Mod New Blue Hub Fan Clutch?

[cary]

I have two tubes of 10,000 on the way from Cdan. Had to feed his dogs.

 

[landtank]

I finally got my AC working last year and during the charging process the high side pressure was kind of high. After idling around 10 minutes I could hear the clutch come in stronger and the pressure immediately dropped. I then figured that the 6k stuff I had in there was on the thin side.

 

[Tools R Us]

I've been using 10k oil as of last year and have been filling the blues with 35ml of it from a full drain.

It seems like that 35ml is about twice as much as what the factory puts in.

I have put 50ml in a well cleaned blue hub without it staying on. My normal fill for them is ~45ml, so you can go a little more. The "downside" it takes a little longer to pump into the reservoir at cold start, has no effect on performance, other having a slightly longer start up roar and the fluid may last longer.

 

[landtank]

I have put 50ml in a well cleaned blue hub without it staying on. My normal fill for them is ~45ml, so you can go a little more. The "downside" it takes a little longer to pump into the reservoir at cold start, has no effect on performance, other having a slightly longer start up roar and the fluid may last longer.

thanks, I've been hesitant to go with more being afraid of having too much in there.

 

[96r50]

I experienced the same symptoms other folks did, with the OEM 3K and 6K fluids dying over the course of a year.

Just as another data point, I've currently got 40ml of 15K fluid in a new blue hub clutch, adjusted to approximately 115F, and it's working well for me (max coolant temperatures I've seen with the Scangauge is 190F)

 

[Flank]

I've been monitoring this thread diligently, as I am in Vegas and it was 112 deg today...

Today I ordered a blue clutch from Dan, and FWIW, he stated that the clutch was not intended to be modified and was considered a sealed unit... The 10K fluid that Toyota sells was intended for vehicles sold in the 70s when the fan clutches had fill holes.

So I asked him for two tubes of the 10K...

 

[retrofive]

So why the blue clutch and not the older black for this mod?

 

[Tyler93]

The black hub clutch can be modded also, I believe ToolsRus prefers it to the blue hub clutch for modding...

 

[retrofive]

The black hub clutch can be modded also, I believe ToolsRus prefers it to the blue hub clutch for modding...

Sort of remembered so, hence the prelude to the question.

 

[Tools R Us]

I've been monitoring this thread diligently, as I am in Vegas and it was 112 deg today...

Today I ordered a blue clutch from Dan, and FWIW, he stated that the clutch was not intended to be modified and was considered a sealed unit... The 10K fluid that Toyota sells was intended for vehicles sold in the 70s when the fan clutches had fill holes.

So I asked him for two tubes of the 10K...

I will bet that Dan is correct, they were never intended to be modified.

Living in the desert, you maybe disappointed with 10K in a blue hub.

 

[Tools R Us]

So why the blue clutch and not the older black for this mod?

The older style clutches are no longer available, so if you need/want new, your stuck with the new type blue hub. My observation, preference is, the old type blue or black Aisin is the strongest, the Eaton somewhat less, the new blue the wimpiest. By stepping up in viscosity, they all can be made to perform close to the same.

 

[cary]

I still cannot understand for the life of me why Toyota uses such a thin fluid in these. When I went to the 6k fluid, I figured I was good to go for years, now I am hoping that the 10k will hold up.

 

[Tools R Us]

I still cannot understand for the life of me why Toyota uses such a thin fluid in these.

Agree, they went a step further on the new blue by removing 1/2 of the shearing area, making it even weaker. My guess would be; they perceive the user wanting something quite/smooth and never using the rig hard enough to need more?

When I went to the 6k fluid, I figured I was good to go for years, now I am hoping that the 10k will hold up.

Our first insight into the new blue was with an A/C problem, IIRC most was learned on my brother's '97. Once the A/C problems were rectified, charged it in the shop, where it's swamp cooled, so ~90F and the gauge/temp readings were as expected.

It was a new clutch, we advanced the valve temp and added some 10K to the factory fill. In the shop tests it seemed to work great.

When driven in the heat, stop and go, etc, the vent temp would rise, sometimes like there was no A/C. Parked it in the sun on a hot day, install gauges, run with the doors open and hood closed. After idling for a while, the high side would increase and vent temp rise, like a bad fan clutch. Open the hood and the fan feels wimpy, WTF?

Played with a 14" electric pusher and it still wouldn't preform like mine with the early type clutch. Adjusted the valve back to stock and upgrading to 20K solved the problem. The pusher took a dump and is disconnected, currently abandon in place.

My guess on what happens: Once a certain heat load is reached, it overpowers the clutch. The heat reduces fluid viscosity, reducing clutch effectiveness. The valve is fully open, so shearing like mad, this adds more heat, further reducing clutch effectiveness. The clutch ends up preforming like a failed clutch in some stress conditions. If this is what happens, it can't be good for fluid life? I have seen the pressure switch cycle the compressor on the high side (what +400psi) with a blue hub and the motor operating in the normal range.

What we learned: The earlier clutches are much stronger, the new blue Aisin requires about double the viscosity to preform like the earlier Aisin. Excessive shearing, running the fan when it's not needed isn't good. Leaving the valve in the stock range and stepping up much higher on the fluid viscosity is the best setup that we have found to date, especially for A/C performance.

Fluid life is hard to judge, it's too early. My early Aisin has had the same 10K fluid in it for what 5yrs and it's still strong. I haven't heard of a refilled clutch dieing locally and AZ climate is very hard on clutches. Most refilled locally are original to the rigs, I know of one that has over 300k mi on it. So they are very durable, as long as the spring doesn't rust out or bearing die, likely to last the life of the rig, with refills every X number of years?

 

[Tapage]

can we make any kind of performance test with the new 10K fluid in fan clutches to determinate if are in a good range of " work " .. ?

Something like with a normal operative temp engine ( said something oil temp at 140°F ) and stop the fan should turn twice or so .. ? before a complete stop ?

 

[Tools R Us]

can we make any kind of performance test with the new 10K fluid in fan clutches to determinate if are in a good range of " work " .. ?

Something like with a normal operative temp engine ( said something oil temp at 140°F ) and stop the fan should turn twice or so .. ? before a complete stop ?

Nope, there are too many variables, needs differ, rig setup, etc.

If I lived in a hot tropical climate, where it never got cold and had a new type blue hub, would refill with 20K fluid and drive happy.

 

[95Fantasma80]

So for Southern California where it gets to 95-100 on Summer and 65-80 on the cold days, should I run 10K or maybe 15K? My trucks A/C has seen better days it hardly even cools now, but I know with the HUB and evac and replace the R134 it should be like new.

Landtank and Tools R us you guys seem to know the most about this in all the threads I been reading.... I read that one of you can mod them for us and it was like $200 or something, I know I would not be good at this so I was wondering if you guys still offer the service?

Tools? Land?

 

[Michael Hanson]

I just looked in the shop and found I had 2 brand new black clutches, IM going to modify them for later use. 10,000 OR 15,000? 45 OR 50 ML.? Thanks, MIke

 

[Tools R Us]

So for Southern California where it gets to 95-100 on Summer and 65-80 on the cold days, should I run 10K or maybe 15K? My trucks A/C has seen better days it hardly even cools now, but I know with the HUB and evac and replace the R134 it should be like new.

Landtank and Tools R us you guys seem to know the most about this in all the threads I been reading.... I read that one of you can mod them for us and it was like $200 or something, I know I would not be good at this so I was wondering if you guys still offer the service?

Tools? Land?

I help locals, don't do it for hire. It's a really simple process, this link explains it well.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota-truck-tech/167678-fan-clutch-service.html

 

[Tools R Us]

I just looked in the shop and found I had 2 brand new black clutches, IM going to modify them for later use. 10,000 OR 15,000? 45 OR 50 ML.? Thanks, MIke

If they are true old school black hub Aisin clutches. I would refill with 10K and ~45ml.

 

[80t0ylc]

So for Southern California where it gets to 95-100 on Summer and 65-80 on the cold days, should I run 10K or maybe 15K? My trucks A/C has seen better days it hardly even cools now, but I know with the HUB and evac and replace the R134 it should be like new.......

Correct me if I'm wrong, Kevin, shouldn't he (or anyone for that matter), just be concerned with the hottest temp range that their rig will be exposed to? The fan clutch will just free wheel, or stay in it's lowest step, in the cooler weather, once the fluid gets pumped into the reservoir, until hot enough temps are experienced to engage the clutch.