Mod to convert fog lights to driving lights with high beams (2021 LC) (1 Viewer)

[gluaisrothai]

Deleted because of irrelevant and inaccurate snark.

 

[40Man]

Running this combination is illegal in most states, including CA.

 

[gluaisrothai]

Deleted.

 

[hankinid]

Given where you say you live, what will you use in real fog?

We lived in El Granada for 15 years before moving to TX and ID, Don't take this personally, but I judge bright oncoming fog lights as belonging to a real a**hole. Driving in fog with high beams cuts your visibility a bunch. I'd suggest something like PIAA 47 watt fog lights...around 3500K. Much better in fog than oem.

 

[gluaisrothai]

Deleted,

 

[gluaisrothai]

Deleted...

 

[Moby]

@TeCKis300 has a great thread on how to mod the fog light circuit for independent control

Running Fog Independent of Headlight

This is a riddle that's brought up from time to time - How to enable running the fog light without the headlight being on, with the factory fog light switch. Factory logic, allows fogs to function only when the headlight is on. I'd like to turn them on independently at times. I've made this...

forum.ih8mud.com

Given this, it is relatively easy to build logic to turn them on normally and automatically with the high beams (using the stock fog switch as an override - if fog switch on && high beam on, turn fog on with high; if fog off && high beam on don't turn on fog with high). I sketched out a circuit for this with three relays but ended up not needing it after I installed IP9s.

 

[40Man]

Disagree. There is a prohibition against more than 4 front lights showing; however dual headlamps (as equipped on the LC) are considered a single lamp under CA law. CVC 24405(b).

Modifying the lights as described allows them to operate as auxiliary lights ref CVC 24402(a).

However I am not a lawyer, so as with anything you read on the internet- it's at your own risk.

First off, using non SAE approved lights on the road has been held illegal in most jurisdictions, but I was referring to wiring driving lights (even if SAE approved) being wired to work with low beams. And based on the output of the squadron pros, I doubt you'll be able to get them to comply with the cutoff and distance compliance rules in CA with your high beams. And yes, there have been cases where the jurisdiction checked whether it was wired to allow driving lights turn on with low beams.

My guess is technically the Squadron Pros should be covered up on the road under CA law.

The Squadron SAE would likely be legal.

Call it snark if you wish but this is a tech forum, so it is good to give people guidance if they choose to mod certain ways so they know the risks...

 

[gluaisrothai]

Deleted.

 

[gluaisrothai]

Deleted.

 

[Sandroad]

The lights you’re planning to use are illegal for highway use in Michigan because they far exceed the legal lumen output. Personally, when I see someone using off-road lights on the highway, I think jerk. I have to admit that’s mostly because my older eyes are more affected by bright light than when I was younger, but I’ve never seen someone running off road lights dim them to low beams in time to not cause a problem. IMHO, you should reconsider this mod and not have those super bright lights come on automatically.

 

[gluaisrothai]

Deleted.

 

[40Man]

Easy to add to the mod- bend out the ground trigger leg of FR FOG. That will disable the factory stalk fog light control, so the formerly fog/now driving lights cannot be enabled on low beam.

Regarding whether or not SAE compliance is required for driving lights, the CA Superior Court decided in 1996 that it was not a requirement in CA vs. Russell. Russell was pulled over for not having covers on what the CHP claimed were offroad lights. Russell claimed they were driving lights per 24402(a).

From the appellate court ruling:
"The uncontradicted evidence in this case demonstrates that appellant's lights fall within the definition of "driving lights" in Vehicle Code § 24402. That section does not require driving lights to be covered. The administrative regulations pertaining 'to driving lights do not refer to any SAE requirements. While the authority to regulate driving lights is vested in the CHP, there is no evidence that CHP has promulgated such a regulation and if so, what that regulation is."

And that case specifically referenced that the driving lights did not work with the low beams as I recall, right? Pretty sure that was material to the defendant winning on appeal. That and as far as I can see the state tried to rely on SAE which neither the code or regulations point to. The state does have separate regulations regarding aiming, which without a cutoff, the Baja Pros won't be able to meet the requirement.

And I was referring to most jurisdictions, not just CA regarding SAE. Many states have codified SAE as a requirement. Keep that in mind for road trips.

CA Code section 24407:
"On a straight level road under any condition of loading none of the high intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver."

Those Baja's don't have a cutoff to prevent hitting other driver's eyes. Baja will even tell you those lights aren't street legal.

Not to mention, the NHTSA regulates candlepower of headlights, and I'm pretty sure these exceed the legal maximum. Federal law supersedes state law.

CA law also has separate regulations for driving fog and auxiliary lamps regarding aiming, etc.

Deleted because of irrelevant and inaccurate snark.

This is a tech forum. So if others want to do this, they should be aware of the risks. Am I saying you shouldn't do it? No. Just know the risks and pros/cons of not having street legal fog lights. If a cop sees you with those blinding bajas on driving on the street, count on a ticket.

The idea to mod brights to work with fogs is a good mod, and can be legal in many jurisdictions, and others here have already done so.

There was even a CA case with offroad driving lights on a dirt road in an off-road park. Guy got pulled over, was drunk, and it was all upheld as the lights were illegal and it was considered a road.

The case you referenced, and many others have in other forums, was decided only because the cop pushed SAE rather than arguing the lights were off-road lights (unclear what lights the defendant had and whether they met this requirement) that did not meet CA regulations for aiming. I tried Shepardizing the case you referenced but it wasn't in Lexis (likely unpublished). I wouldn't count on it to help you win a court case unless your lights meet the aiming, candlepower and other requirements of both state and federal law.

 

[luke27617]

As well I don't like that in US LC doesn't use the line strip in headlights as DRLs and instead uses the headlight at reduced power. II have installed those on my previous Land Cruiser and installing again as we speak on my new 21 HE. This is my earlier post during first install

2016-2020 LC New LED DRL (Daytime Running Lights) / Turn Signal Add on

Many US buyers are unhappy that the 16+ LC doesn't come with DRL module in headlight like outside US and uses the low beam as Daytime Running Lights. I am one of those unhappy people. Folks investigated if there is a way to change that but no positive outcomes came out of it. A little a...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[gluaisrothai]

And that case specifically referenced that the driving lights did not work with the low beams as I recall, right? Pretty sure that was material to the defendant winning on appeal. That and as far as I can see the state tried to rely on SAE which neither the code or regulations point to. The state does have separate regulations regarding aiming, which without a cutoff, the Baja Pros won't be able to meet the requirement.

And I was referring to most jurisdictions, not just CA regarding SAE. Many states have codified SAE as a requirement. Keep that in mind for road trips.

CA Code section 24407:
"On a straight level road under any condition of loading none of the high intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver."

Those Baja's don't have a cutoff to prevent hitting other driver's eyes. Baja will even tell you those lights aren't street legal.

You are selectively quoting elements of CVC24407 out of context. 24407 speaks separately to requirements of high and low beam elements of lighting. No cutoff is required for high beams.

In full, 24407 reads (bolded additions are mine):
Multiple-beam road lighting equipment (i.e. HIGH and LOW beams) shall be designed and aimed as follows:

(a) There shall be an uppermost distribution of light, or composite beam, so aimed and of such intensity as to reveal persons and vehicles at a distance of at least 350 feet ahead for all conditions of loading. (i.e. HIGH BEAMS)
(b) There shall be a lowermost distribution of light, or composite beam so aimed and of sufficient intensity to reveal a person or vehicle at a distance of at least 100 feet ahead.  On a straight level road under any condition of loading none of the high intensity portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver. (i.e. LOW BEAMS)

So as long as the Squadron Pros are off with low beams/on with high beams, they appear to be compliant with 24407 and the applicable driving light regs.

 

[gluaisrothai]

Not to mention, the NHTSA regulates candlepower of headlights, and I'm pretty sure these exceed the legal maximum. Federal law supersedes state law.

13434.ztv | NHTSA

Mr. Binh Nguyen Product Manager Customer Satisfaction AutoZone P.O. Box 2198 Memphis, TN 38101-9842 Dear Mr. Nguyen: This responds to your letter of December 16, 1996. You informed us that AutoZone "does sell auxiliary driving lights that are either SAE/DOT Approved or For Off Road Use Only."...

www.nhtsa.gov

Nope, they do not regulate auxiliary lights. Unless you can find a more recent opinion.

 

[gluaisrothai]

There was even a CA case with offroad driving lights on a dirt road in an off-road park. Guy got pulled over, was drunk, and it was all upheld as the lights were illegal and it was considered a road.

The case you referenced, and many others have in other forums, was decided only because the cop pushed SAE rather than arguing the lights were off-road lights (unclear what lights the defendant had and whether they met this requirement) that did not meet CA regulations for aiming. I tried Shepardizing the case you referenced but it wasn't in Lexis (likely unpublished). I wouldn't count on it to help you win a court case unless your lights meet the aiming, candlepower and other requirements of both state and federal law.

Drunk eh. I don't think the lights were the problem there.

No, aiming wasn't the question in Russell vs California. It was the cops claim that the lights were CVC24411 "offroad" lamps which should be covered on-road. The driver argued, and appellate court agreed, that the lamps were CVC24402(a) lamps not requiring a cover.

You might this link instructive.

Offroad Lights vs. Driving Lights - https://www.sidekickoffroad.com/offroad-lights-vs-driving-lights.html

 

[40Man]

13434.ztv | NHTSA

Mr. Binh Nguyen Product Manager Customer Satisfaction AutoZone P.O. Box 2198 Memphis, TN 38101-9842 Dear Mr. Nguyen: This responds to your letter of December 16, 1996. You informed us that AutoZone "does sell auxiliary driving lights that are either SAE/DOT Approved or For Off Road Use Only."...

www.nhtsa.gov

Nope, they do not regulate auxiliary lights. Unless you can find a more recent opinion.

The NHTSA has been regulating lighting and output for quite a white, including driving lights. Regulations were promulgated in 2005 that are far different than the opinion from 1996. And that opinion does not conflict, it says they don't regulate as long as what you put on does not impair effectiveness of required lighting equipment.

The NHTSA does govern the general light output and safety, not any individual light. Read the opinion carefully.

The NHTSA made Toyota recall driving lights that when added to the high beams, exceeded requirements.

Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) is recalling certain model year 2007-2013 FJ Cruiser vehicles manufactured January 25, 2006 through February 23, 2013 and equipped with a Toyota Auxiliary Driving Lamp Kits mounted to the front bumper. These lamp assemblies include 55 watt bulbs and due to this wattage and mounting angle, the combination of the upper beam headlamps plus the auxiliary lamps are too bright and exceed the maximum light output allowed for an upper beam headlamp. Therefore, these vehicles fail to conform to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, "Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment."

The “excessively bright” lights “may temporarily blind oncoming drivers, increasing the risk of a crash,” NHTSA says.

Depending on the lighting system of the vehicle, headlights are limited to about 20,000 to 75,000 candela, according to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108. Candela is a modern unit of light measurement, and one candlepower equates to about one candela.

The Squadron Pros have 76,194 candela all by themselves.

 

[gluaisrothai]

The NHTSA has been regulating lighting and output for quite a white, including driving lights. Regulations were promulgated in 2005 that are far different than the opinion from 1996. And that opinion does not conflict, it says they don't regulate as long as what you put on does not impair effectiveness of required lighting equipment.

The NHTSA does govern the general light output and safety, not any individual light. Read the opinion carefully.

The NHTSA made Toyota recall driving lights that when added to the high beams, exceeded requirements.

Toyota Motor Corporation (Toyota) is recalling certain model year 2007-2013 FJ Cruiser vehicles manufactured January 25, 2006 through February 23, 2013 and equipped with a Toyota Auxiliary Driving Lamp Kits mounted to the front bumper. These lamp assemblies include 55 watt bulbs and due to this wattage and mounting angle, the combination of the upper beam headlamps plus the auxiliary lamps are too bright and exceed the maximum light output allowed for an upper beam headlamp. Therefore, these vehicles fail to conform to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, "Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment."

The “excessively bright” lights “may temporarily blind oncoming drivers, increasing the risk of a crash,” NHTSA says.

Depending on the lighting system of the vehicle, headlights are limited to about 20,000 to 75,000 candela, according to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108. Candela is a modern unit of light measurement, and one candlepower equates to about one candela.

The Squadron Pros have 76,194 candela all by themselves.

I think you misunderstand the function of the NHTSA in this regard. They are a regulatory agency primarily responsible for type approval of vehicles and some types of components by manufacturers and other commercial entities. They do not have any authority to police modifications of vehicles by owners. That FJ recall was not mandatory, nor was there a penalty for non-compliance.

Control of consumer added lighting is left to the states. Some are prescriptive, some are liberal. CA allows for aux lights like the Squadron Pros coupled to the high beans.

And your candela reference is for headlights, not auxiliary driving lights.

You're really stretching brother.

 

[40Man]

I think you misunderstand the function of the NHTSA in this regard. They are a regulatory agency primarily responsible for type approval of vehicles and some types of components by manufacturers and other commercial entities. They do not have any authority to police modifications of vehicles by owners. That FJ recall was not mandatory, nor was there a penalty for non-compliance.

Control of consumer added lighting is left to the states. Some are prescriptive, some are liberal. CA allows for aux lights like the Squadron Pros coupled to the high beans.

And your candela reference is for headlights, not auxiliary driving lights.

You're really stretching brother.

CA code 26013 adopts the FMVSS and the NHTSA groups driving and high beams in the same category (which is why the aux high beam lights on the FJ Cruiser did not meet standards and was recalled. And the NHTSA can and does force recalls for lighting. If a cop sees your Bajas one he'll likely cite you with under section 24004. Do what you want.