More SOA Q's before I start my build over christmas break

[Randy88FJ62]

Need input on ordering parts list

Ford: Shock Towers (P/N provided by Dirtgypsy and also in other threads.)

Marlin Crawler: 80 Series Pittman Arm, Beefed Up Tie Rods & ends, Knuckle Gussets / Lower Shock Mounts, and front diff weld on armor since the housing is empty.

Marks’ Offroad: Front Axle Rebuild Kit

4x4 Doctor: 4.88 Gears

Ruffstuff Specialties: Spring Perches, Anti-Wrap Bar Kit

What’s the best place to get new spring bushings? How much are the greasable pins and anti-inversion shackles? My parts rig came with one set and I need to order another. Mud Vendor preferred.

What have people done about extending their sway bar mounts? Is there a kit available or is it mostly custom since all SOA are different? I don’t want to ditch my sway bars as I like to drive my rig around and also I drive long distances to the trails.

Dirtgypsy,
I noticed you ordered your U-bolts from Ruff Stuff. Any reason or just easier to get while buying the spring perches?

Brake Lines: Where’s the best place to order new ones? Do most people usually keep their stock hard line that runs the length of the front and rear axle?

I know some will scoff at me for this one (especially NLXTACY) but where is the best place to buy the rear ARB diff cover? It looks beefy and I hate to admit it, but I like the bling factor. Do any mud vendors sell them? I rather support mud peeps than a random online shopping cart.

Any purchased parts essentials that I’ve missed? Looking to buy all this stuff on Monday and drop off diffs for gearing next week. I’m pushing the SOA into it’s next stage.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Ford: Shock Towers (P/N provided by Dirtgypsy and also in other threads.)

Marlin Crawler: 80 Series Pittman Arm, Beefed Up Tie Rods & ends, Knuckle Gussets / Lower Shock Mounts, and front diff weld on armor since the housing is empty.

Marks’ Offroad: Front Axle Rebuild Kit

4x4 Doctor: 4.88 Gears

Ruffstuff Specialties: Spring Perches, Anti-Wrap Bar Kit

What’s the best place to get new spring bushings? How much are the greasable pins and anti-inversion shackles? My parts rig came with one set and I need to order another. Mud Vendor preferred.

What have people done about extending their sway bar mounts? Is there a kit available or is it mostly custom since all SOA are different? I don’t want to ditch my sway bars as I like to drive my rig around and also I drive long distances to the trails.

Dirtgypsy,
I noticed you ordered your U-bolts from Ruff Stuff. Any reason or just easier to get while buying the spring perches?

Brake Lines: Where’s the best place to order new ones? Do most people usually keep their stock hard line that runs the length of the front and rear axle?

I know some will scoff at me for this one (especially NLXTACY) but where is the best place to buy the rear ARB diff cover? It looks beefy and I hate to admit it, but I like the bling factor. Do any mud vendors sell them? I rather support mud peeps than a random online shopping cart.

Any purchased parts essentials that I’ve missed? Looking to buy all this stuff on Monday and drop off diffs for gearing next week. I’m pushing the SOA into it’s next stage.

Comments:

Are you sure Marlin is getting you an 80 Pittman? The one he sells has a lot more drop. It will work, though.

Marlin's weld on diff armor is for Minitrucks ie 8 inch diff, just be aware.


RuffStuffs U-bolts are uber high quality USA custom Made U-bolts. there are none better, and few as good. use them.

MAF has a great selection of poly bushings. Honestly, use the stock shackles for now, they will be fine. For SOA you want the shortest shackle that will work. That's the stock ones. They are very god quality with a very thick and strong pin. Worry about new shackles later.

Brake lines are kind of tricky. The original ones can be made to work. The problem is, that they will run under the springs where they are not protected. In the front, the t-junction is located poorly for SOA. I would cut it off and relocate about 4-5 inches toward the middle near the top of the diff bump on the axle housing. Then make custom lines that run over the springs. You also need a plan for the flex lines and there are a bunch of options there as well.

Making brake lines is pretty easy once you get the hang of using the double flare tool. You can make an axle worth of lines in about an hour or two, but do this after it's all back together. If this pic works, it gives an idea of the relocated brake "T" and the lines over the springs, not under. They are much less likely to get crushed by rocks.

 

[Dirtgypsy]

Ford: Shock Towers (P/N provided by Dirtgypsy and also in other threads.)

Marlin Crawler: 80 Series Pittman Arm, Beefed Up Tie Rods & ends, Knuckle Gussets / Lower Shock Mounts, and front diff weld on armor since the housing is empty.

Marks’ Offroad: Front Axle Rebuild Kit

4x4 Doctor: 4.88 Gears

Ruffstuff Specialties: Spring Perches, Anti-Wrap Bar Kit

What’s the best place to get new spring bushings? How much are the greasable pins and anti-inversion shackles? My parts rig came with one set and I need to order another. Mud Vendor preferred.

What have people done about extending their sway bar mounts? Is there a kit available or is it mostly custom since all SOA are different? I don’t want to ditch my sway bars as I like to drive my rig around and also I drive long distances to the trails.

Dirtgypsy,
I noticed you ordered your U-bolts from Ruff Stuff. Any reason or just easier to get while buying the spring perches?

Brake Lines: Where’s the best place to order new ones? Do most people usually keep their stock hard line that runs the length of the front and rear axle?

I know some will scoff at me for this one (especially NLXTACY) but where is the best place to buy the rear ARB diff cover? It looks beefy and I hate to admit it, but I like the bling factor. Do any mud vendors sell them? I rather support mud peeps than a random online shopping cart.

Any purchased parts essentials that I’ve missed? Looking to buy all this stuff on Monday and drop off diffs for gearing next week. I’m pushing the SOA into it’s next stage.

Where you buy your stuff is up to you. I planned my parts puchase on a couple of things. First was customer service, second was what I was actually buying, and third was price.

This round I did buy most or all of my rebuild stuff from Kurt at Cruiseroutfitters, a few items from MAF, Marlin, Longfield, and lastly Spectre.

I found that talking directly to these venders on the phone relieves some headache plus they usually will give a discount mentioning mud.


1. Search brakelines in Chicago's thread the #'s are there. Yes keep your hardlines on the axles just replace the stubby at the knuckle with one line and get rid of the backing plate. Or I like this option: Buy a SS kit from MAF ($100) then buy adapters noted in Kavik's thread to eliminate backing plate.

2. Bushings spring pins Kurt will have those. Abolut $150 or so for the whole truck.

3. Antiinversion shackles from 4 plus (I will pm info on this)

4. Extended sway bar links I would hold off on till the axle is mounted. Easy to buy heavy all thread and extend/ rebuild your stock ones.

5. The u-bolts fron Ruff stuff was for two reasons: First they offer the u-bolts and plates as a "kit" with perches and shock mounts. Secondly they are made in USA heavy duty. They dwarf the stock stuff.

Also pick up thier rear lower axle adjustable shock mounts. Very nice stuff.

Can't help on the ARB rear cover I have not looked into it as I have a FF rear

Clint

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Won’t more droop be bad as it would cause the steering to come close to the springs? I didn’t know it wasn’t an 80 series arm. How much for your spare Drew?

Didn’t know the armor was for mini trucks but it makes sense since MC’s business is mostly pickups. The other question arises, do I need differential armor in front? Who has had a problem ruining gears due to smashing the front diff cover?

New brake lines ran above sounds like the only way to go for safety. Eliminating the backing plate also sounds like a no brainer.

Just another thought: Has anyone scrapped the leaf spring mounts altogether and drilled two holes through the frame? I know some have done this on one side for a shackle reversal but what about doing for both to keep the SOA low. I agree with you Cruiserdrew and I’ll probably stick with stock shackles to keep the SOA low.

Any other good mods to keep the SOA low? That is a priority for me. Pucker factor has already gotten to me on 31’s with stock springs so I can imagine it will only get worse with bigger tires and a higher truck. Rolling is not on my list for a few more years since I don’t want to chop the truck up yet.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Won’t more droop be bad as it would cause the steering to come close to the springs? I didn’t know it wasn’t an 80 series arm. How much for your spare Drew?

Didn’t know the armor was for mini trucks but it makes sense since MC’s business is mostly pickups. The other question arises, do I need differential armor in front? Who has had a problem ruining gears due to smashing the front diff cover?

New brake lines ran above sounds like the only way to go for safety. Eliminating the backing plate also sounds like a no brainer.

Just another thought: Has anyone scrapped the leaf spring mounts altogether and drilled two holes through the frame? I know some have done this on one side for a shackle reversal but what about doing for both to keep the SOA low. I agree with you Cruiserdrew and I’ll probably stick with stock shackles to keep the SOA low.

Any other good mods to keep the SOA low? That is a priority for me. Pucker factor has already gotten to me on 31’s with stock springs so I can imagine it will only get worse with bigger tires and a higher truck. Rolling is not on my list for a few more years since I don’t want to chop the truck up yet.

If you use my spare 80 Pittman, it will need to be re-bored for the taper of the 80 tie rod end. It is correctly bored for 80 series drag link ends.(Tie rod ends and drag link ends have a different taper) I don't know if it would need to be bigger or smaller. I used GM 1 ton which were bigger and so it needed to be bored bigger. Ask Luke Porter at 4x4 Labs and he'll know if that modification is possible for 80 TREs.

I have differential armor on the front of my FJ40. You can use 1/2 of a 10 inch weldable pipe cap. Super beefy, strong, cheap. Do a search as Pat Kennedy used to sell the 1/2 pipe caps and did a nice job with them. You could cut your own with a plasma cutter. Diff armor in the front is good to have. The axle housing is just over 1/8 thick, so not really enough to protect the goodies in big rocks. There is a funny story involving FirstToy (FJC section moderator) and testing out the diff armor on the front of my FJ40 that I will tell you at next year's SnT.

Lot's of people have frenched the shackle hangers into the frame. Almost always with a shackle reversal. Keep your job simple and use the existing hangers.

Stock springs and shackles and perches that are as close to the axle as possible are about all you can do to keep it low. If stock springs and 31s are giving you pause, you are in for a major surprise with SOA and 35s!

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I did a search and I can't find anything on Pat Kennedy or the pipe. Do you have links? It sounds like a fun project I can tackle. If I buy the pittman arm from MC will it have too much droop and cause problems scraping the springs?

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Looking to complete my parts list before I order from Marlin. I have a set of hi-lift arms but don’t have the tie rods or tie rod ends. Who has ordered their beefier rods and what have 60’s done about the pittman arm? I have been told that the 80 series pittman arm is best and that Marlin’s may have too much droop. Can someone clarify this? I rather take a day to go to a junk yard and pull a pittman arm or find a source for one rather than but Marlin’s that may cause the steering to rub on the top of the spring packs.

What about the ends. I don’t want some pos Chinese ones. I want high quality or stock OEM. Where is best to source these ends?

What about taper issue with the 80 series pittman arm? Is that something my machine shop can fix easily or is it rather involved to fix the taper? Who has gone with 80 series or 1 ton ends and why? How hard was the conversion to deal with the different taper?

Anyone have any good pictures of the different tapers on the ends? I have seen the difference in the pittman arms in one SOA thread so I can visualize that. All these questions are pretty much me learning the steering system since I have not worked on it much other than taking it apart with a pickle fork so far. Any clarification would be much appreciated.

How about the tie rod lengths? Is this something I cut and do myself once they send it to me or do I need to specify some length so they can do it? Need to start getting into the nitty gritty details of my SOA as it comes together. Goal is to have it done by the end of June.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I've been up all night so not thinking too clearly, but I know your solution for the Pittman arm issue.

The basic 3 problems are:

1-You already own a particular high steer that requires 80 tie rod ends
2-The best Pittman arm is the 80 stock Pittman that has the wrong taper
3-I think the 80 TRE has too small of a taper to make re-cutting the Pittman taper practical


So the solution is totally custom and trick--

Use a GM 1 ton at the Pittman end. That end is totally sealed, has a zerk and is seriously heavy duty. It could be right or left thread. For sure, the 80 Pittman can be cut to this taper.

Use an 80 TRE at the knuckle end, with the opposite thread, either right or left.

The only difference is the thread cut in the drag link tube. Then go ahead and use the 80 pittman and have it bored for the GM 1-ton taper.

That nets you the best of all 3 worlds, and makes maximum use of what you already have.

I believe that only Luke Porter at 4x4 Labs could do this for you, but check around. I'll even take the Pittman up to Luke and have him cut it if you go that route.

For the lengths of the linkage, you'd have to ask Luke or Marlin.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Does Luke have the ability to do it all including the custom length tie rods? It would be nice to get it all from one place. I'll have to make some more calls. Thanks for the info. I might take you up on that offer if I can't source one here.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Does Luke have the ability to do it all including the custom length tie rods? It would be nice to get it all from one place. I'll have to make some more calls. Thanks for the info. I might take you up on that offer if I can't source one here.

Yes-Luke can do all of this, and has the tooling currently.

He makes the rods one at a time on his lathe, so of course he could do this. I went up there one morning and he did this all in real time for me.

There would be some utility in getting the SOA done, then measure the eye to eye length, and then order your drag link (or relay rod in Toyota speak). The first time around, my drag link came out about 1/2 inch too long, and so Luke cut me another. I had it the next day. Really good customer service. The point is, there will be slight variations in length depending on your set-up, and the fact that yours will be custom, due to the slight differences in the ends. Definitely safest to get it basically done, and measure the total length of the rod plus ends.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Thanks. I will talk with Luke and I will probably take you up on sending the 80 series arm over. Seems to be the simplest way to accomplish the correct steering geometry without too much hassle or headaches for me.

 

[NLXTACY]

I know some will scoff at me for this one (especially NLXTACY) but where is the best place to buy the rear ARB diff cover? It looks beefy and I hate to admit it, but I like the bling factor. Do any mud vendors sell them? I rather support mud peeps than a random online shopping cart.

Dude!! I just read this.

Are you driving a freaking Jeep or a Cruiser dammit?!

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Dude!! I just read this.

Are you driving a freaking Jeep or a Cruiser dammit?!

Diffs are officially out for regearing (4.88's for the 35's/) And NLXTACY, my LC will be going crazier places than I assume you'll take yours. Actions speak louder than words. I took my stock 62 into places you won't even take your OME lifted 33's....

So if I want to put a bright red ARB diff cover on and add some bling I will without you bitchin. Talk is cheap, join me this year when we go into Swamp Lake...

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Drew,
Luke got back to me on the steering. Here's what he said:
Randall,
A couple things,
First, the All Pro arms will not have correct ackerman geometry no
matter what you do to them. They will work okay on the 62 axle though
you will not be able to use the 1 ton drag link end on the passenger
side steering arm due to clearance issues. There are two holes on that
side, one for the drag link end and one for the tie rod end. The GM end
is physically larger and will interfere with the other. The holes are
too close together as they were designed for the smaller head of the
FJ80 TRE's.
The solution would be to use a hybrid drag link with a GM end at the
pitman arm and FJ80 end at the passenger side steering arm.

So, what I will need from you is-
1. Eye to eye measurement between the pitman arm hole and pass side
steering arm hole for the drag link (forward hole) basically the length
you will need for the drag link.
2. Same for the tie rod, eye to eye from side to side.
3. The FJ80 pitman arm for tapering.

Tie rod assemblies are $125 each and the tapering I'll do at no charge.

Just let me know when you are ready to go. I have parts in stock.

thanks,
-luke@4x4labs


Can I measure my stock steering? I assume I cannot and I need to wait until I setup the spare axle housing on the new perches / springs...

Can someone explain why different cruisers have different measurements?

Drew, you were dead on about the hybrid steering Fj80 / 1 ton end combo. I think I will be using your FJ80 pittman arm if you're still offering it.

 

[Dirtgypsy]

Can I measure my stock steering? I assume I cannot and I need to wait until I setup the spare axle housing on the new perches / springs...

Can someone explain why different cruisers have different measurements?

Drew, you were dead on about the hybrid steering Fj80 / 1 ton end combo. I think I will be using your FJ80 pittman arm if you're still offering it.[/quote]


I don't think it is because your cruiser may have a different measurment than say mine. What he needs from you is exactly what you have because you are boldy going where no one has gone before (insert star trek theme here). The overall side to side and center to center is needed because GM FZJ80 and FJ60 ends are all different in length. Not to mention I am sure he does not have a set of All Pro arms and a 60 series sitting in his shop to re-engineer someone elses design.

Wait till you have it together and I bet his turn around time will be pretty quick.

brakes and steering are THE 2 things to never mess with or try to do cheaply.

BTW very cool pics of the 62. Where is that? Also where is swamp lake?

clint

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Drew,
Luke got back to me on the steering. Here's what he said:
Randall,
A couple things,
First, the All Pro arms will not have correct ackerman geometry no
matter what you do to them. They will work okay on the 62 axle though
you will not be able to use the 1 ton drag link end on the passenger
side steering arm due to clearance issues. There are two holes on that
side, one for the drag link end and one for the tie rod end. The GM end
is physically larger and will interfere with the other. The holes are
too close together as they were designed for the smaller head of the
FJ80 TRE's.
The solution would be to use a hybrid drag link with a GM end at the
pitman arm and FJ80 end at the passenger side steering arm.

So, what I will need from you is-
1. Eye to eye measurement between the pitman arm hole and pass side
steering arm hole for the drag link (forward hole) basically the length
you will need for the drag link.
2. Same for the tie rod, eye to eye from side to side.
3. The FJ80 pitman arm for tapering.

Tie rod assemblies are $125 each and the tapering I'll do at no charge.

Just let me know when you are ready to go. I have parts in stock.

thanks,
-luke@4x4labs


Can I measure my stock steering? I assume I cannot and I need to wait until I setup the spare axle housing on the new perches / springs...

Can someone explain why different cruisers have different measurements?

Drew, you were dead on about the hybrid steering Fj80 / 1 ton end combo. I think I will be using your FJ80 pittman arm if you're still offering it.

Cool-80 Pittman is available when you are ready to go. (How about a trade for the fuel tank we talked about)

The reason is that no two swaps are exactly the same, especially with hybrid stuff with different than usual physical measurements. So, for moving your truckaround during the build, use the stock stuff loosly in the holes, then set it straight and take the measurments. Sadly, your lengths will change too much to measure your stock steering.

I can send down a 60 Pittman with the GM taper cut in it if it will help you get things going.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

Cool-80 Pittman is available when you are ready to go. (How about a trade for the fuel tank we talked about)

The reason is that no two swaps are exactly the same, especially with hybrid stuff with different than usual physical measurements. So, for moving your truckaround during the build, use the stock stuff loosly in the holes, then set it straight and take the measurments. Sadly, your lengths will change too much to measure your stock steering.

I can send down a 60 Pittman with the GM taper cut in it if it will help you get things going.

We are pushing my limits of understanding. Drew, can you pm me your ph number. I might as well get all the answers quick and over the phone instead of posting a million posts on here.

Dirtgypsy, The pictures are in the eastern sierras west of Fresno and Bakersfield. Ever heard of Marlin Crawler? Those pics are the home turf of some of the best aftermarket toyota products offered to the U.S. The pcis themselves are of a trail called coyote / red lake. Swamp lake is harder and on my to do list once I get the SOA done. I maxed out my stock ability on that lake trail. People were staring at me thinking I was crazy. I didn't see another stock vehicle during the whole weekend trip. Only a stock Toyota could get back there...

 

[Randy88FJ62]

UPDATE:
Luke 4x4 Labs six stud knuckles, arms, and steering kit ordered. I'll be selling the all-pro hy-steer arms to the first person who has a reasonable offer.

I also ordered ruff stuff perches and the marlin crawler axle gussets / front shock mounts.

Now I need to start reading all the mud SOA pages to find the P/N's for the banjo brake fittings.

Gonna go with stock 60 springs and stock shackles to start with.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

PM sent.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

UPDATE:
Luke 4x4 Labs six stud knuckles, arms, and steering kit ordered. I'll be selling the all-pro hy-steer arms to the first person who has a reasonable offer.

I also ordered ruff stuff perches and the marlin crawler axle gussets / front shock mounts.

Now I need to start reading all the mud SOA pages to find the P/N's for the banjo brake fittings.

Gonna go with stock 60 springs and stock shackles to start with.

Now you are talking some sense.

Got your PM about the Pittman-No problem, but it's going to be 2 weeks.

What banjo fittings are you referring to?