Ok. Staying tuned
LX570 New Alignment Problem Please Help (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter milellie111
- Start date
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I'd highly encourage you guys to consider issue #4, as I mentioned earlier - the LCA bushings are pre-tensioned, when they should be relaxed at ride height.
I say this because you're getting toe-steer, but not in the common form when a suspension component is worn or has failed. (or it could be that the LCA bushings have failed, potentially prematurely due to it being tensioned). The symptom of the steering wheel moving dramatically reinforces this. Suspensions when working properly are highly engineering to resist toe-steer to the degree possible, and taking minor bumps generally shouldn't result in dramatic feedback to the steering wheel. (Unless offset is wrong but you guys are on stock wheels and tire sizes)
The pre-tensioned LCA bushing is getting further wound upon compression, and likely pulling the LCA out of alignment abnormally, resulting in both instability at the tire and feedback to the steering rack.
Two causes for pre-tensioned bushings
1) Suspension work, not following procedure and torquing suspension bushings at full droop on the hoist.
2) Alignment work with a frozen alignment bolt to the inner bushing race. Turning the bolt incrementally for alignment is all that's necessary to pre-load a bushing abnormally.
This might take some effort to diagnose as a tech will have to be convinced to look into this. It will require them to fully disengage the alignment bolt and perhaps remove the alignment eccentrics to know that the bolt is not frozen to the inner race.
I say this because you're getting toe-steer, but not in the common form when a suspension component is worn or has failed. (or it could be that the LCA bushings have failed, potentially prematurely due to it being tensioned). The symptom of the steering wheel moving dramatically reinforces this. Suspensions when working properly are highly engineering to resist toe-steer to the degree possible, and taking minor bumps generally shouldn't result in dramatic feedback to the steering wheel. (Unless offset is wrong but you guys are on stock wheels and tire sizes)
The pre-tensioned LCA bushing is getting further wound upon compression, and likely pulling the LCA out of alignment abnormally, resulting in both instability at the tire and feedback to the steering rack.
Two causes for pre-tensioned bushings
1) Suspension work, not following procedure and torquing suspension bushings at full droop on the hoist.
2) Alignment work with a frozen alignment bolt to the inner bushing race. Turning the bolt incrementally for alignment is all that's necessary to pre-load a bushing abnormally.
This might take some effort to diagnose as a tech will have to be convinced to look into this. It will require them to fully disengage the alignment bolt and perhaps remove the alignment eccentrics to know that the bolt is not frozen to the inner race.
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- Thread starter
- #83
Good tips for troubleshooting. Thank you
- Thread starter
- #85
So, car is back from alignment. Indy found the toe was out, so either that alignment machine at the dealer was not fixed or they did it improperly. Also found one of the tie rod nuts slightly loose. Says my camber bolts were seized so could not be adjusted, however it was in spec and shouldn’t have been issue. Got my money back from dealer when I confronted them with what was found.
Anyway, the car drives much better and feels properly aligned. However, it did not completely cure my loose steering twitch over some joints and roads. Perhaps this is normal or is a characteristic of the Defender Highway tires tread pattern with larger sidewalls than the Tour Latitudes I took off which are more performance oriented I think. It’s not horrible by far, just something I didn’t notice with the old tires. Maybe it will get better with time as they wear or if something is loose in the suspension, it will rear it’s head. I’ll post my alignment sheet.
"Also found one of the tie rod nuts slightly loose. Says my camber bolts were seized so could not be adjusted"
What? The last place you went too never mentioned that. You need to move.
What? The last place you went too never mentioned that. You need to move.
- Thread starter
- #87
"Also found one of the tie rod nuts slightly loose. Says my camber bolts were seized so could not be adjusted"
What? The last place you went too never mentioned that. You need to move.
Yeah that was the Lexus dealer, supposedly one of the best in Maryland who’s even put down other dealers service depts before.
- Thread starter
- #88
So, after double checking, my tire pressures were at 38. I lowered them to 34 psi and the steering feels much better over bumps. I guess the LX is more sensitive to tire pressures than some other vehicles. I think with the new proper alignment and correct tire pressures the truck drives as it should.
gaijin
GOLD Star
34 cold (before driving on them)? What temperature was it outside when you set them? I want to try with mine too
gaijin
GOLD Star
Tire pressures (i.e. Recommended Cold Tire Pressures) are not universal. If you want to know the RCTIP for your tires on your vehicle, just mention me @gaijin in your post and include your vehicle year and model (LX570 or LC200), tire brand and exact size and complete description - I'll give you the RCTIP for your particular setup.
HTH
P.S. RCTIP is set at ambient temperature. RCTIP is the same for 30 degrees or 130 degrees ambient. And yes, "cold" means the tires are equilibrated to ambient temperature and have not been driven on for at least 4 hours.
gaijin
GOLD Star
I have been running E-Rated LT285/70R17 BFG KO's and KO2's on my stock 2013 LC200 since new. It's what Toyota recommends (see Toyota Data Sheet here: TRD 17" Wheel / Tire Data Sheet). I think the Land Cruiser was built for these tires - no problems at all.
Just make sure you run the correct tire pressure
HTH
Gaijin, wondering if you would still run KO2 tires on the oem 20" rim? Or is there a better tire?
gaijin
GOLD Star
Tires are a matter of personal preference - choose whatever makes you happy. Once you decide, I'm available to use the science to advise on a RCTIP.
- Thread starter
- #96
It wasn’t 34 “cold” but I didn’t really have a choice it was midday and at night we are still in the 70/80s’ so temps don’t drop that much.
I am still experiencing the steering wheel play/twitch over small irregularities (but not large bumps). Feels like the wheels are fighting each other. I am beginning to think it’s the tires. (But I have the same tires on my wife’s 14 ML350 and they drive/ride perfect).
I’ve had it aligned at 2 different places and road forced balanced. No one noticed or mentioned any worn suspension items. But, if it was a suspension item, I would have felt this with the old Latitude Tour HP’s I just took off. Have you narrowed anything down? Don’t know if it’s worth my while complaining to Tirerack to get these Michelin Defenders swapped out for Bridgestones. But if I’m wrong, that’s just more time and money wasted.
Well, they put the toe completely neutral, so yeah, it's probably a bit jittery. As posted way above in this thread, you need a bit of pigeon toe. Not a lot, that burns tires. I'm not an expert here, so don't know if it's 0.1 deg in on each side, or 0.05 deg in on each side. But some.
"Cold" just means relative to the ambient temperature. If the tires have been sitting for 4 hours in 100 degree heat, they are cold.
No haven't narrowed it down. The new tire size improved the condition but it is still there. Yet to try toe in the tires a little.
Maybe since they just did your alignment take it back and ask them to play with toe and see if it helps?
