LTO Starter Battery

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So apparently when charging LTO you need to idle up your alternator to cool down for a few minutes if the LTO is fully depleted
any issues charging an LTO to only 14.4-14.8 instead of the required ~15.83V

any damage to cells if you don't charge it fully to the required voltage? perhaps instead of running 6 cells just run 5?


 
Thanks for the intel! I have had chronic standby draw and extreme draw from the slee LED skid lights when camping. I switched up to Slee 31 group tray for the starter and a small slee 'house' for the fridge (not accessories). Long story short, I'm at 12.6 with the LA 31 battery, and I'd like to try LTO.

If I look at the specs for the rectangular LTO batterys (thanks for the links), it looks like I could fit a 4s10p (14 batteries: 4 (+2 of the s) to get the 13.8 and the rest for 200 ah, which would leave 1/2 inch on each side in a box to fit the 31 group tray. Seems straightforward, so what am I missing?
 
Bunga said:
Thanks for the intel! I have had chronic standby draw and extreme draw from the slee LED skid lights when camping. I switched up to Slee 31 group tray for the starter and a small slee 'house' for the fridge (not accessories). Long story short, I'm at 12.6 with the LA 31 battery, and I'd like to try LTO.

If I look at the specs for the rectangular LTO batterys (thanks for the links), it looks like I could fit a 4s10p (14 batteries: 4 (+2 of the s) to get the 13.8 and the rest for 200 ah, which would leave 1/2 inch on each side in a box to fit the 31 group tray. Seems straightforward, so what am I missing?
Click to expand...
I could be wrong, but 4s10p is 40 cells. This thread is talking about using a 6s setup, so you could do 6s2p for 12 cells. 14 wouldn't be a valid multiple. The multiples of 6 in series is the important factor, can't really change that. You can add as many parallel strings as you want.
 
I think I have the nomenclature wrong then, revised maths- 5 batteries in series (1.6v x 5), connected to 9 in parallel (1.6 v (20 ah x 9) 180 ah; would make a 6p as the 5 would 'see' the hybrid 9 as a an additional single series battery? Then you could use a 6p BMS?
 
Bunga said:
I think I have the nomenclature wrong then, revised maths- 5 batteries in series (1.6v x 5), connected to 9 in parallel (1.6 v (20 ah x 9) 180 ah; would make a 6p as the 5 would 'see' the hybrid 9 as a an additional single series battery? Then you could use a 6p BMS?
Click to expand...
I assume you are not trolling here, but that’s not how it works. You need all the cells that you put in series to have the same capacity. 180AH at 1.6v is not at all the same thing as 180AH at 6 times 1.6v. If you did the above you’d be creating a scenario where one of the “cells” would never be used and you would destroy the other 5 cells over discharging them once you used the first 20AH. the xSyP nomenclature is y number of x cells in series paralleled together. 6s2p is your only option around that number of cells. That’s 2 sets of 6 serial strings in parallel.
 
veiloctane said:
So apparently when charging LTO you need to idle up your alternator to cool down for a few minutes if the LTO is fully depleted
any issues charging an LTO to only 14.4-14.8 instead of the required ~15.83V

any damage to cells if you don't charge it fully to the required voltage? perhaps instead of running 6 cells just run 5?


Click to expand...


No issue to charging to 14.4 to 14.8, other than you lose a bit of capacity. IIRC it was less than 20% on my 35ah 6s setup.
No damage to cells basically doing anything "normal". Things to watch out for are 60+C running (as long as there is airflow through your engine bay, plus something to stop radiant heat hitting it directly, you are good.)

There is a massive discussion earlier in this thread about 5s v 6s, if you need facts and figures.
Summary:
5s makes around 14.5v max charge and (while LTO won't catch on fire or explode) it won't be as good for the batteries as not always* charging them to max.
6s makes about 17v or something max charge, making it "safer".
The charge/discharge curves shows were the capacity is, these are what are important, not (so much) the top and bottom. The top and bottom of the curves drop off a cliff.
Unfortunately, 12v is just not super suited to LTO, but don't let that stop you from checking if they suit your particular needs.

Also if you are in the US... 12v LTO 20,000 cycles! 6 cells! - https://batteryhookup.com/products/12v-lto-bmw-lg-chem-20-000-cycles-6-cells-1
 
Phoenix666 said:
No issue to charging to 14.4 to 14.8, other than you lose a bit of capacity. IIRC it was less than 20% on my 35ah 6s setup.
No damage to cells basically doing anything "normal". Things to watch out for are 60+C running (as long as there is airflow through your engine bay, plus something to stop radiant heat hitting it directly, you are good.)

There is a massive discussion earlier in this thread about 5s v 6s, if you need facts and figures.
Summary:
5s makes around 14.5v max charge and (while LTO won't catch on fire or explode) it won't be as good for the batteries as not always* charging them to max.
6s makes about 17v or something max charge, making it "safer".
The charge/discharge curves shows were the capacity is, these are what are important, not (so much) the top and bottom. The top and bottom of the curves drop off a cliff.
Unfortunately, 12v is just not super suited to LTO, but don't let that stop you from checking if they suit your particular needs.

Also if you are in the US... 12v LTO 20,000 cycles! 6 cells! - https://batteryhookup.com/products/12v-lto-bmw-lg-chem-20-000-cycles-6-cells-1
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link... I'm not in US but I'm in Canada the "northern state that lives in igloos" pretty close anyway
kinda cool that's what they used in start-stop systems
 
been eyeing these to build my own anyone have a good source for grade A cells? ill probably be looking at 12pcs for me to start with
seems like there's a lot of scams out there and the cells are not really 45Ah

1694327196436.png
 
veiloctane said:
been eyeing these to build my own anyone have a good source for grade A cells? ill probably be looking at 12pcs for me to start with
seems like there's a lot of scams out there and the cells are not really 45Ah

View attachment 3425056
Click to expand...

Battery hookup is usually good. I bought my from Ali (can't find the seller, sorry!), they were marked as 35Ah and were a bit under. When tested repeatedly, they gave the exact same results each time, so I was happy enough.

I suggest getting them from Ali, providing you do some checks, they are usually ok. Make sure store has been open for at LEAST 3 years, and has 90% rating, then you should be good. Buy the items that are not the obvious fakes (1/2 the cost) and buy about in the middle of the price range, sometimes you can get free shipping. Ali does have a good refund policy, so there is a little protection there. Use Paypal if you can, then you can do a chargeback if things go sideways.

All things considered, there is still some risks. I buy various things from there and have yet to have a complete rip-off, although with other items the build quality is likely to be as good as a Tesla..
 
Phoenix666 said:
Battery hookup is usually good. I bought my from Ali (can't find the seller, sorry!), they were marked as 35Ah and were a bit under. When tested repeatedly, they gave the exact same results each time, so I was happy enough.

I suggest getting them from Ali, providing you do some checks, they are usually ok. Make sure store has been open for at LEAST 3 years, and has 90% rating, then you should be good. Buy the items that are not the obvious fakes (1/2 the cost) and buy about in the middle of the price range, sometimes you can get free shipping. Ali does have a good refund policy, so there is a little protection there. Use Paypal if you can, then Battery hookup is usually good. I bought my from Ali (can't find the seller, sorry!), they were marked as 35Ah and were a bit under. When tested repeatedly, they gave the exact same results each time, so I was happy enough.

I suggest getting them from Ali, providing you do some checks, they are usually ok. Make sure store has been open for at LEAST 3 years, and has 90% rating, then you should be good. Buy the items that are not the obvious fakes (1/2 the cost) and buy about in the middle of the price range, sometimes you can get free shipping. Ali does have a good refund policy, so there is a little protection there. Use Paypal if you can, then you can do a chargeback if things go sideways.

All things considered, there is still some risks. I buy various things from there and have yet to have a complete rip-off, although with other items the build quality is likely to be as good as a Tesla..
Click to expand...
Thanks I’ve bought a few things on AliExpress
Need to check reviews. Some people are actually testing the cells when they get them. So I have to filter thru all the reviews. This is gonna be the biggest ticket item I buy from AliExpress is these LTO batteries and possibly a BMS too.
 
I just bought an ioxus group31 supercap.
 
Yeah, I’m. It even sure how I’ll use it. I have a packaging issue as my charcoal canister is under the hood behind the right headlight where most 2nd batts get installed.
 
batteryhookup.com

2.3v 20ah SCiB LTO Prismatic Cell

These batteries have never been cycled and they are rated for over 20,000 cycles and can be charged/discharged down to -30 degrees Celsius (-22 degrees Fahrenheit) temperatures. They were recovered from unused EV modules. Threaded posts have been laser welded so you can easily assemble with...
batteryhookup.com batteryhookup.com

NOT an affiliate link, just something I saw. Might be useful for those in the USA. May not start a big V8, 500amps alleged maximum, but with minimal voltage sag and AGM being crappy... :)
 
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