LX570 New Alignment Problem Please Help (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

This issue is still bugging me.

- Alignment doesn't make sense given the amount of attempts they've had at this.
- Toe steer and wheel play is something they must have checked given the the times you brought it back. The 200-series is just exceedingly robust, and while still probable, I'm not very confident this is the issue
- Michelin are a top quality tires and I find it hard to attribute bad symptoms to these tires

Another thread just floated to the top that reminds me of a common issue with the lower control arm in the rust belt. It's been known that the alignment bolts can fuse with the LCA bushings.

Is there any rust issues?

As alignment was addressed recently, this makes this area particularly suspect. Yet the machine shows proof in the pudding that alignment is in the proper range. Twice. SUVs as ours are not that particularly sensitive to alignment issues.

What I'm now suspecting is that the alignment was performed with the LCA bushings fused to the alignment bolt. What this would do is pre-load the the LCA bushings as they twist the bolt to correct alignment. Pre-loaded bushings can create problems with suspension performance. It pre-loads the suspension, and creates tension in the bushing such that it doesn't properly dampen movement.

Ask the dealer to check the LCA alignment bolts to see if they freely spin in the bushing once they've been untorqued? Or do they require significant torque to adjust even if they are loosened?

 

[TTO5]

I know on my 2010 there is no rust. Truck lived it's whole life in interior Texas and looks new underneath. I live in NJ and the truck came here to live 1 year ago but I had the tires and alignment done within 2weeks of buying it. My condition persists

 

[vipergrhd]

Someone suggested changing the ahc fluid which I did but no difference. Somehow my 27 year old 1993 supercharged mustang steering stays perfectly still over bumps. Was thinking about the toe in discussion. An easy way to experiment is loosen the locknut on the tie rods and turn the rods in 1 turn each) not sure if 1turn equals a big change or not. Then drive it. As long as you make both sides the same it should be ok . I might try this myself. I am just glad someone else has the same issue. I wonder if others have it as well and just aren't as sensitive as I (and probably you) are. I can't imagine the truck was designed like this.

I would not suggest turning any tie rods a full turn, you can watch that tire move as you turn it. If you want to experiment no more than a quarter turn each time and mark it before you start and make sure you are going in the right direction.

 

[TTO5]

I would not suggest turning any tie rods a full turn, you can watch that tire move as you turn it. If you want to experiment no more than a quarter turn each time and mark it before you start and make sure you are going in the right direction.

Ok. Thanks for adding that. I wasn't quite sure how much impact a full turn would do. Thank you

 

[TTO5]

Here is the alignment printout from my truck if this sheds any light..

 

[TTO5]

Here is the alignment printout from my truck if this sheds any light..

View attachment 2392954

I am putting on 18 " landcruiser wheels that are mounted on dunlop grantrek tires 285/60/18 (tires will be changed to something better in the next week). I will report if I feel any changes to see if we can rule out the Michelin tires we have as a culprit

 

[milellie111]

I am putting on 18 " landcruiser wheels that are mounted on dunlop grantrek tires 285/60/18 (tires will be changed to something better in the next week). I will report if I feel any changes to see if we can rule out the Michelin tires we have as a culprit

Thank you. And either tomorrow or Thursday I’m having the head mechanic at my Indy shop check the suspension and align it on the Hunter Elite machine so hopefully I will be able to rule this out.

 

[TTO5]

Thank you. And either tomorrow or Thursday I’m having the head mechanic at my Indy shop check the suspension and align it on the Hunter Elite machine so hopefully I will be able to rule this out.

Ok. If it fixes it I will ask for a picture of your alignment specs. Best of luck to you. Stay tuned

 

[milellie111]

I am putting on 18 " landcruiser wheels that are mounted on dunlop grantrek tires 285/60/18 (tires will be changed to something better in the next week). I will report if I feel any changes to see if we can rule out the Michelin tires we have as a culprit

I really have a hard time accepting a scenario where these Michelin Defenders are the issue. They have received high praises on Tirerack, on this forum and on Clublexus on the GX460’s. Seems like someone would have mentioned this if this was a weakness of the tires. I was driving today on the freeway and in certain lanes with uneven pavement and some expansion joints (but not all)the steering wheel felt like it wanted to rip itself away from my hand. I still want to believe something is loose or a bad alignment.

 

[grinchy]

It’s not the tires.

 

[TTO5]

Ok as expected the 18 inch wheel and tire swap did not change the jerking steering wheel over bumps situation. It did however improve the ride quality dramatically. Hits bumps so much softer now with none of the hard feeling the old 20 inchers had. Still have to put new tires on these wheels but what a difference. I did the swap mainly for the ride improvement with small hope it would correct the steering wheel situation. The only thing I lost is s little cornering as now on off ramps it does feel a little less sporty (but come on this is not a sports car). Looking forward to your results on the steering debacle

 

[trailbrakeE46]

Newbie here so this may not be super helpful. What you describe is usually caused by one of three things: 1) tire issue, 2) bump steer caused by suspension changes or alignment, 3) worn suspension components (or overly compliant bushings).

A few other points that you've probably determined through your troubleshooting steps: 1) Modern alignment machines are only as good as the technician operating them (or the last calibration), 2) A good alignment is a matter of preference, 3) A competent mechanic/technician should be able to isolate the cause of your issues.

My 2 cents is that you have tested for cause #1 (tires). So move on to cause #2.

An overly simplified view is that you are describing "bump steer". It is caused by dynamic loading of the suspension which causes a change in toe (either front or rear). This is usually a toe out situation as the suspension absorbs energy over bumps. Toe out makes the car seem darty or unstable. There are basics that anyone with a simple understanding of suspension geometry can correct or adjust to suit for your taste. Assuming caster and camber are in spec (validate the spec with factory documentation), I would request adding a bit more front toe-in - then testing how you like it. Does it get better or worse (make sure they add enough so you can A/B). This lets you do a simplified test for #2.

Now that #1 and #2 are done, move on to #3. Suspension designs like the LC/LX (double wishbone front/live rear) have several wear points. These wear slowly over time, so sometimes you don't even notice until you make another change (like tires). Your mechanic/tech should be able to test for these wear points easily. It's trivial in the grand scheme of things. (this also goes for checking loose/damaged parts).

If it's not #1, #2, or #3 then I'm out of ideas!

 

[milellie111]

Ok as expected the 18 inch wheel and tire swap did not change the jerking steering wheel over bumps situation. It did however improve the ride quality dramatically. Hits bumps so much softer now with none of the hard feeling the old 20 inchers had. Still have to put new tires on these wheels but what a difference. I did the swap mainly for the ride improvement with small hope it would correct the steering wheel situation. The only thing I lost is s little cornering as now on off ramps it does feel a little less sporty (but come on this is not a sports car). Looking forward to your results on the steering debacle

View attachment 2394393

Thanks for the update and ruling this out.
Taking truck in tomorrow to Indy mechanic.

 

[milellie111]

Newbie here so this may not be super helpful. What you describe is usually caused by one of three things: 1) tire issue, 2) bump steer caused by suspension changes or alignment, 3) worn suspension components (or overly compliant bushings).

A few other points that you've probably determined through your troubleshooting steps: 1) Modern alignment machines are only as good as the technician operating them (or the last calibration), 2) A good alignment is a matter of preference, 3) A competent mechanic/technician should be able to isolate the cause of your issues.

My 2 cents is that you have tested for cause #1 (tires). So move on to cause #2.

An overly simplified view is that you are describing "bump steer". It is caused by dynamic loading of the suspension which causes a change in toe (either front or rear). This is usually a toe out situation as the suspension absorbs energy over bumps. Toe out makes the car seem darty or unstable. There are basics that anyone with a simple understanding of suspension geometry can correct or adjust to suit for your taste. Assuming caster and camber are in spec (validate the spec with factory documentation), I would request adding a bit more front toe-in - then testing how you like it. Does it get better or worse (make sure they add enough so you can A/B). This lets you do a simplified test for #2.

Now that #1 and #2 are done, move on to #3. Suspension designs like the LC/LX (double wishbone front/live rear) have several wear points. These wear slowly over time, so sometimes you don't even notice until you make another change (like tires). Your mechanic/tech should be able to test for these wear points easily. It's trivial in the grand scheme of things. (this also goes for checking loose/damaged parts).

If it's not #1, #2, or #3 then I'm out of ideas!

Thanks for your post. This is helpful and organizes well how to proceed.

 

[TTO5]

Thanks for your post. This is helpful and organizes well how to proceed.

Another thank you for that 1 2 3 diagnosis.

 

[milellie111]

I will say that a couple of times I’ve noticed when doing a complete 180 degree turn the steering wheel has failed to return to center while the car is tracking straight at the end of the turn for a few seconds. This happened a while before the alignment and new tires. Not sure if this is normal or related to my issue.

 

[montegofd3s]

I will say that a couple of times I’ve noticed when doing a complete 180 degree turn the steering wheel has failed to return to center while the car is tracking straight at the end of the turn for a few seconds. This happened a while before the alignment and new tires. Not sure if this is normal or related to my issue.

Yeah, that is not normal.

 

[TTO5]

Yeah, that is not normal.

My truck has good steering return.

 

[TTO5]

Out of curiosity does your steering wheel move less over bumps if you are turning slightly at highway speed? Also if you let the truck roll over bumps at 5 to 10 mph can you see the steering wheel moving back and forth in time with the bumps? Mine does quite dramatically

 

[milellie111]

Out of curiosity does your steering wheel move less over bumps if you are turning slightly at highway speed? Also if you let the truck roll over bumps at 5 to 10 mph can you see the steering wheel moving back and forth in time with the bumps? Mine does quite dramatically

Not sure about the first scenario never really paid attention however yes at slow speeds over certain bumps the steering wheel moves. Truck is at the Indy currently getting checked out.