elkaholic
Left turn ...freakin wipers!
I agree with this thought. The loads on recovery points can be pretty incredible. I'd go for a solid steel point first that was welded and possibly bolted as well.
Moonshine goes under the knife................again
- Thread starter GLTHFJ60
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- Thread starter
- #62
The last bumper I had had two solid steel recovery points that were on the leading edge of the bumper, which were held in by 4 1/2" grade 8 bolts each. Over time they got beat in enough that I couldn't fit my big d-rings anymore, only smaller ones that were a loose fit at best. These recovery points were held on with two bolts each and were apparently sufficient to pull the CUCV out of whatever hole it was in. On top of that, they fit my d-rings.
Are we concerned about the strength of the recovery points themselves or the way I'm going to weld them in?
Are we concerned about the strength of the recovery points themselves or the way I'm going to weld them in?
Seeing as i know what those vehicles went thru in there military life and you are going to bypass that by far is my reasoning. That and trying to open up a hole big enough in your bumper will be a pain / weak point to me. I still say design your bumper first while you are doing this so you only do it once. Do i over build my stuff yes, but it holds up which is all i want / need.
- Thread starter
- #65
Very few people I've seen use bolt-on recovery points with fabricated bumpers. Most custom builds have recovery points welded to the bumper/frame, they just make them out of 3/4" or 1" thick steel so it never has to be replaced 
No one likes my recovery point idea, so out the window they go. On to building the crossmember.
No one likes my recovery point idea, so out the window they go. On to building the crossmember.
I have, IIRC, 5/8" thick tow points integrated into my front bumper. In all honesty, they've been glorified D-Ring holders because anytime I'm pulling from the front, its with a winch cable. I say do them how you want or feel they'll hold up the best, but don't kill yourself because I doubt they'll see much service over the winch.
R
R
I find the front recovery points on the front valuable for using a snatch block in the event this "lightweight" vehicle were ever in a position that the load exceeded the winch capacity or needed to be pulled in a different direction than the winch fairlead allowed. And, 4x4 Lab rear bumpers do have them welded to the bumper and portion of the bumper that replaces the rear cross-member.
Now, I can't imagine you will ever get Moonshine is such a position
yet, others might and you'd be the savior in their recovery...
Now, I can't imagine you will ever get Moonshine is such a position
yet, others might and you'd be the savior in their recovery...
You are over building the rest of this truck, i would continue that way and overbuild the front bumper / winch protection also. In the end you will be happier. And those pieces you were going to use were just for tieing it down with, not for anything heavy duty. Just saying from experience.
- Thread starter
- #69
Agreed on all points! I'll eventually have a 3/8" plate on top of the frame for a which mount that will tie it all together. I'll figure out recovery points at that time.
Still not sure what I'm going to do for the rest of the bumper, but it'll come to me.
Still not sure what I'm going to do for the rest of the bumper, but it'll come to me.
elkaholic
Left turn ...freakin wipers!
Johnny ... everyone else beat me to it, so I'll just say ditto. The only add I have is that I have been affiliated in the past with a professionally run off road organization that would not recognize tie down points or recovery points that were only welded to the frame as adequate recovery points for rides that required front and rear recovery points ... and I personally have had to tell folks they could not go on the rides I lead because of this.
Make something beefy as h--l like the rest of Moonshine, then forget about it
Make something beefy as h--l like the rest of Moonshine, then forget about it
NCFJ
Supporting Vendor
I'll chime in. First off, welding any bumper to the frame ends up being an issue later down the line if and when you wish to remove it. If there is any room behind your front spring perches you can weld nuts to the frame and use 4, 1/2" grade 8 bolts on both sides and even use the holes in the upper and lower section of the frame as well. I use 1/4" plate to fab up the frame mounts which also protrude forward to form the recovery points. I thin build them up to 3/4" from there.
Whether using tube or plate, weld the rest of the bumper to those attachment points. Use either 3/16" or 1/4" to make the winch plate, I set it on the lower section of the C so the winch sits down in between the frame rails. This way the winch plate ties into the side vertical mounts that go out and form the recovery points. This way you basically slide in what is a large bottomed U into the frame rails and bolt it all in. Strong as hell and puts all loads put on the recovery point straight into the frame rail.
Whether using tube or plate, weld the rest of the bumper to those attachment points. Use either 3/16" or 1/4" to make the winch plate, I set it on the lower section of the C so the winch sits down in between the frame rails. This way the winch plate ties into the side vertical mounts that go out and form the recovery points. This way you basically slide in what is a large bottomed U into the frame rails and bolt it all in. Strong as hell and puts all loads put on the recovery point straight into the frame rail.
elkaholic
Left turn ...freakin wipers!
That would have been acceptable to the organization I was referring to (integrated into a bolt on bumper ... even better if it was the mounting point for the bumper ) .... but taking that same recovery point and welding it to the frame would not have been.
Plus, I agree 100% with what Stan said above ... it starts reminding me of a few things I learned in ME classes wayyy to long ago ....
NCFJ
Supporting Vendor
I took a few ME classes myself 
also long ago
I might even start a bumper business................
also long agoI might even start a bumper business................
elkaholic
Left turn ...freakin wipers!
What ... you're gonna start a bumper business Stan !!!????!!!! 
You know doing that with the FJC crowd is 
<snide / sarcasm mode off>
Sorry for the hijack Johnny ....
You know doing that with the FJC crowd is <snide / sarcasm mode off>
Sorry for the hijack Johnny ....
Build your bumper, buy a couple of these:
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Through-Bumper-Clevis-Mount_p_1784.html
Slice the bumper where it fits well, and weld front and back. Done.
R
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Through-Bumper-Clevis-Mount_p_1784.html
Slice the bumper where it fits well, and weld front and back. Done.
R
- Thread starter
- #77
@elkaholic , so a recovery point that was welded to the bumper, then bolted to the frame, was OK (two failure points) but a recovery point that was welded straight to the frame (one failure point) was not OK? Did you also have regulations for what size bolts, and/or how many or the grade of bolt, should be used to bolt the bumper to the frame?
I'm all for building a bumper that bolts onto the frame. I just need to figure out how to make it work with this new front crossmember.
I'm all for building a bumper that bolts onto the frame. I just need to figure out how to make it work with this new front crossmember.
- Thread starter
- #78
Today's progress:
- Thread starter
- #79
Everything is finish welded and painted. U-bolts, TREs, shackles and spring pins are now torqued. Just need to get some brake lines and I'm rolling again!
Yes, I need to fix the headlight door.
Tied the body and radiator core support mounts into the outboard plates:
Looks pretty damn good if you ask me.
Yes, I need to fix the headlight door.
Tied the body and radiator core support mounts into the outboard plates:
Looks pretty damn good if you ask me.
