Mods: Can “more” ever be less-is-more too? (1 Viewer)

[Markuson]

If you have any spare brain cells today, I’m curious how y’all look at things in one specific area.

-We talk mostly about mods on this forum, and we all have opinions and preferences. Some spartan...some plush.
Some minimalist (is that truly an option in a 200?)...and some max out a truck only to sell and start all over.

200 series mods are —in my head—a little different than other LCs in one way: We start with more built in doodads no matter what. So whether we mega-mod, or pretend we are “old school” in a $85,000 truck (haha)...we start with more than most...

OK.
So about mods and doodads (doodads being comforts or convenience not entirely necessary for wheeling).

I am guilty.

I keep a lot of stuff in my truck.

Not just stuff I always NEED, but some stuff I simply enjoy...or things that make long trail days more enjoyable/tolerable for passengers who don’t get to enjoy the thrill of DRIVING.

Let’s face it. We drivers get the best role of all behind the wheel! Pilot or Passenger? That’s an easy choice for most of us.

But back to the Q... what is too much?

For me, it’s all about personal alternatives and even bigger steps I’m hoping I don’t have to rely on.

For ME...that means two main goals:
-To avoid towing if possible...
-To come as close to what trailer folks exclusively enjoy...but without actually having to pull one.

Trailers offer real beds...cooking convenience...coffee convenience... personal hygiene convenience and poopers. Real poopers.

For me, what can seem like “more” to some...can also be considered “less-is-more”...because it lets me enjoy similar benefits to the trailer...but with the freedom you can only have *without* one. Absolute freedom is also cool...and I backpacked for years in total boonies. Less can definitely be more when backpacking for two weeks at a time without seeing another human (done than numerous times).

But I’m 50 now, and feel 70 as I still try to recover from accidents and ailments.

Many of my more recent mods have been attempting to refine my personal conveniences so that it’s as efficient in its “more-ness” as possible. Sort of a “lessification of more.”

And since I don’t have $200k sitting around to put into a fully built “mini Earth Roamer” LC...I have a ball fiddling with hints of it.

More is less when it’s a mess (Baja over-packing). I’m shooting for smart more.

So...

What’s YOUR take as you read through this 200 Series techie, moddie hang-out forum of ours?

What drives YOU?
-Not the idealized you... (Steve McQueen, Marlin Brando, Humphrey Bogart...wrapped into one), but the actual LC guy you?

Bottom line for me:
“Too Much” will be when I stop attempting obstacles or trickier trails because of my stuff.

So far, that hasn’t happened, and I’m a pretty aggressive driver.
But if it ever does happen...it will be my own, personal “red flag.”

What’s Yours?

Mark

 

[TonyP]

Somewhere between eating cold beans out of a can or sleeping on plywood and strapping a Weber Genesis and a California King to the back of your rig.

Only the individual can drawn the line. If you want a microwave, bring it. If you want to eat cold noodles because it makes you feel more manly, go for it. Playful ribbing is warranted either way. But looking across the campfire as someone eats a stone baked pizza with fresh toppings as you try to get down your Mountain House powdered eggs is a humbling experience.

Though I agree. When all the s*** you're carrying starts to compromise where you can go, it becomes an issue. Which is why trailers (Patriot style) will never appeal to me. I'd rather build a rig that'll suit a variety of needs, which is why I moved to the off-road breadvan. Plus, I want to drive the globe when I retire in a couple years and the 75 seemed the perfect choice.

 

[Markuson]

PS about trailers.
I’m Not knocking trailers.
Someday I’d like to have one...but just for day-trail formats like Cruise Moab or LCDC type stuff...or maybe just relaxing at a stationary camp spot for a weekend of fishing, kayaking, etc. with my dog.

Just don’t want to overland with one.

 

[Nomad_K]

After helping with a few upgrades on an LC I am back to looking at a 200, hence lurking here, but my perspective comes from wheeling other rigs (more rock crawling overnighters than expeditions to be honest) and hiking.

I’m have to admit that my hang up with the 200 is how to build it. My practical LC loving side says a minimal lift, a hidden winch, sliders, skids, basic tools, and quality gear I would use to hike would be great. I could daily drive it, take it out for an overnight, or do longer trips as long as I have fuel and water storage sorted. The first time a friend brought a Webber grill on a wheeling trip I thought ‘that’s too much, we might as well just hang out at home and grill.’

But them something happened. My friend made the best chicken I had all year and on our next trip out I actually put more than 10 minutes into prepping meals. Yes, we wheeled a bit less. But our families had a better time, we ate better, and I still had a blast.

Now, back to my 200 series dilemma and the question at hand. For me, too much would be when the wheeler in the back of my head takes over what should be a sensible build. My inner Tom Wayes, who has always always had lockers front and rear and larger tires than I ever needed on any trail I was on, can’t imagine e a 200 without long travel, ARB’s, and some body work to make 37’s fit with a minimal lift. At that stage though wouldn’t I be better off with a buggy? So, when I think of too much, I try to keep the drivetrain and suspension plan reasonable.

Maybe because my trips have been shorter, I have never yearned for an overbuilt overlanding kit that I could live out of for weeks on end. But, that first trip with a grill and my friend’s home made teriyaki chicken did get me to rethink what is too much. So maybe...

 

[TonyP]

The mertit of trailer owners is they can setup camp and go explore. I don't know how I'd feel about leaving a $35k Patriot X1 on a Mexican beach for the day. OK, I do know how I would feel, not good.

Not my thing but I see the appeal.

As for eats. A decent meal at the campsite exponentially improves the entire experience. Cheating or not, it's worth it to bring some cooking gear and good ingredients.

Just my opinions, but what do I know?

Edit: All that said, vehicle weight is always at a looming concern in my mind. It impacts so much.

 

[tbisaacs]

I bought my 570 because I wanted a (mostly) uncompromised daily driver that I could drag across Moab or someday to an LCDC event. Now that I have tires and Slee sliders, I’m probably there. Yet here I am staring at @Apounder’s 35s and @Ohnoitsbreaux ’s bumpers.

It’s really easy to justify “better safe than sorry” mindset with mods and armor, but the reality is I don’t wheel alone, and even when I go to Moab I’m not going to be dragging my Tupperware.

So for me, too much is when my mods get ahead of my nerve.

 

[M1911]

At this year’s LCDC, I was airing up near Ouray when a couple guys on off-road bikes stopped next to me. One of the guys asked me if my K02s were 285/65-18s, which took me by surprise. He told me that he had had a 200 series and went all out on his build —- 35s, 3” lift, bumpers, etc. But after doing all that, he ended up liking the truck less. He told me that he wished he’d kept his truck more like mine, which has just slightly bigger tires and rock sliders.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Funny you mentioned that. I drove my 200 (all the goodies) down to help my parents pack their house for an upcoming move. Then I drove their stock 200 around, pulling a 20’ trailer around town. Makes you reliable how capable a stock 200 is, and how there is kinda limited added capability modifiying one gets you.

But... that’s not what we’re talking about, we’re talking about comfort.

I’ve had the fortunate experience to have started wheeling when I was a young kid, and having very little money. That teaches you more of what can be done with little, versus if someone gets into wheeling latter in life, and have significantly more money to spend.

But for me, when I think comfort, I think standing, eating, and showing in a heated room (and no canvas walls). Which the 200 will never offer. So I’m really okay with a small ground tent, a good Exped MegaMat Lite, and some water.

My family (all of us off road and travel, wife, parents, brother) talk about this all the time, and having gone from nothing at all, to heated RTTs and showers, I’ve found, by far, the most enjoyable trips I’ve had where when I had nothing at all. A small duffle bag of clothes, sleeping bag and pad (no tent), 5 gallon water can, tiny cooler of food, and a backpacking stove.

Take the thousands of dollars left over and have more time off and fuel to go see more places in this world. You can’t buy wheeling experiences online.

But I get it Mark, I’m a tinker too, which is why I bring more stuff now. Which isn’t a bad thing, if anything, at the end you’ll be able to know more what really makes you happy.

Hell, if I can do this LCXC 2019, I might have the Kimberley Kamper behind me. Do I need it for just me? Absolutely not. But why not?

 

[bjorn240]

I have a '15 LX, with Rock Warriors and 285/70R17 KO2 and an LC rack with four cross bars. I am going to add sliders and maybe after market underbody protection. Then call it good. If I want to go see wild nature, my family is more than willing to backpack and kayak camp anywhere from the lower 48 to Lappland to the Brooks Range, so the LX really gets used for fishing/hunting/local camping/skiing. I will take it to Colorado or Utah a couple times I am sure, but building it out as a faux-expedition vehicle would compromise its daily utility to me. Our expedition vehicles are a couple of folding tandem kayaks with some Hilleberg tents in them!

 

[Union]

This is a great thread! As someone who has just started building their LC, I really appreciate the different perspectives being offered and how it all applies to my build. I'm someone who loves to backpack and has everything I'll ever need for that type of adventure. So for me, my rig will definitely reflect my minimalist nature. That doesn't mean I can't bring along an old school Coleman stove and cook some great food! My rig is also my DD so I have to think about that and like @tbisaacs said, too much for me is when my mods get ahead of my nerve. Additionally, I still would like to use all three rows of seats ruling out drawers. I've had long travel vehicles in the past but they weren't 80 grand either. If I ever got the itch to let it rip over some whoops and whip through dunes, I'd grab a side by side. With all this being said, I'll probably end up grabbing a bumper and winch, tires, and a lift.

 

[Dan Higgins]

A timely thread, Mark, as I am wrestling with whether or not to add have Slee but an ARB bumper (with lights but w/o winch) on my 2016 over the next few weeks. I just PM'd a couple of members who recently sold their "significantly built" rigs for new 16+ models and have chosen to be more modest with these new ones. Though I am pretty happy with my 285/65R18E KO2s, very modest lift, Slee sliders, roof rack, drawers and compressor (which I use mostly for my travel trailer) I am considering a bumper primarily for large animal strike protection and enhanced lighting on back/forest roads at night. That said, adding a bumper is a big deal. Though we see a lot of deer and have had a couple of near misses, does that merit a full protection bumper? And as for lighting, is there an option that doesn't require making holes in the roof or doing crazy wiring that will still add sufficient value over the lighting on a 16+?

When it comes to camping, I'm with @Taco2Cruiser. I'm OK with my sleeping bag, mattress, backpacking stove and a Yeti cooler for the limited number of nights I camp. We have an OZ Tent for if we plan to stay more than a night. And I found the soft-side RTT to be more trouble than it is worth. So I guess for camping I all on the side of minimalism.

I'm not a "wheeler" like some. I'll likely end up on some rough roads with a bit of careful rock crawling but we don't care for hours of shaking and mini-whiplash. Nor do I care to risk "body damage". So I don't need the big tires or a taller lift (though a bit more approach angle never hurts.) The clearance on my Land Rover LR4 in 'offroad mode" was 9.5" on the side and 11" down the middle. If I have essentially that with the LC then I am good to go. I would never knowingly get onto a trail that required winching.

Sooo. Do I need a winchless front bumper? I know that is a question only I can answer. But it is a very serious commitment. Lots of money and a significant change to the vehicle. This thread has me rethinking how far I want to go and whether I would be better trying to find a lighting option that doesn't require a bumper and just driving slower and more carefully to avoid hitting a deer.

 

[Sandroad]

I've thought a lot about this. The tinkerer in me has made probably close to a hundred mods on my camper-trailer. Not a single one was "needed", but it sure is fun! I'm taking the same approach to my LC, but I've left it pretty much stock for a year or so while I consider what's doable on a truck that's still in warranty and what/where I want to go next. I don't "wheel" in the common use of that term, but I enjoy playing in the dunes and traveling with the family to the backcountry where I really enjoy not having to worry about the vehicle. I'm into the mods for the fun, with the attitude that whatever floats your boat is fine (as long as it doesn't sink).

 

[Overland Tailor]

I've put new LC money into a 1997 Collectors Edition including a Slee 4.7 V8.... Basically there is a reason I don't ultralight hike, not knocking it, but I want to take thing to make the trip more enjoyable. I've got enough stress in my life, so when I travel I want to relax and have these "mods" or additions done to increase my experience.

My only other "want" was a CampTeq with a roof cut, but went ALu-Cab GENIII ... Glad I did that as it looks like I'm in the hunt for a 2016+ 200 and then this beautiful madness will start all over again.

Cheers Gents~

John

 

[TonyP]

Sometimes that chase (or build in this case) is more fun than the catch.

 

[Overland Tailor]

Sometimes that chase (or build in this case) is more fun than the catch.

Just like they say its the Journey not the Destination, I believe for me 100% its the build. Its truly my therapy...

I literally have the perfect rig, but its been finished now for about a year and I'm ready to start again.

 

[TeCKis300]

I think the operative word here is “balance”. Yet that word by nature is subjective and individualized.

I’m a tinkerer like many others here. My interests go far beyond vehicles, into every hobby, and even into my professional world. It’s literally my job to engineer the right balance of decisions on behalf of the customer, including cost, schedule, performance, capability, durability, maintainability, and every other “ility” one can think of.

The way I like to consider things is that nothing comes for free and everything has a cost. The literal cost. But also the cost to other parameters, metrics, or traits. The key is gaining the most value or capability, with minimal trade off to another metric.

In other words, ask yourself "what would I be compromising on with this mod?"

Performance to me is one of the most important metrics. I enjoy using tools that have great performance. I dislike trading performance for capability. It’s like having that one awesome power tool. And then trading it for that multi-tool that doesn’t do anything great. Secretly, we know that the 200-series is a swiss army knife that does so many things incredibly well. I want to keep it that way without making it too off-road oriented for example.

While I like the idea of armor, I will never do it. It's likely one of those mods that seem better in my mind than reality. Mainly because I don’t use my vehicle that way. But it has tremendous tradeoffs in many of the classic performance measures. Loss of acceleration, braking, handling, off-road performance, and even accident safety. I’m not worried about protecting the vehicle in animal strikes. That’s what insurance is for. It’s more important to me to protect the family in those extreme accidents where braking/handling may have made a difference, and if it came to it, the engineered crumple/crash structure can best do its job to minimize injury.

Again, that’s the balance I’m personally looking for. Which is not the same balance others may want.

 

[Ali M]

This is not exactly answering the question but I think all of us are pondering about how our use evolved over time with the 200.

This is definitely a journey for me since I bought it new. I realized with all the recent mods I have put on (lift, sliders and skids) am not interested in wheeling with it as much as I would like to or even backcountry driving. I feel that where I am now is perfect for the everyday chores, road trips and light camping with family. I may remove the mods and sell it if my wife wants to drive it long-term which is possible. For wheeling, overlanding or even backcountry driving I am leaning towards 2nd rig just to do that as I see it more of a specialized activity with the kids than what I am using the LC for today. The 200 is too big and wide and super comfy and spacious and that's why the family loves it. Everyone feels comfortable and safe when they ride it. I want something narrower with diesel power and with a pop-up camper and able to put on 37s on it without much tinkering and only the Jeep Rubicon so far fits that description. Will evaluate as I go and see where I land.

 

[Overland Tailor]

This is not exactly answering the question but I think all of us are pondering about how our use evolved over time with the 200.

This is definitely a journey for me since I bought it new. I realized with all the recent mods I have put on (lift, sliders and skids) am not interested in wheeling with it as much as I would like to or even backcountry driving. I feel that where I am now is perfect for the everyday chores, road trips and light camping with family. I may remove the mods and sell it if my wife wants to drive it long-term which is possible. For wheeling, overlanding or even backcountry driving I am leaning towards 2nd rig just to do that as I see it more of a specialized activity with the kids than what I am using the LC for today. The 200 is too big and wide and super comfy and spacious and that's why the family loves it. Everyone feels comfortable and safe when they ride it. I want something narrower with diesel power and with a pop-up camper and able to put on 37s on it without much tinkering and only the Jeep Rubicon so far fits that description. Will evaluate as I go and see where I land.

Or perhaps a fully built 80 series with a 4.7 V8 and keep it in the Toyota Family

 

[Markuson]

To @Taco2Cruiser ... Yep. Truth is...if you just dump my occasional microwave inclusion (I get ribbed a lot for it, ha!))...I camp basically the same way. I’m either in a small tent, or sleeping inside the truck when I’m alone or in bad weather. I use an exped mat, and my dog sleeps on her car foam thingy (or pushed up against me...she’s a pack dog, and likes to dog-pile ).

I cook breakfast on a stove because I’m addicted to eggs, cheese and avocados in the morning. But...sometimes it’s great to literally have NOTHING to prepare, assemble, clean or put away. That’s where the microwave can be helpful—especially when sleep time is more important than food prep time on those early/long trail days.

Tinkering—
The micro has been an interesting experiment for me. It started with simply pondering installation of a powerful inverter...whether it was even doable. If there is anything that pushes an inverter to the Max, it’s a micro—because the massive surge and tendency for voltage drop auto-shut-down due to long wire resistance.

All fun stuff, and I’m enjoying all of the different thoughts here.

 

[Sandroad]

Its truly my therapy.

That's the phrase I was looking for..........