toy ota]

I have a 2" lift with CCorection and the DS is as it was intended at 90deg offset

How does this work? Doesn't correcting the caster only steepen the driveline angle?

 

[robnicko]

How does this work? Doesn't correcting the caster only steepen the driveline angle?

it does by a smidge however no vibration or ill affects
the steering feel is much better improved and return to centre works as it should.
When I did the 2" lift i didnt do CCorection immediately and drove it for a couple of weeks but hated it as it felt vague and return to centre needed me to assist it

 

[landtank]

This is great, thank you.

So, my next muse. If the DS is vibrating due to bad rotational angles it destroys the U-joints. Do the U-joints absorb all of the vibration or does the vibration also cause adverse effects at the TC output and the pinion?

vibrations effect everything. You really don’t want them at all.

 

[SlowJoe8]

install the double cardan front ds don’t look back! Just did this on my LX and vibes/grinding is gone

 

[devo]

Where did you get your DCDS?
And what kind of lift are you running?

devo

 

[SlowJoe8]

Where did you get your DCDS?
And what kind of lift are you running?

devo

I’m running a 2.5 OME with a .5” spacer up front. Everything was good but I had a little bit of vibration and couldn’t pinpoint it since I bought the car with the lift already installed. When I put the spacers in things got way worse. Vibes were bad at 45+ mph and bad at freeway speed deceleration.

I went with a Tom Woods double cardan from 4x4 shafts in Utah. Solid guys…they had it built and shipped within a week.

If you end up going with the double cardan, make sure you take pictures of your driveshaft position at the bolts to keep it in phase. I had to adjust my Tom Woods to retain the correct phasing at the front.

 

[FMC80]

Tom Woods drive shafts have great reviews, good prices, fast turns.

 

[baldilocks]

@devo - Earlier in this thread you stated that the dc shaft works for some and not for others. The dc shaft will run smoothly if there is zero to about 1 deg of angle off from a 90 deg angle formed between the shaft tube and the front companion flange mating surface. Within 1-1.5 degrees of the shaft being perfectly inline with the pinion shaft is what most shops will tell you. Anyone who says a dc shaft didn’t run smoothly has a pinion angle or balance issue.

I think some folks are under the impression that if a driveline vibrates all that one needs to do is bolt on the ole “it can solve all driveline vibe issues dc shaft” and that’s not true.

If you really do have 3.5” of lift and your castor (which is also related to pinion flange angle) is within factory spec then a dc shaft should work for you, at least it did for me back when I ran 850j springs up front with Slee castor plates.

Landtank usually stocks front dc shafts made from all Toyota parts. I’ve been running 1310 size dc joints with Spicer Life Series joints front and rear for several years now. They have taken some abuse and I finally broke the front one last fall; not the U-joints, the dc assembly. When I buy another one I’ll see about ordering from LT bc Toyota drivelines are notoriously strong.

 

[SlowJoe8]

To be fair I did install castor plates at the same time I did the front coil spacers. Then upgraded to the DC shaft.

 

[baldilocks]

I’m running a 2.5 OME with a .5” spacer up front. Everything was good but I had a little bit of vibration and couldn’t pinpoint it since I bought the car with the lift already installed. When I put the spacers in things got way worse. Vibes were bad at 45+ mph and bad at freeway speed deceleration.

I went with a Tom Woods double cardan from 4x4 shafts in Utah. Solid guys…they had it built and shipped within a week.

If you end up going with the double cardan, make sure you take pictures of your driveshaft position at the bolts to keep it in phase. I had to adjust my Tom Woods to retain the correct phasing at the front.

I’m quite sure that any shop including TW will hand you a driveline that’s ready to install with no interventions needed. Once an 80 is lifted even just 2”, the yokes need to be in-phase.