Minimum Requirements for an expedition rig? (9 Viewers)

[rusty_tlc]

I am not sure how highly I rate the need for a firearm as a part of "expedition" gear. Nothing against them... I carry a handgun every day and I am never in the field without a gun or two. But there is a difference between going out here in the back country of Alaska and traveling across borders to different countries. A gun will buy you more legal trouble than you want to think about in many countries. Heck there are a lot of states in the US that pile the paperwork and regulations on you over firearms if you want to take a gun with you while road tripping.

The odds of needing a gun to procure food are pretty long unless things have gone pretty bad for you in more than one way.

In terms of needing one for self defense... I would rather spend a few years in a Mexican prison than be dead I guess... But I think I would prefer even more to plan and work really hard to avoid putting myself in a situation that has the potential to deteriorate to where using a firearm in another country is my only option.




Mark...

I've been knocking around the desert for my entire adult life, 40 odd years, and never felt the need of a firearm. Of course we don't have much in the way of large predators down here. (In town is a whole other matter)

I have however put a fair amount of thought and research into a firearm for survival.

I have concluded that any gun used for personal defense will be practically useless for survival. Except maybe to use as a signaling device, ie three shots fired into the air.

After much thought and research I have concluded that a 22 rifle would be the best choice. The gun itself is light, the ammo is also light, a whole box of 22 longs weigh less than two 30-06 rounds. This affords you the chance to carry a lot of ammo and miss a lot of shots. Small game is much more abundant than large game, a 22 will leave a rabbit or chuckar intact. A 22 is also inexpensive can also be stowed full time inside a quarter panel, appropriately sealed against the environment.

But, as you say, by the time one needs to start hunting for food many other things will have to have gone very wrong.

 

[Mark W]

I've been knocking around the desert for my entire adult life, 40 odd years, and never felt the need of a firearm. Of course we don't have much in the way of large predators down here. (In town is a whole other matter)

I have however put a fair amount of thought and research into a firearm for survival.

I have concluded that any gun used for personal defense will be practically useless for survival. Except maybe to use as a signaling device, ie three shots fired into the air.

After much thought and research I have concluded that a 22 rifle would be the best choice. The gun itself is light, the ammo is also light, a whole box of 22 longs weigh less than two 30-06 rounds. This affords you the chance to carry a lot of ammo and miss a lot of shots. Small game is much more abundant than large game, a 22 will leave a rabbit or chuckar intact. A 22 is also inexpensive can also be stowed full time inside a quarter panel, appropriately sealed against the environment.

But, as you say, by the time one needs to start hunting for food many other things will have to have gone very wrong.

I would tend to agree with this. I carry larger for dangerous game protection here. But if I was going to carry a 'survival" firearm it would most likely be a rifle chambered for 22LR. Possible as large as a .223 if I wanted to press it into service for broader uses. But a 22LR would be way out in the lead for my consideration.

But even though I feel almost naked when I travel to Canada and have to leave my carry gun at home, if I was going to be spending significant time and distance traveling to far flung locations and crossing international borders, I am virtually certain I would not have a gun along.

For the guys that are weekending near home or bopping over a state or two for a few days... considerations on this front are a lot simpler.


Mark...

 

[RiverRatMatt]

If I'm willing to carry the extra weight and feel like I'm going into a place there might be risk of big bears, I'll carry my 12g pump with slug/00/slug/00 etc. Otherwise I almost always have my 9mm Glock for Cougars and 2-legged threats.

A good .22 pistol is a good investment. It will keep you alive if you're good with it and there is sufficient small game in the area, and most importantly it is cheap to PRACTICE with.

That is a big key to all of this... PRACTICE WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT. Jacks, guns, wrenches, etc. Its been mentioned above but is worth mentioning again...

Thank you for the awesome info btw, I've learned a lot

 

[nmt252355]

I think at this point we'd all agree that "expedition" means something different to everyone. If its means traveling higways and back roads to/through Mexico or Canada...leave the guns at home. If you're planning on a month long trip through the Alaska back country bring the pain and have the Casull on your hip. If you're planning on a 2 month excursion into the African bush or bushwhacking through the amazon...bring the desert eagle. It all depending very much on where you are going and where you'll have to travel through.

Again, knowing your; terrain, climate, local laws, local customs, etc... will go a long way and that knowledge should be exercised welllll before you decide to unholster your firearm to ward off bad things or find food. I guess my point is/was that if your definition of "expedition" truly takes you that far off the beaten path for that long and you have to be 100% self reliant...I'd like to know I have something in my vehicle that will ensure my safety and a meal if need be.

I guess the combination of getting older, having kids, and seeing people make bad choices a lot (in SAR) I find myself leaning more towards the "better to have and not need than to need and not have" mantra....just make sure you won't end up in jail if you do take one.

 

[rusty_tlc]

I use to keep a 20G youth model 870 in the tent trailer, mostly for when we have to camp in State or National Park Campgrounds. I worry more about two legged predators than anything else. Also there are a few campgrounds that have problem bears due to people feeding them or not storing food properly. We don't see either of these problems when we boondock camp.

The 20G is on loan to a friends son who started bird hunting this year. I've been considering replacing it with a short barrel 12G 870. For me a shotgun is a good personal defense weapon. I feel comfortable shooting it and like the fact that it has a relatively short range. The last is important in a crowded campground or urban setting.

The real solution would be to stay out of campgrounds and move out of town. The reality is I'd rather camp than stay in hotels when we travel and I have a job that anchors me to city living (darn that old mortgage payment!).

 

[steve]

Although it might be prudent, I've never carried a firearm living in Africa. I favor edged weapons personally and I always know where my bush knife is (nice k-bar machete) but a gun just never seemed necessary. African cities tend to have a bit of crime (or more than a bit - Joberg is downright NY-dangerous in parts) but I leave them as soon as I can, and out in the bush is much safer than you might imagine.

Worst, most tense moment I've ever had living in the bush - couple years back I was camped near a small cluster of villages, mostly catching up with some old friends. At night folks would, naturally, show up at my fire and we'd eat and shoot the breeze about who died or who got married and such. It's what you do when you've been away and this goes on for a couple days. There was this one guy who kept showing up every night at dinner time who I didn't know and he never brought anything, but he was always there if somebody else brought fresh kudu or I was cooking my old standby (lots of pasta with extra oil and salt). It was decided that this was pretty presumptuous of him so the chief had a quiet word with him the next day. He stopped showing up uninvited. End of story.

I do carry a stick like all the local men but I've only had to use it once. There was a large zebra snake (cobra, spitting and biting type) which apparently lived on one side of camp and hunted on the other, so he passed right through camp every evening. Hated to do it but it was just a matter of time before one of my crew stepped on him or otherwise got in his way, so we ganked him one night after dinner. Shame - fine looking snake but it was gonna be him or one of us.

There are other animals about that might warrant a firearm, or so you might think. Elephants generally keep to themselves, especially at night, but I wouldn't fancy trying to shoot one anyway with anything less than a major rifle. Probably be in dutch with the fish and game guys anyway if you had no permit. Lions can be a concern but, little known fact, they seem to think of tents as solid objects. I've had them in my camp and they just sniffed around and woofed a bit, nothing between us but thin nylon. Go figure.

Not sure having a gun would help much with the lions anyway. Hope you guys don't mind yet another story, but a few years back some farmers I know had a problem with a male lion. It had apparently wandered into the farm area ('farm' in namibia really means cows) and started killing cattle so something had to be done. These guys are farmers now, but back in 'the bad old days' in the 70s and 80s, most of these guys fought a nasty border war as part of the south african defense force, and at least two of them were long-range recon specialists. Very nice guys, bit older now but tougher sons of bitches simply do not exist. So they went out, and they had a pretty good idea where the lion was due to a recently killed cow. They got out of the truck in fairly open country, fingers on triggers, but were only absolutely sure the lion was nearby when it had it's mouth around one guy's face. That quiet, that fast. The guy actually lived although he has nice scars on both sides above his ears - told me with a distinct shudder that he has no recollection of the gunshots that followed, just "it's stinking, stinking breath".

I know I'm making Africa sound all dangerous but it really isn't. Seriously, the biggest dangers I routinely face out there are traffic accidents and mosquitos. So I take malaria meds and drive a big and unusually-reliable truck.

 

[John McVicker]

Steve,

Interesting stories that have greatly added to this thread.

John

 

[steve]

Then I'll risk a picture. Behold my baby, unloaded for use as an ambulance. Poor woman in the back - she was sick so I was taking her to the hospital but she'd never been in a truck before. Made her sick to her stomach. Alas, the river in the background was rain-swollen and treacherous but it had to be crossed. We waited hours but it hardly went down at all, and it turned out to be deeper than I thought. Locked it all, ground my way straight across. Went sideways a bit in the middle but got through in the end - thank god for the snorkel.

 

[RiverRatMatt]

Wow, I really enjoy reading your stories and insight, Steve. Sweet cruiser too!!

I would love to be in your position... I am an EMT and a minimalist.... I would love to be out there in the African outback with you.

How did you get where you are today?

 

[nmt252355]

Steve - excellent stories. I'd venture a guess that most Americans who view Africa as this super gnarly, big, bad, crazy place to visit would learn a lot from your stories. I know personally I've learned from your posts. thank you.

please, I'd encourage you to continue to post on this website. I imagine people could learn a lot from your experiences and insight. A lot of people read on-line and learn about places...far fewer people actually experience those places first hand as you have.

 

[steve]

Thanks, Matt. Well, after anthropology school I was looking for a field site, but my colleagues have scoured the world pretty well for un-studied groups. It's so bad in some places that I have friends who literally wait in line to ask questions of their group (in australia) because the anthropologists outnumber the subjects! So I kept my ears open. A german anthropologist working in the area heard tell of a strange group in a remote mountain range in namibia about whom even the locals knew little. He mentioned this over dinner to a colleague, who two weeks later was having dinner with a group that included my PhD advisor. And he called me. Turns out nobody knew anything about these guys. They'd been glimpsed in the 1930s and a small group had been briefly contacted in 1964, but since then, basically nothing.

Few months later I was headed off into the bush, knowing nothing about nothing, with only a name and some GPS coordinates on a slip of paper. Took me a month to get up there and when I did, the village was empty. Couple of weeks later I found somebody who knew a guy who'd seen my guy 'recently', a mere 6 months ago. Another week of plowing brush (which nearly wrecked my rented bakkie) and a long hike into the mountains and there they were. I found my guy (whose name means 'we run away', apparently what they used to do when outsiders show up), we shook hands and we've been pals ever since.

Took me longer to get funding than I thought it would, so it the better part of 2 years before I got back there. I'd expected another tough time finding him as his people move around a good bit, so I set up camp at a tourist spot on the outskirts of their usual territory. I asked around about the guy and right off the bat, found somebody who actually knows him, had in fact seen him not 2 miles away. It was getting dark by now and driving in the dark in Africa is to be avoided (too many things to hit), but I didn't want to miss him so I took off immediately. Found him just as night was really setting in, sitting alone next to a 'holy fire' which is used to converse with the ancestors. He was completely unsurprised to see me - said he had been up in the mountains at his own holy fire but the ancestors told him I was coming back, so he came to meet me here. That ... good lord, what do you say to that? Interesting place, Africa.

Truth be told, I really wish I knew more of the stuff EMTs do. Many has been the time that I could have used this knowledge, but I don't know if it would change my usual procedure - get in the truck. Can't rightly be said that I've saved any lives out there but my truck has saved quite a few.

Pictures really can't do this place justice, but here's one of We-Run-Away near where we first met. Even the the cruiser couldn't get up here.

 

[rusty_tlc]

You should write a book, I'd love to read it.

 

[sky90]

Thks for sharing yr experiences Steve. Holding my breath for more.

 

[steve]

Well, I'll risk overstaying my welcome for one more story. Call it 'The Chief, Dharma, and the Girl who Wasn't Sick'.

For my first field season I got a little money, enough to rent a pickup and be out there for a couple of months. I spent time living at We-Run-Away's village, but I also wanted to cover more ground. I ended up camped at a another village with a friendly Chief, nice bloke, and my first thought when I met this guy was 'he is gonna die, and soon'. About a month earlier he'd tripped while walking around with a spear and it'd poked right through his hand, or almost. It was suppurating nastily, and I begged him to let me take him to the clinic (2 hours of bad road away). He just laughed and said it was nothing. Tough folks, these.

We camped at this place because it was as close as we could get to several villages I'd heard about, all clustered around this one big spring, the legendary heart of this group's territory. Turned out to be about 8 miles away so not so bad a hike, except that much of the trail was in the deep sand of a river bed and it was about 110. My guide and I went there and back in a day, got home at dusk completely wiped out, dirty and covered with flies. It was all we could do to wash up in our buckets, eat a bit, drink much tea, and crawl into our still-smoking-hot tents.

Some time later and I'm roller-skating with Jenna Elfman (don't ask me why) and I seem to be charming the pants off her when she turns to me and says loudly ‘Moro moro! Wa panduka nawaa?” (Good morning! Are you sleeping well?). I turn to ask her how she knows herero when I jolt awake. It was 4 am, cool and moonlit, and the Chief was in our camp.

Turns out there is a sick woman in the village who needs to go to the clinic. Knowing the Chief’s opinion of the clinic, I immediately assume that this woman must be at death’s door. Not sure what to do so I dig out my satellite phone (the nearest real phone is about 90 miles away) and my copy of the Namibian phone book (there is only one, for the whole country). I find the number for the nearest clinic - no answer. I call the next nearest, a proper hospital a good 40 miles further. A bored voice answers and gives unhelpful advice. He says to call the nearer place (I told him I did) and when I ask if he can send an ambulance he whimpers that surely I have a vehicle in a ‘can’t you do it?’ tone.

I thank him and cinching up my resolve, ask the Chief to take me to the woman. New plan: see if she is still alive, then call my mom (a nurse) in the States and ask for advice. If it looks like the woman can survive the trip, I pop her into my truck and boogie.

As I grab my stick and flashlight, the story changes. The woman is actually in a different village a rough 20 kilometers in the wrong direction. Now the Chief says she had a baby a few months ago and is vomiting and in great pain. Great - a postpartum infection left untreated and now gone systemic. Splendid. This woman is gonna die in my truck before we get her anywhere. Well, I hope that the local police, doughnut-eaters of the first water, are a bit more sympathetic than I'd expect of a foreigner with a fresh corpse.

To my surprise, the chief insists we bring her back here for him to see. I point out that this would add at least an hour or two to the drive, time she could ill afford if she is really bad off. The smart move would be to head straight to the hospital, but he remains adamant. A bit mystified, I agree. Wait, why doesn't he come along and check her out on the spot? Then we could head straight for …no, no, no. He nixes this as well, offhandedly, like I'm not getting it. I figure he is hoping to forego a horrific drive and who could blame him. I’d looked at the 'road' we were about to head out on and it's barely a goat path. I'm not looking forward to driving it at all, to say nothing of 'at night'. So we get a young kid for a guide, tossed a few things out of the back seat, and set out. It's 4:30 am.

By sun up, we’ve bounced and crashed our way deeper into the brush. Darkness really adds something to a lousy road. We moved slowly but still take a pounding, bottoming out a couple of times. Foolish to try this in the dark but we have no real choice here.

We finally get near the village and fearing the worst, drive right in to find a crowd milling about. A few folks look familiar as I've already eaten with them but most are strangers. They all great us warmly, like we're arriving at a party, and seem bizarrely nonplussed for a group with a dying woman in their midst. Biting back my impatience, I exchange greetings as if we just popped by for a visit. Hell's bells, when the chief of the region hounds you out of bed in the wee hours, you’d expect a bit more concern from those on the scene.

I finally say to heck with protocol and bluntly ask to see the woman in question. My guide rolls his eyes at my lack of decorum but we are quickly led to a small hut. Inside is a woman of about 25 huddled under an old blanket, no sign of the baby and a quick inspection shows no obvious swelling or bleeding anywhere I could see. The woman is awake and alert. Very alert - she actually seems a bit alarmed to see us. My guide asks a few questions and the real problem finally emerges: the malady is not medical, but magical. Someone put a curse on her and she needs a witch doctor like the Chief, as all chief's are thought to have magical power. Those around her flatly refuse to let her be taken anywhere.

I’m relieved to hear that the woman is not physically unwell but this is followed shortly by a touch of frustration. Not only have they just wasted several hours of our time that we really wanted to spend sleeping, they’ve also burned quite a bit of my gas. I’ll now be obliged to head straight back to town to resupply the next time I go anywhere, so this just took days out of my project.

I guess I’m glad that they feel they could send for me for help, but as we head home in the gathering light, I wonder what the heck just happened. Surely they knew that her illness required a witch doctor (not my word, by the way, their's), so why send for me? The kid we have guiding us tells us that they sent word to the Chief that the woman was sick, being specific as to her symptoms but vague as to their cause. Also, they were surprised when the Chief himself didn't show.

We get back to our camp and the Chief is still there, and soon furious when we tell him how they wasted our time. I’m a little sleep-deprived and slow, but eventually things start to fall into place. Surely the Chief knows a curse when he hears about one, why did he think this was anything else? Ah, what makes me think he didn't know? What the folks with the sick woman really wanted was for the Chief himself to make the trip. My guide mentions that the folks in the village were disappointed when the Chief did not come himself, and saw this as further evidence of his lack of concern for that part of his bailiwick. The Chief just smiles and shakes his head at such foolishness.

It was only later, when I understood more about chiefs and how they get to be chiefs that I really get what happened. The Chief got word of the sick woman but knew what was really up, knew she wasn't sick or probably even cursed. But if the chief goes, everyone would know he’d been summoned and you don't get to do that to a chief. If he doesn’t go, he is being callous even though the issue is ostensibly legit and he is the man for the job. He can’t do either so instead he sends me on a fool’s errand to call their bluff.

When the Chief didn’t show but I did, they all knew the jig was up and backpedaled fast. They looked bad for crying wolf, the Chief looked generous for calling out extraordinary resources (me), and he gets to summon outrage for seeing his generosity wasted. Wonderfully elegant solution, and miffed as I was, I couldn't help but admire it. I mean I knew the Chief was a very sharp guy (his hand not withstanding) but this is brilliant.

Not only does he settle the family business, he takes the time to smooth it over with me. The Chief lived (aided some by salt-water soaks and Neosporin) and this incident lent our relationship a certain camaraderie born of shared tribulation. Remember that time I woke you up in the middle of the night and it turns out those so-and-sos were scamming us? My, how we did laugh afterwards.

But that was later. For now, we were light on gas so we had to go resupply. I wrote in my journal that when I got money to buy my own truck, 'think about something bigger, with longer legs, possibly a land cruiser.' The rest is history.

 

[Mark W]

Hell Steve, Don't worry about "overstaying your welcome".... keep the stories coming and it gives this forum some cred.


Or maybe we can get Brian to start a forum here for BTDT tales.


Mark...

 

[Capitalguy]

Steve, fascinating stuff! and in a part of the world a lot of people, including myself will probably never see. Keep your stories coming.

 

[Lugal]

Dude, Steve, I used to be an archaeologist in a previous life, but your stories beat anything that I could tell. Please keep them coming. (And if you're trying to get up a team for a project, drop me a line. My IT job is boring me to death.)

 

[steve]

Some pictures then.

The unfortunate zebra snake we killed. Hey, their venom is both neurotoxic and necrotizing - get bit and count on yearly visits to the doctor to scrape out dead tissue, like forever.

One of the many times I got hauled out of bed in the middle of the night - these guys got stuck and walked 10 miles into my camp for help. They snoozed till dawn in my supply tent, we all ate breakfast, and we went to winch their asses out. Just once, I'd love somebody to wake me up just to tell me what a great job I'm doing.

Out and about in the harsh part of the desert about 10 miles from where the idiot with no tire iron walked out of the desert.

Pretty much the only thing out there (besides another truck) that you have to be wary of while in the truck. This guy backed us down the road about half a mile, sauntering casually just to show us who's boss. Hint: it's him.

 

[AdventureToolCompany]

Steve-

Great story and wonderfully written.

Thanks!

 

[madinal]

Great info here....I got a set of radiator hoses and a fan belt and shrink wrapped them to a piece of fiberboard. They reside under the passenger seat for a little insurance. I have a service manual in a zip lock bag under the drivers seat.

I would say the thing that makes any vehicle an expedition class vehicle is the knowledge of the operators and their ability to use the tools they have an to improvise on the things what they don't.