Mini truck diesels... dive in or stick with the 22re (4 Viewers)

[STAGE 2]

I've been searching for a 85 longbed for some time now with a 22re. As most know that engine wont win any drag races, but it will run foreve and is decent on gas. Well, last week I came upon an 85 longbed with a diesel. I don't know what exact engine it is but I'm assuming its the 2l-T. I wasn't aware that this was ever an option for yotas in the US so for most of last week I used my google-fu to good use, spent a bunch of time here and over at toyotadiesel.com and did a bunch of research. After all that I'm still torn and need some advice, preferably from folks who have these. Here's the way I see it.

22re
Pros - uber reliable, easy to work on, fantastic aftermarket support
Cons - underpowered, have to pass smog

Diesel
Pros - more torque way down low, much better gas mileage, don't have to pay extortion fees to the smog man anymore
Cons - harder to obtain parts, reliability... I think.

Its this last factor thats making me really hesitant. I'm very anal about my vehicles. I maintain them to the highest standards and I expect them to perform in the harshest conditions. It seems the diesel is really fragile where hot weather or steep grades are concerned. And then there is the head issue. I expect my gas engines to do 300K before anything major is opened up. Diesels should go at least that long.

I really like the power and mileage and I really really like telling CARB to go fark themselves. I just dont know if the engine is sturdy enough for what I'm looking for.

Thoughts?

 

[Jonathan_Ferguson]

Well, last week I came upon an 85 longbed with a diesel. I don't know what exact engine it is but I'm assuming its the 2l-T.

If it's legit it can only be a 2L.

Diesel
Pros - more torque way down low, much better gas mileage, don't have to pay extortion fees to the smog man anymore
Cons - harder to obtain parts, reliability... I think.

False

It seems the diesel is really fragile where hot weather or steep grades are concerned. And then there is the head issue.

What head issue? - I've had my 2L beyond 805 Celcius(1,481 Fahrenheit) and since had the Enigne completely torn down. The issue seems to be only with the 2L-T and only with grey imports from Japan, aswell as Engines imported from Japan, which can most likely be attributed to how they were looked after early in their lives.

Want a read?

 

[STAGE 2]

If it's legit it can only be a 2L.

I was under the imporession that the 2L-T was available in 85 and 86.

False

I don't have the torque curves, but the 22re reaches max torque at 3400 rpm whereas the 2L reaches max at 2200rpm.

Then again these are just numbers and I've never driven one of the diesels. How does it compare to the 22re on the butt dyno.

What head issue? - I've had my 2L beyond 805 Celcius(1,481 Fahrenheit) and since had the Enigne completely torn down. The issue seems to be only with the 2L-T and only with grey imports from Japan, aswell as Engines imported from Japan, which can most likely be attributed to how they were looked after early in their lives.

From what I've read, cracked heads are not limited to the turbo variant. They aren't even limited to the 2L series as 3L engines have experienced this as well. And then there is the overheating issue (which is obviously related to the head cracking).

While it may be the case that the imported engines were abused, there are plenty of examples from aussies who have ran this engine and maintained it only to have the head crack.

 

[Jonathan_Ferguson]

I was under the imporession that the 2L-T was available in 85 and 86.

Correct, but not in a Pickup. - It was available in the 4Runner and the LJ70 faux Landcruiser.

I don't have the torque curves, but the 22re reaches max torque at 3400 rpm whereas the 2L reaches max at 2200rpm.

Then again these are just numbers and I've never driven one of the diesels. How does it compare to the 22re on the butt dyno.

In this vintage of Hilux, Australia didn't get the R series of Engines. The petrol engines were the Y series and it too makes the 2L look lame.
Even Toyota knew their diesel engines lacked torque, fitting the first generation Hilux and all 4Runners with the 2L-T with 4.88:1 Diff ratios. All Hiluxes from the second generation with the 2L and the third genration with the 3L and 5L-E were fitted with 4.56:1, compare this with the petrol engined versions with 4.1:1 and 4.3:1

 

[STAGE 2]

So what I'm seeing here is that other than mileage, there isn't any reason to find a diesel truck because it will be less powerful and less reliable.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Pretty much...

I do not think the US saw any diesel 4Runners, or any turbo diesel trucks, so it's probably a 2L and it's not fun to drive. My uncle had one.... I'd hold out of an RE

 

[jayrunner]

Ahh 4runner diesel what a dream.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

I'm 99% sure that the 2L-T was indeed an option in the US trucks. I don't think hardly any of the 4x4 diesel pickups in '84-'85 were normally aspirated.

Diesel
Pros - more torque way down low, much better gas mileage, don't have to pay extortion fees to the smog man anymore

Correct. The difference in torque isn't in the numbers, it's the torque curve that matters. My 2LT-E powered faux-lux crawls better than anything I've ever driven. (note: we have multiple Dodge Power Wagons in addition to the cruisers) The difference in mileage is very impressive. I'm in the 30MPG range day in and day out. I would stake my life on 25MPG in the faux-lux.

Cons - harder to obtain parts, reliability... I think.

If it's a US spec diesel, parts are very obtainable here. Even non-US spec, they are generally possible, but may take some time (so having another vehicle might be important here). I have not had any part that I was not able to source within a week or so, primarily direct from Toyota. Only one or two that I couldn't get through CDan, and those have been available easily through one of the Canadian parts houses (I've used Radd Cruisers a bit and always been happy).

Reliability has been a non-issue for me. Especially the non-EFI motors, they should be extremely reliable. The basic engine design is very strong, and aside from the timing belt, the 2L and 2LT have a very good reputation. The 2LT-E cracks heads, so I'd stay away from that, but even then I still love my faux-lux.

Bottom line: if it's normally aspirated it will be a bit slow, but very efficient and reliable. If a 2L-T, it will be at least as strong as a 22RE, and slightly less efficient than the 2L. You didn't mention where you live, but at the altitudes I am at (5,000 feet+) the 2LT-E has GOBS more power than the 22RE did.

I love diesels. A lot. If the 2LT-E was available in the same showroom as the 22RE, they wouldn't have sold even half of the gas engines.

Dan

 

[toy4xfun]

DanS HJ-45 i will have to disagree with you in that time frame most people did not under stand the concept or how diesels work so they would not have bought them. there are other factors involved but the main point is the average joe had no idea that diesel explodes with compression not a spark.so they were scared of them. inyour area you may be right. the majority in the us would have bought the 22re.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

DanS HJ-45 i will have to disagree with you in that time frame most people did not under stand the concept or how diesels work so they would not have bought them. there are other factors involved but the main point is the average joe had no idea that diesel explodes with compression not a spark.so they were scared of them. inyour area you may be right. the majority in the us would have bought the 22re.

Well, I was talking from a purely visceral standpoint. I agree that in the late 80s and early 90s that consumer diesels would likely not have sold very well thanks to GM and the 350-D.

But if anyone had the ability to test drive the turbo diesel and the 22RE, it would have been a no-brainer, absent the stupid US anti-diesel mentality.

Dan

 

[Chang-kuao-lo]

2LT was available in the US for '85 and '86 in pickups. here's one: Toyota : Hilux:eBay Motors (item 130323977640 end time Aug-16-09 22:30:59 PDT)

I put a 3L (2.8 l) with a turbo off a 2LTE in my '82. It's a fairly easy swap from a 22R. but does require a few mods. Mine was extra easy because it was originally a 1L deiesel truck. For example, the diesel clutch fork is on the opposite side of the gasser, you'll need a bigger rad and some other bibs and bobs.

Anything starting with "2L", i would avoid (no offence DanS, but the 2LT(E) has a pretty sketchy track record). The 3L with turbo would beat the pants off a 22R, gearing notwithstanding. The 3L has a pretty solid track record.

Parts are not too big of a deal, Mustang Connection - 1965 - 1973 Mustang Specialists and Foreign Car Importer stocks 3L parts, and can get stuff to you pretty quick. 4 Wheel Auto Wholesale -LANDCRUISER PARTS is familiar with L series engines as well. Wiring is pretty straightforward, glow-plugs, fuel-cut solenoid, and the ususal alt. and sensors.

to put a 3L and turbo into your truck, i would set aside ~$5,000 for a budget.
3L engine ~$3,000
used 2LTE turbo and manifold, etc. ~$500
diesel bellhousing ~$200
custom rad ~$400
new exhaust (it's on the opposite side of the gasser) ~$400
EGT guage (you'll be needing this) ~$200
Fuel filter/water seperator, hoses, and various sundries to make up the balance.

got my 3L from this outfit:
JDM Used Toyota 3L Diesel Engine for Pickup, 4 Runner:eBay Motors (item 270442565826 end time Aug-20-09 16:51:43 PDT)

dieselHead.net - inventory has a "L" engine to "R" transmission bellhousing. or just buy the mightymax diesel he's got listed for $4,000. aka Dodge Ram50 diesel, i used to own one, great little truck.

or just plop a new 22R in for like, $2,000? For myself, it would be worth the extra $3,000.

edit: I misunderstood, i thought you were looking to to a swap for a 22R.
if it is a 2L (N/A) i'd pass. Total slug. 2LT, in really good shape, i wouldn't pay more than $4,000. Parts are not a big deal in the US.

 

[toy4xfun]

Well, I was talking from a purely visceral standpoint. I agree that in the late 80s and early 90s that consumer diesels would likely not have sold very well thanks to GM and the 350-D.

But if anyone had the ability to test drive the turbo diesel and the 22RE, it would have been a no-brainer, absent the stupid US anti-diesel mentality.

Dan

not trying to step on any toes i just know the mentality. i my self do not know enough to swap out a diesel in my truck. but if i did i would look at swapping in a Cummings.

 

[Pluton]

Ahh 4runner diesel what a dream.

You can get 4R Diesels(3Liter) currently from the dealer...... in Panama.

 

[fortysixandtwo]

Go with a 22RE. you will thank yourself.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Anything starting with "2L", i would avoid (no offence DanS, but the 2LT(E) has a pretty sketchy track record). The 3L with turbo would beat the pants off a

I would certainly not buy anything with a 2LT-E. I've been lucky with mine (so far), and I love everything about it except for the head-cracking issue--which is precisely why I wouldn't buy another.

If you bought a factory diesel pickup, drive it until the engine has an issue, then do the 3L/turbo swap. Would be really easy and you'd end up with a 3L-T (like Chang's).

Go with a 22RE. you will thank yourself.

Swap a factory diesel truck to a 22RE? That's silly. I loved my 22RE. But the diesel (remember I've got the head-crack-o-matic diesel) is heads and tails better. In every single way. Really.

If you aren't totally in love with the diesels, I'd buy the truck if the truck itself was clean. If it otherwise had issues, I'd pass. Same goes for a gas powered truck. It's easy to fix an engine. Having a clean starting point for the truck is far more important, IMHO.

Dan

 

[Bogo]

not trying to step on any toes i just know the mentality. i my self do not know enough to swap out a diesel in my truck. but if i did i would look at swapping in a Cummings.

Good luck finding a Cummings you want in there that will fit. They aren't small. Actually they have a delivery truck line that may work.

The one I'd look at is Mercedes inline 5 cylinder that they use to put into the Mercedes and Dodge Sprinter vans. That is a strong engine with a very very good service record. It was also used in a number of other vehicles.