Build Mitsubishi 4D34-3AT3B diesel swap into 94 FZJ80

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JL,

can you give me your opinion on the noise level between your Cummings and the Mitsu engine? Obviously, the Mitsu isn't implanted yet but I figure you have a good idea by now. Also, will you experience similar vibratory issues as a CM 4BT, for example in the 80 engine bay?

Thanks.
 
Fromage said:
The only issue is I lose the VC, which works so well in the snow. I need a T case that does all three, 2wd, 4wd VC and 4WD locked!
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#1... I hate Viscous Couplers... (IMO, they contribute to rollovers and I've read in two places where a seized VC was thought to be the reason for a ruined front diff)

#2...:D

Hilux said:
Working on it...

Heep NP242..

"This transfer case gives the following operating modes: 2wd, 4wd with the center differential open, 4wd with the center differential locked, neutral, and 4wd low range (center differential locked)"

IIRC, there is also a "revolver" or "Over Under" for Heep cases that lets you clock them up-side-down.. All NP cases that I know of can be clocked. This just lets you keep on clock'n:D

It also came behind the AW4 tranny,,, oh here! :p

The Jeep New Process / NVG 242 Transfer Case

The Jeep AW4 Transmissions - Novak Conversions

"A similar transmission is used in some Toyota RWD applications, known as the A340."

A340 Transmission issues and FAQs

Jeep - 4x4 Basics - How Jeep 4x4 Systems Work - Selec-Trac II - 4WD SUVs

Jeep Select Trac NP 242 Transfer Case Information


:D

Also, I think there is a Hummer case that is fully off-set and fixed yoke;)


mmmmm, hand brake turns.... :drool:
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alia176 said:
JL,

can you give me your opinion on the noise level between your Cummings and the Mitsu engine? Obviously, the Mitsu isn't implanted yet but I figure you have a good idea by now. Also, will you experience similar vibratory issues as a CM 4BT, for example in the 80 engine bay?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

It's still a bit hard to compare as I've only had the 4D running on a pallet jack, but I have spent a lot of time looking at the Mitsubishi trucks that the engine is used in and observing noise and vibration.

I would say, first impression, it is going to be much more docile than a 4BT. I think it is mainly because of the injection system. The computerized injection system that's used on these engines has independent control over injection pressure, volume and injection timing, which are just not as controllable in a mechanical pump like the 4BTs have. The VE pumps used on most 4BTs do have timing adjustability through a timing plunger that works off the internal pump pressure, so they can advance timing as the engine RPMs build, but it's pretty caveman-like compared to the super smooth servo actuated computer controlled setup on the Mitsubishi engine, which can retard or advance timing on a variety of factors. On a full power run I doubt there will be much difference as power is noise, but around town at light throttle and idle I figure it will be much better.

Vibration is an unknown at this point. I think it will be about as bad as a BJ60 with a 3B. I drove one of those for years, it's not that big of a deal in my mind. That said, the 6BT is a relatively smooth engine, it only wants to jump sideways when it's very cold, or on initial startup or shutdown, then it will shake your fillings out. Other than that it's very different than a 4 cyl cummins.

JL
 
Hilux said:
#1... I hate Viscous Couplers... (IMO, they contribute to rollovers and I've read in two places where a seized VC was thought to be the reason for a ruined front diff)

#2...:D
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How so? I also think AWD contributes to rollovers as it makes a very high CG vehicle handle like it should not. My FZJ80 has got to be one of the most impressive vehicles I have driven for traction and stability. In 2wd I would bet it would be screaming for mercy and letting me know it's not happy.

Your find on the NP transfer case is interesting. Most of the NP transfer cases seen in newer Jeeps (newer than a J10) and other light duty 4wds are all thin wall cast aluminum with slip yoke outputs. That to me is a huge red flag. The Cruiser T case is a quality piece, one of the reasons I feel this swap is so sweet is it allows to retain all the good parts (a442F, H2AV) and junk the... junk (1FZ) :D
 
Fromage said:
How so? I also think AWD contributes to rollovers as it makes a very high CG vehicle handle like it should not. My FZJ80 has got to be one of the most impressive vehicles I have driven for traction and stability. In 2wd I would bet it would be screaming for mercy and letting me know it's not happy.
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It's pretty hard to put a vehicle over on the first swerve, they usually go over when the driver screws up the correction and has to contend with the momentum of the vehicle swinging from one side right over to the other.
 
that is how i do it...
never worry about hitting unexpected snow or ice, just push the button and away i go.
astr said:
For myself, I lock the hubs when the first snow flies and unlock them (if I remember to do so) when winter is over.
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Fromage said:
How so?
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Front ABS, rear?

Vehicle goes into slide, front or rear lock, not both... VC locks.


Driver tries turning into the skid per drivers ed. and winds up over correcting...


B/c it's a front wheel drive after the VC locks, for the most part... And you do not counter steer with FWD's... You point the wheels of a FWD in the direction you want to go, and floor it.

With an open center diff, you can lock one set of axles up, or pull the E brake and arrest the rear... To a stop.

Do that with a VC'd rig and it'll instantly bump...


But that's just my untested theory...


Another untested theory is, pulling the ABS fuse with a load that can get away with you...Tow dolly, over loaded single axle...

To me, that would let you lock all 4 and flat-spot the tires to a stop... Instead of the front not locking, possibly resulting in the above...
 
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Hilux said:
B/c it's a front wheel drive after the VC locks, for the most part... And you do not counter steer with FWD's... You point the wheels of a FWD in the direction you want to go, and floor it.
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I've heard this approach before, but my instincts still follow the correct-the-slide approach and they work well for me even in fwd cars.
The problem with the steer and plant foot approach is that a wheel with no traction has no preference for the direction it's sliding in. It's true that you never actually have no traction but wheels spinning under power don't have a good influence on where you'd like the vehicle to go.

The other problem is, in such emergency situations (compared to drifting intentionally) you usually want to scrub off speed. Planting the foot doesn't help that.
 
Ahem, back at the ranch.....
 

Guys I think you are overthinking this a wee bit. In an AWD setup like this, if any axle locks up it's just a matter of releasing the brake pedal a bit to get the axle spinning again as you have driveline torque behind that braked wheel. Usually you are not carrying a lot of torque through the viscous coupler as your foot is off the throttle and on the brake, and we're dealing with a low traction situation that is unlikely to really generate high torque feeding back through the driveline so the VC is practically open, or biasing low amounts of torque. This talk of planting the accelerator and steering out of a skid and stuff works great in a 250hp audi Quattro but in a Land-Cruiser bulldozer some finesse and careful steering is what will save your butt. My point is mainly that the viscous coupler does such a good job at masking traction problems that it's easy to forget that you are running on ball bearings, and by that time is is too late to do anything, but this is similar to what you get out of an AWD system with a center diff.

 
One: I can't wait to see how this turns out...

And two: I'd love to know, or have a list of trucks that transmission came with...

Having that would be killer IMO.


Good luck, can't wait...
 
Since I hate threads that are updated frequently and go silent, I'll offer some explanation as to the lack of updates. I have been using the FZJ80 pretty much non-stop as a trailer hauling rig for most of the summer and I absolutely 100% need the truck as a plow for my property over the winter.I'm concerned that if I dismantle it now, it will not be back in action in time for winter.

Since the 1FZ runs and there is technically nothing wrong with the truck, I am going to wait until spring before I swap the engine out. Everything is ready to go and it's a little frustrating to have to wait 6 months now, but I really don't want to be walking up our private road all winter if I hit a snag with the swap, and I don't want an untested beater rig as a daily driver and plow truck while I work on the FZJ80.

All the more annoying is that I keep feeding this FZJ hundreds of gallons of fuel with this nice TDI motor sitting in the garage. I just got back from a 4000 km trip out east, towing my car trailer, and the worst tank was 320 kms on 80L of fuel. That's twenty freaking five litres per 100 kms.

So, I guess this means I'm going to stop updating this thread for a while. I promise to fire it back up once the snow starts to melt.

JL
 
Fromage said:
All the more annoying is that I keep feeding this FZJ hundreds of gallons of fuel with this nice TDI motor sitting in the garage. I just got back from a 4000 km trip out east, towing my car trailer, and the worst tank was 320 kms on 80L of fuel. That's twenty freaking five litres per 100 kms.

So, I guess this means I'm going to stop updating this thread for a while. I promise to fire it back up once the snow starts to melt.

JL
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Don't feel bad. My leadfooted copilot managed to consume the same amount of fuel between Medicine Hat and Calgary this summer in my HDJ81 with a RTT and trailer. It's even harder to tolerate when its diesel you're pouring in.
 
lowenbrau said:
It sure as heck was... about 125kph too. 325km till the fuel light came on. Thank God I don't have a pyro.
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That is impressive, I did not think that would be possible. I have to say I am guilty of similar stunts too, but mostly in diesels. You floor the pedal on a 1FZ towing 6K lbs and it sounds like you're stepping on a volume control. Nothing really happens but it gets louder.

This tank was burnt pulling up to Antigonish NS at about 65 mph, 3AM, up and down some semi steep rolling hills and I was babying it up the hills to try and minimize the loud sucking noise coming from the tank. Tandem axle trailer on 7.50X16s, and a SII Rover pickup on the back. Total weight of trailer and load was probably nearing 6K lbs. Of course, I don't doubt that the Mitsu motor would have done it slower, but I prefer 45 mph at max efficiency than 55 mph with fuel pouring out the tailpipes.

25l/100 is 9 miles per gallon!

The 1FZ got 20L/100 all the way home too, empty, with a 1PZ strapped down on the trailer.
 
not my fault if I'm used to speed on the highway....get a truck with balls.....says the lead-footed copilot.... ;-)
 
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we're currently on a six week road trip and the '97 is indeed sucking down the fuel. My 4 year old thinks that we're on a tour of the petrol stations in America! We're probably averaging around 13 mpg doing the usual 75 - 80 mph.
 
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