My Cummins 6BT Story

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@turbophil - You are the first I have seen notch the oil pan to clear the connecting link. In your opinion, is that only needed for stock to 2.5" lifted truck? I know Dustin's kit is designed around lowering the steering box support to clear the oil pan...was that lowered on your rig also?
Well I guess that depends... For street use and things as mild as jumping a curb, I think the pan needs to be notched for stock to 2.5" lift. It WILL hit. I used to rock crawl back in the day. When aticulation is important, you want to be able to stuff the axle up high and tight, so for a lot of articulation, I think you'll want to notch the pan even with a bigger lift, since bump travel may be near the same as stock (the balance and majority of travel being in droop of course). The exception would be if you body lifted and used taller motor mounts.

As they say, "if you need a ruler, it's too close"... or at least that's what I say when it come to driveline clearance on a vehicle that may/will see the trail...

I left my steering box in place and put a small speed dent in the oil pan riwhen the support bar is. It didn't take much to get the clearance needed there (1/2-3/4" inch or so) and since that component doesn't move, the above ruler guideline doesn't apply;)

-Phil
 

mryanangel

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Good to know that I may not need to drop the steering support. How were you able to test your pan welds to make sure it wouldn't leak. I like the idea of the added clearance, but wouldn't consider myself a very skilled welder yet.
 

Mr Cimarron

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No steering support drop here. I do have a body lift, not that it matters with the steering but it helps with hood clearance. Anyone that has to have the steering support lowered probable will need the oil pan notched as well since engine is lower. Hood clearance may not be a factor with the engine sitting lower.
I still think moving the tie rod to the front of the axle should be looked into on these conversions.
 
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Good to know that I may not need to drop the steering support. How were you able to test your pan welds to make sure it wouldn't leak. I like the idea of the added clearance, but wouldn't consider myself a very skilled welder yet.
I didn't test it. More of the hope and pray strategy. I TIG'd the pan, and TIG quite a bit. The big thing is keeping it clean. I spent the time to prep it and the patch panels were very good fits, so I didn't have to fill any large gaps. I really didn't even use much filler rod-- only a couple inches in total where I back weleded the corners. I would not mig weld pan if you can avoid it. If you don't have a TIG, cut the parts and take it to a local who can. That rules out a lot of the guess work.

No steering support drop here. I do have a body lift, not that it matters with the steering but it helps with hood clearance. Anyone that has to have the steering support lowered probable will need the oil pan notched as well since engine is lower. Hood clearance may not be a factor with the engine sitting lower.
I still think moving the tie rod to the front of the axle should be looked into on these conversions.
the rear tie rod is tough, and agree, moving to the front would solve all the issues. Now that the notching is done, not a big deal though... I have VERY little hood clearance. It's enough, but it's minimal.

-Phil
 

Mr Cimarron

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I didn't test it. More of the hope and pray strategy. I TIG'd the pan, and TIG quite a bit. The big thing is keeping it clean. I spent the time to prep it and the patch panels were very good fits, so I didn't have to fill any large gaps. I really didn't even use much filler rod-- only a couple inches in total where I back weleded the corners. I would not mig weld pan if you can avoid it. If you don't have a TIG, cut the parts and take it to a local who can. That rules out a lot of the guess work.

-Phil
How does the overall weld differ between TIG and MIG on something like the oil pan? Not questioning just wondering. I am going on 10 years of s***ty welding with my MIG. I never use it enough to get really good at it. Mostly make brackets and things like that. Fixed a couple metal gates for friends. Haven't even hooked gas up to it yet, been using the s***ty flux core wire.
 
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I MIG'd mine outside first then a second pass inside no leaks. Using a Hobart 250 and .035 and c25 gas. I wouldn't flux core due to a greater chance of porosity/leaks. A thinner wire would be more desirable for thin sheet metal like an oil pan.
 

mryanangel

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I MIG'd mine outside first then a second pass inside no leaks. Using a Hobart 250 and .035 and c25 gas. I wouldn't flux core due to a greater chance of porosity/leaks. A thinner wire would be more desirable for thin sheet metal like an oil pan.
Do you have any pics of what you did to your pan? i thought Phil was the only one that had modded his pan.
 

maxamillion2345

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I don't really trust my mig skills to keep a pan from leaking. In my mind TIG is the only way to go.

I body lifted 2" and I can tuck my trussed 60 pretty decent without clearancing the pan.

But I'm not using any kind of kit...

I also cut out the box support and welded in like 3/8" worth of plate around the box.
 

Mr Cimarron

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I don't really trust my mig skills to keep a pan from leaking. In my mind TIG is the only way to go.

I body lifted 2" and I can tuck my trussed 60 pretty decent without clearancing the pan.

But I'm not using any kind of kit...

I also cut out the box support and welded in like 3/8" worth of plate around the box.
Do you have a photo of that? I assume you can drop your pan now without lifting the engine?
 
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I've been known to be wrong more often than not but that oil pan doesn't look like any I have seen on a Cummins from a Dodge pickup. This come from a bread truck or a pick up or is that unknown?
 
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How does the overall weld differ between TIG and MIG on something like the oil pan? Not questioning just wondering. I am going on 10 years of ****ty welding with my MIG. I never use it enough to get really good at it. Mostly make brackets and things like that. Fixed a couple metal gates for friends. Haven't even hooked gas up to it yet, been using the ****ty flux core wire.
Quite a bit different. You have all but 100% control of the heat and puddle with a TIG. On the other hand, the MIG is going to crank wire into the target area without question. It's possible to do some good MIG welding though--- it's just not comparable to TIG. I'd liken the TIG to the scalpal, the MIG to the axe, and a stick welder to a brush hog :)


I have a millermatic 211 Mig. Is it that the filler wire in a MIG is less desirable than the TIG rod?
With the TIG, you can specify the filler metal to just about anything you want. Typically, people just run what's on the spool with MIG. Fluxcore MIG is about as bad as it gets. Welding MIG with gas shielding is fine, but again, you just don't have the control you do with a TIG-- and that's why I wasn't worried about a leak.

I've been known to be wrong more often than not but that oil pan doesn't look like any I have seen on a Cummins from a Dodge pickup. This come from a bread truck or a pick up or is that unknown?
93 dodge truck according to the tag on the motor. Fair to say there's no guarantee the pan was OE.

I'm going through this now, rumor has it that its metric16X1.5 or M17X1.5
http://www.pscmotorsports.com/6jic-x-17mm-1-5-i-f-return-adapter-for-toyota.html
THANKS!

CJMOON MIGs everything even though there's a perfectly good TIG right down the street at my shop. It makes for good ammo when I want to give him a little hell;)

-Phil
 
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THANKS!

CJMOON MIGs everything even though there's a perfectly good TIG right down the street at my shop. It makes for good ammo when I want to give him a little hell;)

-Phil
So your telling me I can do surgery with an axe!!!

I think that's my style. You think your giving me hell but I take it as a compliment. Doing more with less. But really I pulled the MIG out blow off the dust and unplugged the TIG in your shop last weekend. I thought it was ironic. You thought I was crazy.

It's really about getting comfortable to trust what your doing with what ever method you use. There is more than one way to skin most cats.

I will be having you weld my intercooler tubes. Some times you need scalpels

As far as my oil pan my build thread page 2-3 has the mods. The 4bt can sit lower due to the steering box support being I front of the pan. The sump should be in the same place as the 4bt
 
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Power steering pressure is 16x1.5 i used Borgeson Power Steering Hose Adapters 925121

I have one left but your probably just order hose fittings? order a couple extra for me seems to be the common size. my pump is 5/8 inverted flare but i used the old valve from my amc jeep engine in the dodge pump set up
 
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Dec 1, 2004
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@maxamillion2345, your rig is awesome, man!

In other news, I installed the castor correction kit from Man-A-Fre, http://man-a-fre.com/pa/80seriescastercorrection.htm yesterday. It's complete with sway bar drop, etc. Went from negative castor to positive and solved all issues of the truck finding road grooves. Installation is about as easy as it gets. The only difficult thing about it is wrestling the heavy axle assembly a bit....that and it was little nerve racking having the front most lift point on the cross member, ack! I used the pole jacks to stabilize the truck on the lift, as it seemed a bit tipsy on the lift with it that way! :eek:

Pros to the kit is that it really fixes the geometry the "right way" and it's easy to undo. Cons are that it's not good for rock crawling, as it could easily get hung up. I'm only planning to do trails and street driving, so I think this mod is the right one... Still jonesing for those slee arms for the "cool factor":D...

Next on the list is taller rear springs to level the truck a bit.

Also need to sort out the rear bumper. I need to be able to tow, but the receiver hitch darn near drags in a parking garage let alone going off-road.

Also, unless I'm missing something there's no overdriven high range t-case gears for this box, right? Seems they're only available for the split boxes behind the older 80's A442 auto, but it doesn't seem like that box will bolt to the newer A343 auto...

thx!

Phil
 
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Mileage.... Well, first tank since all the mods done... Only averaged 14mpg, although I'm still driving like a kid and enjoying the linear power too much-- plus we're on crummy winter diesel... I'd imagine I'll see something closer to 18 when the new wears off and the summer months hit...

-Phil
 
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cjmoon came over and we spent some time on the little stuff...

1) added some OME rear springs that we picked up from Slee. The ride height is finally well sorted

2) Added the standard TC lock switch

3) and the best thing was added an iphone interface to the stock head unit. I'm not a big audiophile and I really don't appreciate the look of an aftermarket radio. I do want an audio/charger via the single iphone lightning connection though... We pulled the console and intercepted the CD changer signal wires and tapped in an iphone charger and interface for the modern lightning connector. I searched a good bit for a way to do this and didn't come up with anything, so we forged on sorted it out... The net of it is as that when I hit CD on the stock head unit, it's actually getting signal from the iphone. I ran the single lightning cable into the console. Now with the added defender 90 cup holders and the iphone interface, I've got the creature comforts of a modern truck without the BS modern truck :)

Tomorrow, I have to pick up one of the race cars from paint. Figure I'll use the 80 rather than the truck for the first time. Sure hope the 'ol 80 can pull the trailer! ;)

-Phil
 
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