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I didn't see it mentioned in this thread. Lexus produced a supercharged LX570 for the Kuwaiti market. 450bhp 520ftlb
LX600 vs Supercharged LX570 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Girl Dad of 3
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- Thread starter
- #42
Good point. The Kuwaiti version had a Magnuson SC (TVS1900) I believe. They only made 200 units for some reason. Wonder why they didn’t offer it elsewhere or in higher volume. In any event, I think the MSRP was north of $130k, which is consistent with the idea that a supercharged LX 570 is better than the new LX 600. If you can stomach the risk…
Probably a more direct comparison to the LX700H, which can be can $140-150k. The LX700 makes similar power (albeit in a much more complicated way with hybrid and twin turbo)
I think the real question is why is Toyota continuing to invest in ICE propulsion when range-extending BEV's offer so much more promise? Scout will be RE-BEV. Same with Ram Charger. The 700 hybrid seems like a missed opportunity, particularly to the overlanding crowd. The specs for RE-BEVs are superior in most every way.
Because their buyers are laggards. Look how many people in this forum who think turbos and hybrids and screens are too cutting edge to be reliable.
Lol. Well, then I'm a fellow laggard if that's the criteria!
But from a systems complexity standpoint, using electric power as the motive force with ICE as the range-extending charger seems much more elegant. The elimination of the transmission alone seems like a win. Further, it creates a ready platform for the transition to solid-state batteries. Not to mention the potential to have virtually endless camp power.
One you drive off the lot with factory warranty, one you dont. That is all 99% care about.
I consider myself in that camp. If Toyota offered it factory, or as warranted dealer installed option, both my LC and Sequioa would be supercharged. But I have enough DIY projects right now. And yes I know they offered it one time and stopped.
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bloc
SILVER Star
I vaguely remember reading a comment on this board that full electrified was having trouble with the very precise low-speed throttle modulation needed for crawling and other technical off-roading. Probably quite a while ago.
Any idea whether that’s true?
Correct. The issue is that electric motors don't do zero-rpm torque. This is a benefit of a torque converter where you can ramp up torque without risking wheel spin. Butting up to a ledge would be an example of where this isn't as smooth with electric as with a conventional trans. You could push EV through a transmission, but at the expense of efficiency and range.
Quad-motor EVs, however, can offer true 100% real-time torque vectoring.
Is the issue that EVs aren't as competent or that we've not adapted our driving technique to optimize their propulsion mode?
- Thread starter
- #50
I get it, and that’s reasonable. But you could basically replace the supercharged LX570 with an entirely different one for about the same money as the LX600 new. Also, under federal law in the US (the magnuson-moss warranty act), manufacturers can only deny warranty coverage if they can prove that an aftermarket part caused the problem. So while adding a supercharger, or any aftermarket modification, can limit your warranty, it does not void it altogether as some have said.
This. For $400-500 we can tune a V35A. Its a minimal cost to gain some decent power. I dont know the exact details on things like the size of the turbos, but if the 3.5L Ecoboost is any indication, you can make 450 whp with nothing but 93 octane and a tune, and you sacrifice nothing in terms of MPG's because the engine runs exactly the same as it did before when you are not floored.
Probably because those things weight like 7500 lbs or more.
I wonder if a lot of it has to due with the fact that they dont have a low range. Even though Electric motors are really torquey, most of them seme like they might have single digit gear reduction on the motors, while us ICE people have the transmission, transfer case, and axles. Something like my 2018 or most other modern 8/9/10 speed transmission trucks have 40:1 or more gear reduction. So to generate whatever wheel torque you need to overcome an obstacle needs potentially 4-5X the motor torque in an EV.
Then on top of that, they are generally heavier. A rivian is like 7500 lbs compared to our 200's at 6000 lbs. So the amount of wheel torque needed to cleaer obstacles is likely greater.
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The scout with range extending is looking really good. I’m thinking of replacing my Tesla with one as a daily. The Rivian R1S completed the Rubicon trail in basically a stock setup on 34s, so I’d imagine the Scout would be equally or more capable off-road with 35s.
They’re also estimating range to be 500+ miles with the gas extender which is damn near what I’m getting with my LX with a 24.5 gallon LRA tank. Honestly is looking way more attractive than the LX700H
1) Cost is not an issue, given the 6 figure starting point.
2) It is well documented (and I have experienced it) MFGs deny warranty claims regularly in violation of MM. And yes, if you got a lawyer, and SME and sued them, maybe (and a big maybe as they have more lawyers and more SME) $25k and 3 years later you would prevail. But if it is factory warranty, there is no issue (and I have experienced this too). So I tend not to add big ticket aftermarket items I do not know how to fix myself without warranty.
Good luck taking Toyota to court arguing magnuson moss when you blow your motor with a supercharger and they tell you to shove it. Probably not worth the effort.
500+ miles is going to be in perfect conditions. We all know that EV ranges drop pretty dramatically when weather conditions are not perfect. And then of course there is the optimistic EPA testing in general which considered "highway" driving to be like 55 mph. My Chevy Bolt will average 4.5 mi/kwh driving around on the local 55mph two lane roads in the summer. But when I get on the freeway doing 75-80 when its 5F outside, I get like 2.5 mi/kwh. My range drops from ~300 miles down to 165miles.
I bet if you get one of these and you jump in an get on the freeway at 80mph, you're real range will be 25-30% less.
The other thing is, using a gas motor in an EREV configuration is usually less efficient. You still have most of the inefficiency of a gas motor(35% thermally efficient), then the inefficiency of converting the mechanical energy to electric energy through the generator, then inefficiency of converting the electrical energy back to mechanical energy at the motors.
If you read about the Ramcharger, it only gets 20mpg once its depleted the battery and switches to using the generator, which is ok, but not great. If they are using the EPA MPG test as their benchmark, thats pretty atrocious compared to what many half ton trucks are getting these days.
My LX weighs about 7200 pounds. Nearly identical to the R1S I had. My quad motor Rivian had amazing throttle control in off-road mode. But you do have to drive it differently and/or dial back regen when tackling more technical terrain.
The limiting factor at least for me wasn’t range or capability it was availability of parts if I broke something.
Ok but a Rivian set up like your LX would be well over 8000 lbs.
So mod for mod, the EV's are having to cope with more mass.
- Thread starter
- #57
Probably screwed if it's the motor that blows. But there's a fighting chance if it's something else (AHC, electronics, etc).
Late to the party, but I just wanted add my two cents, points which have probably already been made 
The premise of the thread is faulty. From an enthusiasts standpoint, I totally get your point, and I'm happy you love your truck. But your truck really isn't a comparable comparison for most of the people walking into Lexus showrooms with $120k to burn.
From the general consumer standpoint:
new>used
stock with warranty > stock > aftermarket anything
carplay or android > older tech
...and to a lesser extent
meh MPG > awful MPG
*adequate* power is good enough. The soccer-momming, daily commuting populous isn't too concerned about being fast. Or rather, average Joe or Jane probably gets in an LX600 and thinks its plenty fast.
The premise of the thread is faulty. From an enthusiasts standpoint, I totally get your point, and I'm happy you love your truck. But your truck really isn't a comparable comparison for most of the people walking into Lexus showrooms with $120k to burn.
From the general consumer standpoint:
new>used
stock with warranty > stock > aftermarket anything
carplay or android > older tech
...and to a lesser extent
meh MPG > awful MPG
*adequate* power is good enough. The soccer-momming, daily commuting populous isn't too concerned about being fast. Or rather, average Joe or Jane probably gets in an LX600 and thinks its plenty fast.
According to that theory an 85 Hilux is the pinacle of overlanding with a GVWR around 4k.
My 200 is close to 8k. For three years I rolled a Power Wagon at 9,500 lbs.
Absolute weight matters only to the extent that it's not engineered for it. Strength: weight important. Power: weight important.
I think you missed my original point. Nowhere did I suggest the Rivian or other EV's were not engineered to cope with their own weight.
