Megasquirt in a 40

[Trollhole]

Joey this thread is for you.

Let's get this started.

Anyone with some experience post up. Maybe this is a viable solution.

Good writeup.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/127532-fuel-injection-system.html

 

[Fast Eddy]

Maybe this is a viable solution.

Surely it is. I'd be happy to lend 25 years of embedded programming experience as necessary. I'm pretty sure CA won't let me put one on my current rig, however. The 2nd link below is a MegaSquirt forum site.

MegaSquirt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MegaSquirt® EFI by Bowling and Grippo
* *MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling & Grippo * *
MegaSquirt® FAQ Main Page
DIYAutoTune.com Megasquirt Kits / Assembled Engine Management Systems, Wideband o2 Sensor Systems and tuning products

 

[Mace]

WHy wouldn't cali let you put on on a rig?

How the hell would they know what computer you were running?

 

[Fast Eddy]

WHy wouldn't cali let you put on on a rig?

How the hell would they know what computer you were running?

Hmm. I was assuming you had to have the stock carb, but maybe you only need connections for the egr and various vacuums. You surely need the stock air cleaner for the heat riser requirement.

 

[zuluzeugma]

Currently looking for FJ60 to squirt. The school I graduated from used Megasquirt for the CBR600 engine on our FSAE Car last year. I've been convinced ever since this is the way to go. In the end, we wound up using performance electroincs for competition because we couldn't get all the bugs worked out, but now that V3 is out, its on...

 

[Mace]

Hmm. I was assuming you had to have the stock carb, but maybe you only need connections for the egr and various vacuums. You surely need the stock air cleaner for the heat riser requirement.

Ahhh now I see what you mean. I was assuming that you had a FI truck already (V8). Bad assumption on my part..

The other thread spoke of Jday's conversion. He has all of the vac lines there but they are not hooked up. It is possible that he might get nailed one day for emissions equipment even here in Vegas. Donno.
That is actually why I left the MS kit on a 2F behind and just put a 5.0 V8 in my 60..

I could not legally get all of the emissions crap required on my rig..

In Cali, a earlier 40 should not have any problems..

 

[zuluzeugma]

In the megasquit forum there is a guy who squirted a 1F with port injection. Made his own fuel rail, etc. Is that dude on MUD? He gives cut sheets on exact dimensions for the rail and other parts.

 

[Fast Eddy]

In the megasquit forum there is a guy who squirted a 1F with port injection. Made his own fuel rail, etc. Is that dude on MUD?

From the tech links page on EFI: https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/70503-2f-fuel-injection-links.html

There's a link to a guy named "Shane": http://www.oatsoda.com/fuel_injection/
and a pirate post: 2F fuel injection - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

 

[zuluzeugma]

Yep, thats the one!

 

[malcb]

I am in the middle of a MS conversion with port injection and ignition control by the MS

Currently at the following stage;

Lots of read done - some playing with the MS
MS V3 (Not MS2) but MS Extra code, all assembled and tested.

Lots of injectos to play with, three sets of 6, all high impedance and around 180cc to 240cc (190cc is something like 19lbs/hour?)

Injector rail and bosses to weld on to stock manifold made up

BMW 520 throttle body, coolant and intake temp sensors.

Knock sensor, don't know if I will use it but want to see if it registers anything of use

Changed the plans on the trigger inputs, was going to mount a 36-1 trigger wheel on the harmonic
balancer and then thought I might rehash the optical input on the aftermarket electronic dizzy, need to add a second trigger to the MS unit for that.

Wideband O2 with Exhaust gas probe


Need to sort;

Fuel pump and fuel regulator, final fuel system will probably run a surge tank but for the moment its just pickup from the tank.

Tig the bosses onto the manifold and pipe up the fuel system.

Wire up the electrics

Also be useful to have a map to start tuning from.


Future plans are a supercharger, already got an Eaton M112 from a Jaguar XKR and a huge (might be too big) intercooler.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

I am in the middle of a MS conversion with port injection and ignition control by the MS

Changed the plans on the trigger inputs, was going to mount a 36-1 trigger wheel on the harmonic
balancer and then thought I might rehash the optical input on the aftermarket electronic dizzy, need to add a second trigger to the MS unit for that.

Need to sort;

Fuel pump and fuel regulator, final fuel system will probably run a surge tank but for the moment its just pickup

Dizzy is easy just use the 3FE's it has both the required outputs you needs and bolts right in.

IH8MUD.com Forum - View Single Post - 2F + 3F-E = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40

Fuel set up and intercooler see the rest of my thread, it maybe of interest. THE MULE

 

[Mr. Toad]

I did a fuel-only MS v2.2 on a 2F in '02. Ended up adding the flyback board so I wouldn't fry the low impedance injectors (this is standard on v3.0). Brought the tach signal ground out separately. Used a GM 4.3 Throttle Body with 4+ adapter from Man-A-Fre. Simple, and it worked nicely.

I'll check to see if I still have my VE tables somewhere. I datalogged, but as I recall the VE table values I got weren't very different from what Megatune initially generated, save for 1) some manually-revised, rich anti-stall values just below idle RPMs and 2) forced lean values for my cruising RPMs (helped with mileage, but not a lot).

I cannot understand why people would want to use the entire GM system on the 2F when MS is out there, and it's even better now than when I did it . . .

 

[malcb]

Dizzy is easy just use the 3FE's it has both the required outputs you needs and bolts right in.

IH8MUD.com Forum - View Single Post - 2F + 3F-E = 2F-ETI Into My FJ40

Fuel set up and intercooler see the rest of my thread, it maybe of interest. THE MULE

Not many 3FE around in the UK, otherwise I would have been going with the 3FE manifolds, dizzy and possiably head. Would still like to get hold of some 3FE parts and will think about importing in the future. I had assumed the dizzy was similar to the Toyota cars of the era, nice to have that confirmed.


Supposedly we only have one FJ40 registered and on the road in the UK - don't know how many FJ45's - they were never sold into the UK by Toyota, just Eire, few other European countries and grey imports to the UK.

If a troopie get shipped over to the UK and I can get it stuffed with some 3FE parts in it would make my day!

 

[randle]

i'm looking into controlling a tbi on my vortec 350 block with megasquirt. haven't yet really started research though. not really sure if it would pay off over stock computer.

 

[malcb]

My thinking is it will only pay off if the engine is not stock (ie cams, turbo eetc) or you want some other features like a rev limiter you can adjust or fancy fan control, data logging etc.

I suppose it might be possiable to eek a tenth of a mile better fuel economy or a couple HP within the operating range but factory units/maps are usally quite safe and robust.

On the other hand if you want to learn something about EFI, Megasquirt is a good tool, particularly if you already have EFI, worst case you can plug to old box back in and your back to factory.

 

[randle]

yeah, i would like to learn to data log and tune.... megasquirt should help with my other fuel injected projects also. after all, knowledge is power!!!!!!!
so as simple as it may be, i think i'll try megasquirting a tbi system. and like you said, i'll probably set up the factory ecu as a backup. i really have no idea yet how i'll do it, time to start reading and thinking.

could i copy the stock fuel and ignition map onto my laptop and then transfer into megasquirt/ tune for a base map? i suppose i could find the map somewhere instead of having to mess around.

 

[joeyg1973]

Knock sensor, don't know if I will use it but want to see if it registers anything of use

Changed the plans on the trigger inputs, was going to mount a 36-1 trigger wheel on the harmonic
balancer and then thought I might rehash the optical input on the aftermarket electronic dizzy, need to add a second trigger to the MS unit for that.

Future plans are a supercharger, already got an Eaton M112 from a Jaguar XKR and a huge (might be too big) intercooler.

I am getting ready to setup an MS2 v3.0 on my rebuilt 2f with a 4.3 tbi.

I am going to try using the knock sensor adapter from Engine knock detection and indication for all vehicles on my MS2 because it is cheap, I can move the knock sensor around to find the best spot, and it supplies a 5v signal so I don't need to do any work on the proto section of the MS board. I would like to know what results you find with your knock sensor.

How did you plan or planned on mounting a 36-1 trigger wheel to the flywheel? I am going to use a GM 7-pin HEI Distributor for now. I will probably go to the EDIS-6 at some point in the future but I can't figure out a way to mount the trigger 36-1 trigger wheel to the balancer in a way that doesn't look like a complete hack and slash job. I have been using the following as a trigger wheel reference guide which you might find useful. Trigger Wheels

Mac, your use of the 3fe dist is something I hadn't even considered. That would kill 2 birds with one stone. I have never seen one of the 3fe dist up close, but I am guessing that it wouldn't be too hard to modify it to eliminate the rotor and cap with a metal plate screwed in place. This would act both as a dist plug to drive the oil pump and a trigger to drive the Ford EDIS if it will work with something other than a 36-1. Might be the way to go for distributorless ignition. Mac do you have any pictures of the 3fe dist both external and internal?


I am also thinking about putting in a supercharger. We should keep in touch in this regard. I am looking at one of the small M62 Eaton ones that went into a Mercedes SLK that had an electric clutch. Being able to turn it on and off Mad Max style I am hoping will save on gas that is way too expensive. The knock sensor seems to be critical when force feeding an engine from the research I have done.

 

[matt.mcinnes]

3FE dizzy and a 2F dizzy look quite different but fit just the same although you need the engine side panel from a later 2F that has the indentation in it.

3FE inners. The bottom gear has 24 teeth the top is TDC for 1 and 6

I had one of the top triggers machined off to suit the Wolf V500 as it only requires one trigger for TDC on No1

If your runing wasted spark with coil packs just run the dizzy without a rota button.

 

[malcb]

3FE dizzy and a 2F dizzy look quite different but fit just the same although you need the engine side panel from a later 2F that has the indentation in it.I had one of the top triggers machined off to suit the Wolf V500 as it only requires one trigger for TDC on No1

If your runing wasted spark with coil packs just run the dizzy without a rota button.

Matt
Thanks for the pictures - that is very interesting. The MS is easily altered for a second input - do you know what type of output the 3FE produces, it looks like and VR but conditioned so it's a square output rather than an alternating AC wave - if thats the case it's even better because the MS uses quite a lot of circuitry to condition the optput and is that can be ommited it's much cleaner. I am investigating the Wolf system, looks reasonable in price and has all the functions IO etc you could need.

 

[malcb]

I am getting ready to setup an MS2 v3.0 on my rebuilt 2f with a 4.3 tbi.

Joey,

Good to see you posting on the thread - it is for you!

I considered welding the 36-1 wheel - few quick tacks and some short runs, didn't really fancy drilling and bolting or welding. Then I started thinking about the supercharger and decided I would drill out the rivets that hold the V pulley on, get a flat belt drive pulley (not toothed) machined up, either repace the water pump pulley or fit an electric water pump (one of my more wacko ideas) and replace the alternator with a Jag one and fit a belt tensioner. The 36-1 would mount on the flat belt pulley.

For reference I also thought about "counting" the flyweel teeth and installing another trigger on the flywheel for TDC (don't forget that might be just a hole drilled next to the teeth) Pickups for this would be a bit vinerable as they would have to mount quite low down, I thing the firewall would make mounting higher on the bellhousing difficult?

I think a knock sensor makes good sense - difficulty is getting a unit that is tuned to the frequecy of noise emitted when the cylinder "rings", that is dependant on bore diameter and should serve to elimanate lots of the engine noise. Using a spectrum analyiser is what is needed and my searching on the net suggestes something like daqarta.com might work - might even be used to generate a simulated knock saves hitting the engine with a spanner!