pistonpete
SILVER Star
Thanks, it's 474 copper poly in Omni ( PPG )
Making the 60 more gooder
- Thread starter SHIfTHEAD
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kelly saad
Supporting Vendor
I just sprayed that color. I used Omni B/C and had to shoot 7 coats of base to get coverage because it was so transparent. At 5 coats it looked like it was covering but I added two more to be safe. Limco, by BASF covers much better but I already had Omni. They gave me an extra gallon for my trouble, so I actually shot 4 sprayable gallons of base!! I was not happy, but it turned out really nice. All the transparent layers give it so much depth. Also, in the sun it looks like a pearl, pretty interesting.
- Thread starter
- #43
Well I'm definitely going to stick with the factory color! I was thinking about getting my paint from Napa which I understand is rebadged Sherwin Williams. Not sure which SW it is but I used their Ultra 7000 on my last project and it is awesome stuff. Ever have experience with Napa paints?
- Thread starter
- #44
Well today is a 1 step forward 2 steps back kinda day. I realized I needed to get the roof rack off and once off was greeted with some lovely stretched holes created by the big ass sheet metal screws holding on the roof.
So this requires the removal of some of the headliner. I guess I'm lucky it's not the factory liner as the glue was pretty easy to soften with a heat gun. Once in there I pushed back all of that Japanese drier lint they stuffed in my roof and went to work closing up the holes. Note to self: wet the drier lint BEFORE welding the hole, s***forbrains. Thankfully I smelled the smouldering and got a wet rag into there lickety split. Moving on, I wetted the underside of the roof then welded the hole close and ground them smooth. Used a hammer and dolly to get them back into shape. One step forward.
I've been curious, so I looked under the bottom driver's side corner of the windshield gasket. I saw exactly what I hoped I wouldn't see, FFO. F#©<ing Ferrous Oxide. Awesome, now the windshield has to come out. Well, I had been looking at the scratch on the passenger side, but I figured I could live with it. It not in my line of sight afterall, so I figured Screw It. But now I gotta pull the friggin thing, dammit. One step backwards.
Luckily it's had a windshield in the fairly recent past as the gasket is nice and supple. It get the top corner walking out pretty easy and using light pressure. It was at this time I heard that noise. Sounds like a quick tap on the windshield and I watched the crack race across right in front of my face. Well uckfay emay. I guess that scratch isn't going to be a problem after all. Hopefully the 62 windshield is good or this just got a bit more expensiverer. Big step backwards.
Now for the rust, I've got a few spots to deal with under the gasket. Also have a skinny line of rust where a windshield guy ran his knife along the bottom cutting off a gasket. A couple places the rust has popped through, not much, but still.
Where it hasn't popped through, would you guys cut it out or rust convert it and cover it in epoxy primer and paint? I think I know the answer already, but thought I'd ask anyway. Laterz.
So this requires the removal of some of the headliner. I guess I'm lucky it's not the factory liner as the glue was pretty easy to soften with a heat gun. Once in there I pushed back all of that Japanese drier lint they stuffed in my roof and went to work closing up the holes. Note to self: wet the drier lint BEFORE welding the hole, s***forbrains. Thankfully I smelled the smouldering and got a wet rag into there lickety split. Moving on, I wetted the underside of the roof then welded the hole close and ground them smooth. Used a hammer and dolly to get them back into shape. One step forward.
I've been curious, so I looked under the bottom driver's side corner of the windshield gasket. I saw exactly what I hoped I wouldn't see, FFO. F#©<ing Ferrous Oxide. Awesome, now the windshield has to come out. Well, I had been looking at the scratch on the passenger side, but I figured I could live with it. It not in my line of sight afterall, so I figured Screw It. But now I gotta pull the friggin thing, dammit. One step backwards.
Luckily it's had a windshield in the fairly recent past as the gasket is nice and supple. It get the top corner walking out pretty easy and using light pressure. It was at this time I heard that noise. Sounds like a quick tap on the windshield and I watched the crack race across right in front of my face. Well uckfay emay. I guess that scratch isn't going to be a problem after all. Hopefully the 62 windshield is good or this just got a bit more expensiverer. Big step backwards.
Now for the rust, I've got a few spots to deal with under the gasket. Also have a skinny line of rust where a windshield guy ran his knife along the bottom cutting off a gasket. A couple places the rust has popped through, not much, but still.
Where it hasn't popped through, would you guys cut it out or rust convert it and cover it in epoxy primer and paint? I think I know the answer already, but thought I'd ask anyway. Laterz.
- Thread starter
- #45
Wasn't super motivated today. Working till 5 then 40 minute drive to the shop sucks. But got a little done disassembling the doors, removing shiny bits and inside door cards. I have a bad habit of going full bore and had to have a conversation with myself. "Self, this isn't a Pebble Beach restoration. You don't have to disassemble it down to the nuts and bolts, FFS.". So I stopped complete disassembly of the doors, leaving in the glass and some rubbers. I plan on doing a lot of masking. And since I'm going to stick with stock color I should be good.
I did get around to spending a few minutes with the Durablock on the hood to see how bad it really was. 37 year old matte paint hides a bit. I could see a few hail dings so figured there were a few more hiding. It did not disappoint.
I'll skim these and get them real close, then
I did get around to spending a few minutes with the Durablock on the hood to see how bad it really was. 37 year old matte paint hides a bit. I could see a few hail dings so figured there were a few more hiding. It did not disappoint.
I'll skim these and get them real close, then
NeverGiveUpYota
Dare me.
Those I would think were just the screws for the stock luggage rack.
- Thread starter
- #47
Well damn, seems non-Toyota like to just drill some holes and use some big ass sheet metal screws. But it was the wild and crazy 80s!
georgebj60
SILVER Star
The stock roof rack on my HJ60 had a backing plate with welded nuts to hold on the rack. Toyota does it properly, even if it does leak and cause a ton of rust 30 yrs later...
- Thread starter
- #49
Shlt fire, that looks gnarly. Having done a roof in that area I remember how much fun that wasn't. But yeah, I wonder if the stock rack accessory would have come with backing plates and someone was like "No thanks, I'm not pulling the headliner. Sheet metal screws will do just fine."
Good luck on your roof repairs dude!
NeverGiveUpYota
Dare me.
I should have added ‘my guess.’ I really have very little background so I was talking out of my ass...
- Thread starter
- #51
Talking out my ass is all I know, so you're in good company.
- Thread starter
- #52
Lots of work being done, but only some of it is visible. I spent 2 days (~6 hrs) totally cleaning out all the cracking body sealer from the rain gutters. In a couple spots I could see the rusty red tell tale sign of doom lurking just over the horizon. Once they were totally cleaned out I hit the entire gutter with rust convertor just to be sure if there was any rust thinking of making a home down in the seams it met a dismal fiery end drenched in phosphoric acid and other things contained within the Rust Kutter bottle. I also welded in a small patch in the windshield where the rust had just made a pinhole and fixed the other two spots that would be come a problem in the future.
The real work that you can see is the "new" sheet metal that I got from @shmukster, who met local fellow Mudster @JohnVee when John was up in VA this past weekend. John was kind enough to transport the fender and valence back for me and refused (!) any pesos for his trouble. What a guy! I also learned how many more addicts there are in the area and joined ONSC club after learning that it existed. Soon I will be around other people, in person, who think all of this stuff I'm doing is perfectly normal.
The "new" fender came off a rig that was so rusty that Gary (shmuckster) said that while he was cutting the roof, the truck folded under him. That's how bad the frame was, the body was all that was keeping the truck upright. That can't be good. However the fender and valence look really good. Not completely rust free like what came off Randall, they only had surface rust save for two mounting tabs in the middle of the fender wheel well. I cut off the tabs from the crunched fender and fixed up my new fender and then hit all the seams with Rust Kutter for good measure.
Once the rust convertor had cured I hit it with some paint and once dried started bolting it all back up. Everything lined up pretty good and after about 30 minutes had the fender back on the truck. Well SHIfT! Turns out I still had a little more straightening to do. Note to self; don't put every f**king bolt on the fender till you check alignment on all the edges. The forwardmost bolts by the headlight bucket were still a good 1/2 inch from their mounting holes. I thought I'd pulled the core support back enough, but apparently not. Thank god for the little B&D impact driver I bought, the fender was off again 10 mins later. A good bit of persuasion and the core support was back where it needed to be. Got the fender bolted up and the valence fit like a dream. Damn, it's starting to come together!
While I was waiting for all the convertor and paint to cure I got to work at the very back addressing the newly found Bondo on the liftgate. Looks like something pushed the liftgate and bent it at some point. The repair looks OK, but apparently they drilled a few holes to pull the dent out, and then once close enough smeared Bondo over it and sanded it back into shape. They actually did a pretty good job but for some reason just left it in grey primer, which is not waterproof. Not sure why people do this, like if you want it grey then spend another $3.99 and grab the can of grey rattle can paint next to the grey primer.
Anyway, so while I was back there I pulled the carpet back and removed the weather stripping and found a little rust. You kinda expect it there, TBH. I couldn't tell if the surface rust was running up under the factory sound deadening, but most of the deadener was pulling away from the deck. So to be sure I popped about 8 inches of it back all across the rear. There was some surface rust that had climbed up under the deadener, but by and large it was clear. The weather
stripping lip was eat up in a couple spots so I went to work on that. And that damn body sealer, aka Rust Ensurer, had let a little get down in to the seam of the lip. So I popped off all the rust ensurer to see if it was everywhere. It was only in a couple spots and I was able to get the convertor down into the seam. I cut off the bad metal and prepped the area for new weather stipping tab in those areas.
So tomorrow is welding in new weather stripping tab and finishing up the remaining 4 holes in the roof from the roof rack. And (f'ing fingers crossed) I am done with rust and welding on this project!
The real work that you can see is the "new" sheet metal that I got from @shmukster, who met local fellow Mudster @JohnVee when John was up in VA this past weekend. John was kind enough to transport the fender and valence back for me and refused (!) any pesos for his trouble. What a guy! I also learned how many more addicts there are in the area and joined ONSC club after learning that it existed. Soon I will be around other people, in person, who think all of this stuff I'm doing is perfectly normal.
The "new" fender came off a rig that was so rusty that Gary (shmuckster) said that while he was cutting the roof, the truck folded under him. That's how bad the frame was, the body was all that was keeping the truck upright. That can't be good. However the fender and valence look really good. Not completely rust free like what came off Randall, they only had surface rust save for two mounting tabs in the middle of the fender wheel well. I cut off the tabs from the crunched fender and fixed up my new fender and then hit all the seams with Rust Kutter for good measure.
Once the rust convertor had cured I hit it with some paint and once dried started bolting it all back up. Everything lined up pretty good and after about 30 minutes had the fender back on the truck. Well SHIfT! Turns out I still had a little more straightening to do. Note to self; don't put every f**king bolt on the fender till you check alignment on all the edges. The forwardmost bolts by the headlight bucket were still a good 1/2 inch from their mounting holes. I thought I'd pulled the core support back enough, but apparently not. Thank god for the little B&D impact driver I bought, the fender was off again 10 mins later. A good bit of persuasion and the core support was back where it needed to be. Got the fender bolted up and the valence fit like a dream. Damn, it's starting to come together!
While I was waiting for all the convertor and paint to cure I got to work at the very back addressing the newly found Bondo on the liftgate. Looks like something pushed the liftgate and bent it at some point. The repair looks OK, but apparently they drilled a few holes to pull the dent out, and then once close enough smeared Bondo over it and sanded it back into shape. They actually did a pretty good job but for some reason just left it in grey primer, which is not waterproof. Not sure why people do this, like if you want it grey then spend another $3.99 and grab the can of grey rattle can paint next to the grey primer.
Anyway, so while I was back there I pulled the carpet back and removed the weather stripping and found a little rust. You kinda expect it there, TBH. I couldn't tell if the surface rust was running up under the factory sound deadening, but most of the deadener was pulling away from the deck. So to be sure I popped about 8 inches of it back all across the rear. There was some surface rust that had climbed up under the deadener, but by and large it was clear. The weather
stripping lip was eat up in a couple spots so I went to work on that. And that damn body sealer, aka Rust Ensurer, had let a little get down in to the seam of the lip. So I popped off all the rust ensurer to see if it was everywhere. It was only in a couple spots and I was able to get the convertor down into the seam. I cut off the bad metal and prepped the area for new weather stipping tab in those areas.
So tomorrow is welding in new weather stripping tab and finishing up the remaining 4 holes in the roof from the roof rack. And (f'ing fingers crossed) I am done with rust and welding on this project!
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- Thread starter
- #53
Got a couple more things done and some things discovered. First, I've discovered why the AC isn't working. Initially I thought maybe the AC Amplifier gizmo was at fault. But as I started looking into the system I pressed in the shrader valve on one of the R12 service connections on the compressor and found it had zero pressure in the system. So I hooked up the vacuum pump and the gauges and pulled a vacuum on the system. It held a vacuum over night so I surmised all was well and fit the new R134a service fittings and pulled another vacuum, put in 18 oz of R134 and viola! the compressor engaged and we started to get cooler air. I didn't have enough to do a full fill so I waited till the next day when I could get some more R134.
Returned the next day started the truck and nada, no joy. The system was totally empty again. Awesome. So I ordered a freon leak detector from Amazon and waited a couple days and started testing. Put in 20 psi of freon and fired up the $27 tester. Within about 5 minutes I had located a leak, hopefully the only leak. It was the high pressure line coming out of the receiver/drier where it connected to the condenser. I tried tightening the fitting, but it was super tight. I went ahead and pulled the fitting apart and found the o-ring was really compressed, but I think it was leaking because of a bit of corrosion between the o-ring and the inside of the fitting. I've ordered an o-ring set and will see if that fixes the issue.
I spent some time on the lift gate to see what's up with that Bondo I found. I took the flap disc and got to work removing it all. It was kinda thick in places but once it was off I could see what I was dealing with. It was pretty bumpy under it all, but the bare metal was clean, so no moisture got under it. But it needed a good bit of work to get it much closer to the original state.
You can see some of the holes they drilled to pull the dent(s) out
I pushed the Bondo out and used the hammer and dolly to smooth our the metal. Then I welded up the holes, smoothed off the welds and covered everything in 2 part epoxy primer. While in there I went ahead and got rid of all the seam sealer and put some rust convertor down in the seam below the glass. There was a little surface rust, but nothing serious, but I did it purely as a preventative measure.
Next I got to work sanding the whole. damn. thing. Found out why the passenger front fender had clear coat on it, it was banged up and worked on a few years back. Had to take half of it down to bare metal, but there wasn't that much filler on it. Otherwise, it's looking pertty good elsewhere. I've found a few spots that need a little massaging, but nothing major. The hood is going to take the most work to get ready for paint.
Returned the next day started the truck and nada, no joy. The system was totally empty again. Awesome. So I ordered a freon leak detector from Amazon and waited a couple days and started testing. Put in 20 psi of freon and fired up the $27 tester. Within about 5 minutes I had located a leak, hopefully the only leak. It was the high pressure line coming out of the receiver/drier where it connected to the condenser. I tried tightening the fitting, but it was super tight. I went ahead and pulled the fitting apart and found the o-ring was really compressed, but I think it was leaking because of a bit of corrosion between the o-ring and the inside of the fitting. I've ordered an o-ring set and will see if that fixes the issue.
I spent some time on the lift gate to see what's up with that Bondo I found. I took the flap disc and got to work removing it all. It was kinda thick in places but once it was off I could see what I was dealing with. It was pretty bumpy under it all, but the bare metal was clean, so no moisture got under it. But it needed a good bit of work to get it much closer to the original state.
You can see some of the holes they drilled to pull the dent(s) out
I pushed the Bondo out and used the hammer and dolly to smooth our the metal. Then I welded up the holes, smoothed off the welds and covered everything in 2 part epoxy primer. While in there I went ahead and got rid of all the seam sealer and put some rust convertor down in the seam below the glass. There was a little surface rust, but nothing serious, but I did it purely as a preventative measure.
Next I got to work sanding the whole. damn. thing. Found out why the passenger front fender had clear coat on it, it was banged up and worked on a few years back. Had to take half of it down to bare metal, but there wasn't that much filler on it. Otherwise, it's looking pertty good elsewhere. I've found a few spots that need a little massaging, but nothing major. The hood is going to take the most work to get ready for paint.
- Thread starter
- #54
Seven months, that should be a long enough rest...time to get back to work. Actually, I have a new gig at my job that keeps me insanely busy and I've found I need something to focus on that isn't at all computer-related. Randy fits the bill.
So I have moved on to the part of these projects that I really do not like. It's slow, it's tedious, but it's so critically important to get it right. Being a bit OCD about some things means I will spend WAY too long on little stuff that most people might ignore. But I know that if I don't take that extra hour or two here and there, I will see it every time I walk up to the finished product. I'm going to have little things that will still be there that I just missed, but if I see a ripple in the paint because I was too lazy to spend a few more hours block sanding then that's going to annoy the hell out of me forever.
So I'm working on the hood first. It's big, it's flat and it's pretty easy to start with to get back into the swing of using body filler. I actually like the smell of this stuff, but I always forget a few things. First, use less hardener than you think. This is especially true when it's hot as hell. The first two batches I made were setting up in like 3 minutes. Second, don't try to do this with 320. 80 grit is your friend. And if you've got the cheese grater tool, use that first. Third, sand it down right after it's set up. It won't be crazy hard yet, so it will cut down pretty easily.
You can see in the pics below I'm working through all the hail dings, but I've also got some big low areas. I suspect this is caused by two factors; 1) The adhesive between the hood subframe and hood skin is gone. This happens with age and will cause you major grief if you don't resolve it. I have some 3M NHT arriving today, hopefully. This adhesive is made for this application, and while it's $50 for 200ml, just pay the money. Amortized over 40 years, it's cheap. Some people use urethane window adhesive, but I didn't want to have to screw with this again or see waves in the hood because I wanted to save a few bucks. 2) because the adhesive had disintegrated with age when the hood was whacked in the front driver's corner, that stress tweaked the hood and the skin developed these shallow spots. Not a huge deal, just means I will have to skim larger areas and block them to smooth that section out. The depression is like .5 deep, but when you get shiny paint on it, it will be very easy to see with the naked eye.
Anyway, once I'm done with the hood which should be this week I'll be moving on to the rest of the body. Every panel is going to need a good bit of skim to smooth them out. This truck has been well-loved and well used over its life, and life has left it with a few bruises.
Here you can see the gap between the hood skin and frame. The 3M NHT is good to fill up to a 1" gap. The idea is to simply bridge the gap between the frame and skin with the NHT adhesive, ad this used to be filled with a foam adhesive from the factory years ago.
And a couple of shots of the progress of the hail damage. You would be surprised at how much time it takes to fill and sand a single ding. Oh, and I remembered another thing about using the body filler; use less than you think you need. You can always mix up more, but if you slap a ton on there you will be sanding for a week to get it all down to the metal again.
So I have moved on to the part of these projects that I really do not like. It's slow, it's tedious, but it's so critically important to get it right. Being a bit OCD about some things means I will spend WAY too long on little stuff that most people might ignore. But I know that if I don't take that extra hour or two here and there, I will see it every time I walk up to the finished product. I'm going to have little things that will still be there that I just missed, but if I see a ripple in the paint because I was too lazy to spend a few more hours block sanding then that's going to annoy the hell out of me forever.
So I'm working on the hood first. It's big, it's flat and it's pretty easy to start with to get back into the swing of using body filler. I actually like the smell of this stuff, but I always forget a few things. First, use less hardener than you think. This is especially true when it's hot as hell. The first two batches I made were setting up in like 3 minutes. Second, don't try to do this with 320. 80 grit is your friend. And if you've got the cheese grater tool, use that first. Third, sand it down right after it's set up. It won't be crazy hard yet, so it will cut down pretty easily.
You can see in the pics below I'm working through all the hail dings, but I've also got some big low areas. I suspect this is caused by two factors; 1) The adhesive between the hood subframe and hood skin is gone. This happens with age and will cause you major grief if you don't resolve it. I have some 3M NHT arriving today, hopefully. This adhesive is made for this application, and while it's $50 for 200ml, just pay the money. Amortized over 40 years, it's cheap. Some people use urethane window adhesive, but I didn't want to have to screw with this again or see waves in the hood because I wanted to save a few bucks. 2) because the adhesive had disintegrated with age when the hood was whacked in the front driver's corner, that stress tweaked the hood and the skin developed these shallow spots. Not a huge deal, just means I will have to skim larger areas and block them to smooth that section out. The depression is like .5 deep, but when you get shiny paint on it, it will be very easy to see with the naked eye.
Anyway, once I'm done with the hood which should be this week I'll be moving on to the rest of the body. Every panel is going to need a good bit of skim to smooth them out. This truck has been well-loved and well used over its life, and life has left it with a few bruises.
Here you can see the gap between the hood skin and frame. The 3M NHT is good to fill up to a 1" gap. The idea is to simply bridge the gap between the frame and skin with the NHT adhesive, ad this used to be filled with a foam adhesive from the factory years ago.
And a couple of shots of the progress of the hail damage. You would be surprised at how much time it takes to fill and sand a single ding. Oh, and I remembered another thing about using the body filler; use less than you think you need. You can always mix up more, but if you slap a ton on there you will be sanding for a week to get it all down to the metal again.
Old Nick
GOLD Star
Man, this is an excellent write up. Thank you for all of the details and pics. I’m getting very close to wrapping up all of the work that I put into my ‘62. Totally worth the time and effort.
Hope that the new gig at work leaves you with enough time to get her painted soon.
take it easy
Hope that the new gig at work leaves you with enough time to get her painted soon.
take it easy
- Thread starter
- #56
So not a ton to report, that's kind of the downside to this stage of the project unless you outsource it and pay the $$$$. I'm still waiting on the 3M NHT to arrive so I can shore up the hood skin to the hood frame. Like seriously, NOTHING annoys me more these days than estimated shipping that is totally and completely F'ing wrong. Now the ETA is Monday. Guess who they shipped with? USPS, of course. Honestly, this is why I will always check the Prime Only box on Amazon. That's sometimes wrong too, but very infrequently and you get ACTUAL tracking instead of "It Left. It's somewhere. It might be there tomorrow or next week, or never." Fck USPS. <rant over>
Since I can't do much on the hood I am moving around the rest of the body and fixing dings here and there. And since 7 months had passed I'd forgotten about one little area that needed some attention. If you will recall the rear lid had been whacked and someone did a decent job of straightening it out, skim coating it, and then spraying primer all over it. I removed that since I had no idea what they actually used for filler and they didn't use a moisture barrier topcoat, so it could have had high moisture content if they used something like Bondo instead of a good one like Evercoat. Anyway, when it got whacked the stress pushed in the rear corner just above the driver-side rear tail light. The crease was about 1/2" deep and ran up almost 2 inches. The main problem was getting in behind it to push it back out. I could get my hand back in there through the interior opening, but it was curved so no way to get something like a wooden dowel behind it and bang it out. I could rig something up like a J hook and pull on it but then I remembered something I was given about 10 years prior. It's called an Autoshot stud welder. I tried it once on another project but that was a very long time ago and I really didn't know what I was doing at the time. Anyway, I dug the box out blew off the dust of dead bugs, and opened it up. I had 3 1/2 boxes of studs in there the gun and the slide hammer.
First I used the regular-sized studs with moderate success. The basic process is to get a flap disc or something to remove all the paint from the area, load a stud into the end of the gun and then press the stud against the body where you want to attach it for pulling. It's spring-loaded so the stud will touch first and then you keep pressing until the grounding ring around the tip is also touching. Then you pull the trigger for about 1 second. You will see it glowing in there and a little smoke will come out. Be careful and don't hold the trigger for too long, a second is all you need, much longer and you could melt a hole through the body at that point. Let off the trigger wait another second for it to cool and then pull the gun away. You are left with a stud sticking out from that point. Get the slide hammer and put it over the stud, roll the little locking wheel onto the stud, and then pull tension on the stud. Now while keeping tension slide the hammer forward and then start whacking away. Don't slide the hammer too far forward and bump the back of the stud lock as that will cause it to release the stud. Just keep pulling until either the stud breaks in half, which they do frequently, or you've pulled it as far as you want. Also, don't go bananas here, you don't want to tear the sheet metal. Like most all bodywork it's a lot of watching what the metal is willing to do and coaxing it along. In the end, I got the dent 95% out and close enough that a little skim coat is all it needs to look 100%.
In that picture you can see where the paint is still shiny above all the pulls, that's because the crease ran up that far and the sander couldn't touch the paint there. As I pulled it out all the surrounding areas came back in alignment. This is the kind of stuff I enjoy doing, y'all can have the block sanding.
BTW, to remove the stud from the body, the best way I found was to get a small pair of Vise-Grips. Now come at the stud from a 90-degree angle, parallel with the body, grab the head of the stud with the Vise-Grips. Then slowly rock the head up and down, move the Vise Grips an inch or two up and down. You will feel the stud start to fatigue and eventually it will break away from the sheet metal. Don't fight this part! You don't want to try and just rip it away you can tear the sheet metal or seriously distort it. If you do it this way with the pliers you are left with just a little rough spot where the head was attached and the sheet metal isn't damaged.
Another part that needed to be addressed was the rain gutters. As we know these are what get the roof rot going and are deadly to these trucks. The factory filler has long since turned rock hard and cracked, letting water into the panel welds below. Then it traps the water in there and cancer starts. Once it's in there good it runs the whole length of the seam and eventually, you have what I faced on the FJ62 project. A total F'ing nightmare to fix. Luckily this truck had no real rust up there. I popped off all the old sealer many months ago and hit it with a rust converter back then, just to be sure. Then today I used the 3M self-leveling seam sealer to fill the channels all the way around. If you are going to do this you will need two of them, the special gun and a fair bit of patience. Here are my lessons learned; when you are filling the channels fill the outside of the gutter first. I just ran it along the gutter expecting it to flow completely into the channel. It will flow, some, but it's not like honey, it's more like warm peanut butter. So get the nozzle back up under that lip and run it there first. I had to go back and run the nozzle along the underside of the rain gutter lip to ensure coverage. This is time-sensitive, you've got about 10 minutes after it comes out of the nozzle before it starts to set up. So ensure cover WHILE you are in the area. Next, as you are pumping along and need to move to another area you will need to relieve pressure on the gun so the epoxy stops flowing out. Otherwise, you will have the stuff dribbling out while you are trying to move about, or it will just keep filling an area and you'll have too much in a particular spot. For the front channels next to the A-pillar, you are going to have to help it a little. The gap is too narrow to get the tip all the way down in there. I filled it a bit heavy at the top and let it flow down and then slowly went down the front with the gun perpendicular to the A-pillar. I was putting more in there than was actually needed, but I needed it to flow to the bottom of the channel, and I used a razor knife to run along the channel to hopefully allow any air pockets to escape. I used the knife because it was there, anything very slim should do the job. Then let it run down, it's going to dribble down into the door hinge area, but you can clean it off later. Once you get all this done let it just sit, and it will flow out nicely and will be set up in about 30 mins. It never gets really hard and is very much attached to the truck now. It's very good stuff and I would recommend it highly. Another one of those things where you just pay the money.
You can see the bare metal through the sealer. This is about 5 mins after application and it's flowed out nicely. This stuff should be good for the life of the truck.
So plan going forward, keep smoothing out the dings. I need to spend a fair bit of time over the rear wheel arches that were patched. I will have to get in there with a sander to find all my high spots and use the hammer to bring them down. It's not a factory patch so it's going to need a bit of massaging (since I'm a total amateur) to get it close enough to skim. I don't want to do what so many do, use an a$$ load of filler. I want to literally just skim it like 1mm or so of filler to make it pretty. More than that and I think you compromise the integrity of the finish that goes on top since the filler will still be curing and off-gassing for a long time. As it does it will shrink and you can end up cracking in the finish. At least that's what the old body guy told me who taught me a bunch of stuff, and I've seen it. That could be from the old Bondo they used, but I still think it's good practice to get it as close as possible. No skim is the goal, but I'm not sure I'll ever be that good.
Since I can't do much on the hood I am moving around the rest of the body and fixing dings here and there. And since 7 months had passed I'd forgotten about one little area that needed some attention. If you will recall the rear lid had been whacked and someone did a decent job of straightening it out, skim coating it, and then spraying primer all over it. I removed that since I had no idea what they actually used for filler and they didn't use a moisture barrier topcoat, so it could have had high moisture content if they used something like Bondo instead of a good one like Evercoat. Anyway, when it got whacked the stress pushed in the rear corner just above the driver-side rear tail light. The crease was about 1/2" deep and ran up almost 2 inches. The main problem was getting in behind it to push it back out. I could get my hand back in there through the interior opening, but it was curved so no way to get something like a wooden dowel behind it and bang it out. I could rig something up like a J hook and pull on it but then I remembered something I was given about 10 years prior. It's called an Autoshot stud welder. I tried it once on another project but that was a very long time ago and I really didn't know what I was doing at the time. Anyway, I dug the box out blew off the dust of dead bugs, and opened it up. I had 3 1/2 boxes of studs in there the gun and the slide hammer.
First I used the regular-sized studs with moderate success. The basic process is to get a flap disc or something to remove all the paint from the area, load a stud into the end of the gun and then press the stud against the body where you want to attach it for pulling. It's spring-loaded so the stud will touch first and then you keep pressing until the grounding ring around the tip is also touching. Then you pull the trigger for about 1 second. You will see it glowing in there and a little smoke will come out. Be careful and don't hold the trigger for too long, a second is all you need, much longer and you could melt a hole through the body at that point. Let off the trigger wait another second for it to cool and then pull the gun away. You are left with a stud sticking out from that point. Get the slide hammer and put it over the stud, roll the little locking wheel onto the stud, and then pull tension on the stud. Now while keeping tension slide the hammer forward and then start whacking away. Don't slide the hammer too far forward and bump the back of the stud lock as that will cause it to release the stud. Just keep pulling until either the stud breaks in half, which they do frequently, or you've pulled it as far as you want. Also, don't go bananas here, you don't want to tear the sheet metal. Like most all bodywork it's a lot of watching what the metal is willing to do and coaxing it along. In the end, I got the dent 95% out and close enough that a little skim coat is all it needs to look 100%.
In that picture you can see where the paint is still shiny above all the pulls, that's because the crease ran up that far and the sander couldn't touch the paint there. As I pulled it out all the surrounding areas came back in alignment. This is the kind of stuff I enjoy doing, y'all can have the block sanding.
BTW, to remove the stud from the body, the best way I found was to get a small pair of Vise-Grips. Now come at the stud from a 90-degree angle, parallel with the body, grab the head of the stud with the Vise-Grips. Then slowly rock the head up and down, move the Vise Grips an inch or two up and down. You will feel the stud start to fatigue and eventually it will break away from the sheet metal. Don't fight this part! You don't want to try and just rip it away you can tear the sheet metal or seriously distort it. If you do it this way with the pliers you are left with just a little rough spot where the head was attached and the sheet metal isn't damaged.
Another part that needed to be addressed was the rain gutters. As we know these are what get the roof rot going and are deadly to these trucks. The factory filler has long since turned rock hard and cracked, letting water into the panel welds below. Then it traps the water in there and cancer starts. Once it's in there good it runs the whole length of the seam and eventually, you have what I faced on the FJ62 project. A total F'ing nightmare to fix. Luckily this truck had no real rust up there. I popped off all the old sealer many months ago and hit it with a rust converter back then, just to be sure. Then today I used the 3M self-leveling seam sealer to fill the channels all the way around. If you are going to do this you will need two of them, the special gun and a fair bit of patience. Here are my lessons learned; when you are filling the channels fill the outside of the gutter first. I just ran it along the gutter expecting it to flow completely into the channel. It will flow, some, but it's not like honey, it's more like warm peanut butter. So get the nozzle back up under that lip and run it there first. I had to go back and run the nozzle along the underside of the rain gutter lip to ensure coverage. This is time-sensitive, you've got about 10 minutes after it comes out of the nozzle before it starts to set up. So ensure cover WHILE you are in the area. Next, as you are pumping along and need to move to another area you will need to relieve pressure on the gun so the epoxy stops flowing out. Otherwise, you will have the stuff dribbling out while you are trying to move about, or it will just keep filling an area and you'll have too much in a particular spot. For the front channels next to the A-pillar, you are going to have to help it a little. The gap is too narrow to get the tip all the way down in there. I filled it a bit heavy at the top and let it flow down and then slowly went down the front with the gun perpendicular to the A-pillar. I was putting more in there than was actually needed, but I needed it to flow to the bottom of the channel, and I used a razor knife to run along the channel to hopefully allow any air pockets to escape. I used the knife because it was there, anything very slim should do the job. Then let it run down, it's going to dribble down into the door hinge area, but you can clean it off later. Once you get all this done let it just sit, and it will flow out nicely and will be set up in about 30 mins. It never gets really hard and is very much attached to the truck now. It's very good stuff and I would recommend it highly. Another one of those things where you just pay the money.
You can see the bare metal through the sealer. This is about 5 mins after application and it's flowed out nicely. This stuff should be good for the life of the truck.
So plan going forward, keep smoothing out the dings. I need to spend a fair bit of time over the rear wheel arches that were patched. I will have to get in there with a sander to find all my high spots and use the hammer to bring them down. It's not a factory patch so it's going to need a bit of massaging (since I'm a total amateur) to get it close enough to skim. I don't want to do what so many do, use an a$$ load of filler. I want to literally just skim it like 1mm or so of filler to make it pretty. More than that and I think you compromise the integrity of the finish that goes on top since the filler will still be curing and off-gassing for a long time. As it does it will shrink and you can end up cracking in the finish. At least that's what the old body guy told me who taught me a bunch of stuff, and I've seen it. That could be from the old Bondo they used, but I still think it's good practice to get it as close as possible. No skim is the goal, but I'm not sure I'll ever be that good.
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- Thread starter
- #57
I've been calling it NHT, it's NVH. The 3M stuff came in last night and I see it's NVH (Noise Vibration Harshness). I didn't stay up too late last night as I was too tired to do anything. My shoulders and back are still aching this morning. I forgot how hard all this sanding is on old bones. It's even harder when you suck. I've skimmed and coated some areas like 4 times. I've converted 90% of the filler to dust that rests on the shop floor. Eh, what are ya gonna do?
Anyway, yesterday was a fairly productive one, with plenty of sanding to go around. Got the passenger side of the roof sorted. The right side took the brunt of whatever hail storm the truck was in years ago, so there were a few dings on top too. I also had the spots where the roof rack was mounted and a large low spot just for good measure. Anyway, I was up and down the step ladder about 500 times yesterday, and when you are sanding something that is at chest level you get to work out a whole new muscle group.
I am especially thankful for one tool in the shop that has proven to be critical; my wifi-connected window AC unit. My shop is about 30 minutes from the house, so I can start it from here and when I get to the shop it will have cooled a bit. That's been especially important as of late with days well into the 90's and humidity not far behind. And even though I'm sweating my a$$ off I can only imagine how much worse it would have been without that little window unit.
So one side of the roof is done and I got the 3M adhesive last night. I was able to spend a bit of time on the rear fender arches that were patched and while the pics don't really show it well, they are turning out nicely. I think once the first coat of epoxy primer goes on and the truck is a single color it will start to come together. So I'm heading back today to apply the adhesive which will let me finish the hood, and I'm going to check and see if the door skins need any adhesive too. I want to check the roof, but that would entail removing the headliner, and it's in near-perfect shape so I'll save that for later.
Pics or it didn't happen (POIDH)
Anyway, yesterday was a fairly productive one, with plenty of sanding to go around. Got the passenger side of the roof sorted. The right side took the brunt of whatever hail storm the truck was in years ago, so there were a few dings on top too. I also had the spots where the roof rack was mounted and a large low spot just for good measure. Anyway, I was up and down the step ladder about 500 times yesterday, and when you are sanding something that is at chest level you get to work out a whole new muscle group.
I am especially thankful for one tool in the shop that has proven to be critical; my wifi-connected window AC unit. My shop is about 30 minutes from the house, so I can start it from here and when I get to the shop it will have cooled a bit. That's been especially important as of late with days well into the 90's and humidity not far behind. And even though I'm sweating my a$$ off I can only imagine how much worse it would have been without that little window unit.
So one side of the roof is done and I got the 3M adhesive last night. I was able to spend a bit of time on the rear fender arches that were patched and while the pics don't really show it well, they are turning out nicely. I think once the first coat of epoxy primer goes on and the truck is a single color it will start to come together. So I'm heading back today to apply the adhesive which will let me finish the hood, and I'm going to check and see if the door skins need any adhesive too. I want to check the roof, but that would entail removing the headliner, and it's in near-perfect shape so I'll save that for later.
Pics or it didn't happen (POIDH)
pistonpete
SILVER Star
Coming along 
Its a workout for sure with all the little nooks and edges that can only be done by hand !! I think the 60 is one of the hardest to do.
So much scuffing and such.
Its a workout for sure with all the little nooks and edges that can only be done by hand !! I think the 60 is one of the hardest to do.So much scuffing and such.
- Thread starter
- #59
Yeah, I changed the title again, hopefully, it's betterer. No new pics today, I was too tired. Another 9 hrs of sanding will do that. The one thing I did want to share is regarding the 3M NVH adhesive and how I applied it. So I opened the hood and looked at how the hood skin matched up with the subframe. Being that the hood prop is on the driver's side this will twist the hood, so if you are going to do this then grab something else that you can move around and prop it up near the center. I moved it all around till I got the gaps between the skin and the frame about equal on both sides. It was propped just a little to the passenger side, which makes sense as the frame was likely tweaked from years of twisting when the hood was opened.
Once I got the gaps where they needed to be I started the application. Again you will want to position your fingers so that right after you squeeze a bit into the gap you relieve pressure on the gun. Because you are pushing the contents through the mixing nozzle there is some pent-up pressure while the adhesive is coming out. If you can't quickly relieve pressure then put a little less in the gap than you want and hold it there for about 5 seconds after each one. Otherwise, you will have these black tarry blobs all over the place.
This stuff takes a good hour to really cure to the point you can move the hood. Once cured it will stop being tacky. I also think it swells slightly to fill the gap a bit more and really adhere to the surfaces much better. I was able to glue all the points and still have about 1/3 left, so it's pricey stuff but the results were even better than I imagined. Once I was ready to close the hood I immediately noticed how much more rigid it was. When you hold up the hood with your left hand you notice the flex as you lift it up to remove the prop, this was gone. Closing the hood also didn't have that same tin can sound like it did before. But the biggest change was on the surface of the hood, it was rock solid now. I was surprised at just how strong the hood was now compared to before. It was night and day.
So if you have the doink doink hood, like probably every other old car/truck out there, get this stuff and fix it!
Once I got the gaps where they needed to be I started the application. Again you will want to position your fingers so that right after you squeeze a bit into the gap you relieve pressure on the gun. Because you are pushing the contents through the mixing nozzle there is some pent-up pressure while the adhesive is coming out. If you can't quickly relieve pressure then put a little less in the gap than you want and hold it there for about 5 seconds after each one. Otherwise, you will have these black tarry blobs all over the place.
This stuff takes a good hour to really cure to the point you can move the hood. Once cured it will stop being tacky. I also think it swells slightly to fill the gap a bit more and really adhere to the surfaces much better. I was able to glue all the points and still have about 1/3 left, so it's pricey stuff but the results were even better than I imagined. Once I was ready to close the hood I immediately noticed how much more rigid it was. When you hold up the hood with your left hand you notice the flex as you lift it up to remove the prop, this was gone. Closing the hood also didn't have that same tin can sound like it did before. But the biggest change was on the surface of the hood, it was rock solid now. I was surprised at just how strong the hood was now compared to before. It was night and day.
So if you have the doink doink hood, like probably every other old car/truck out there, get this stuff and fix it!
- Thread starter
- #60
I'm a bit sore as I write this. Fingers hurt, backaches, eyes still scratchy from the dust and whatnot that they've accumulated over the past weeks or so. However, maybe it's been all worth it. I've been working pretty feverishly to make headway on Randall so have been spending every free moment working. And by working I really mean sanding. I've gone through nearly the entire gallon of Evercoat. I swear I never imagined so many little dings were on this beast. It is amazing what 40-year-old faded paint can hide. I use a trick a body man shared with me a long while back on how to find imperfections in the body; take your paper towel, which needs to be one of those shop towels, and lay it flat on the body. Then when you slide your hand over the body you will be able to feel the slightest imperfection where with just your hand you wouldn't. Not sure about the physics behind that, but I can tell you the trick works like magic.
Randall is the biggest vehicle I've done to date. It seems like the body is never-ending, miles and miles of sheet metal. And when I run my hand over the body I would inevitably find more and more dings. I bet I found 100 in total. None were major, but they all required me to mix up more skim coat, apply, and sand. It's been a while since I've sweated like this. You get a heck of a workout. So the hail storm didn't leave the roof unscathed after all. I found about a dozen dings up there and a few other dings that life added. I spent probably 10 hrs in total on the roof alone on dings, add another half dozen or so for clearing out and fixing the rain gutters. The hail storm had clearly come from the passenger side, not a single hail ding on the driver's side at all.
Another thing about a project with this much sheet metal is that just when you think you are done you find a whole other area you've forgotten about. I had skipped over the rocker panel area completely. They weren't bad, no rust at all, but I still have to prep them, and the driver's side did have a dent that a PO had hidden with liberal application of 3M double-sided tape and the snake blinder. In all honesty, you couldn't see the dent at all with the snake blinder on the truck, but with it off it was something that would need to be dealt with before I applied the epoxy.
It was about 12 inches long and was just pushed in about 1/2 of an inch at its deepest point. I was going to get to use the HotShot again, so I pulled it and the flap disk out again. Got the pain off and started attaching the pulling studs. This was way easier than the very small wrinkle in the rear as there was a lot more room to work and the metal was just pushed in along a long flat surface, where the rear was a wrinkle right as a hard 90-degree body panel where two panels came together. So this area was a whole lot more malleable. In the end, it was pretty easy to pull out and from start to finish it took about an hour to prep it for the skim coat.
Now, more sanding. Yay.
Randall is the biggest vehicle I've done to date. It seems like the body is never-ending, miles and miles of sheet metal. And when I run my hand over the body I would inevitably find more and more dings. I bet I found 100 in total. None were major, but they all required me to mix up more skim coat, apply, and sand. It's been a while since I've sweated like this. You get a heck of a workout. So the hail storm didn't leave the roof unscathed after all. I found about a dozen dings up there and a few other dings that life added. I spent probably 10 hrs in total on the roof alone on dings, add another half dozen or so for clearing out and fixing the rain gutters. The hail storm had clearly come from the passenger side, not a single hail ding on the driver's side at all.
Another thing about a project with this much sheet metal is that just when you think you are done you find a whole other area you've forgotten about. I had skipped over the rocker panel area completely. They weren't bad, no rust at all, but I still have to prep them, and the driver's side did have a dent that a PO had hidden with liberal application of 3M double-sided tape and the snake blinder. In all honesty, you couldn't see the dent at all with the snake blinder on the truck, but with it off it was something that would need to be dealt with before I applied the epoxy.
It was about 12 inches long and was just pushed in about 1/2 of an inch at its deepest point. I was going to get to use the HotShot again, so I pulled it and the flap disk out again. Got the pain off and started attaching the pulling studs. This was way easier than the very small wrinkle in the rear as there was a lot more room to work and the metal was just pushed in along a long flat surface, where the rear was a wrinkle right as a hard 90-degree body panel where two panels came together. So this area was a whole lot more malleable. In the end, it was pretty easy to pull out and from start to finish it took about an hour to prep it for the skim coat.
Now, more sanding. Yay.
