Lower Control Arms -- Rebush or Replace? (4 Viewers)

[rommelrommel]

Probably going to have to rebuild mine since I have KDSS. Sounds like 460 arms require making the shock hole bigger? Was tempted to do Moog.

Already pressed 555s in to the factory arms but the stock bushings are smoked.

Yes, and 460 cam bolts.

I rebuilt mine. Even on my truck that is west coast and minimal rust the bushings were a bit of work. One popped out fairly easy, two took a lot of heat and work, and the last one had to be burned out entirely. Then on top of that I had to use an air hammer with a cutting tool to cut the liner out on two of the four as it was seized to the arm.

I wouldn't do it again, if I have the truck that long I'll do 460 arms and cam bolts.

 

[CarGuyCarl]

Hey thanks for the input! Sounds like it might be worth it for me to get some 460 arms and just swap my good 555 ball joints over and keep the others as spares. I feel like cutting them out is going to be enough work already, pressing bushings in and out might not be very enjoyable.

 

[rommelrommel]

Swapping the ball joints would be a waste of time, the factory ones are much better.

 

[masturv8]

Also, what’s the point of 460 arms? Just get the right ones that fit.

 

[rommelrommel]

They're cheaper and the cam bolts are improved. 470 KDSS arms are very expensive.

 

[Jstawgn]

I did rebuild mine. Because I want quad offset bushing to move the wheel as far forward as possible. I use superpro offset front and rear bushing. I also replace the ball joint using 555 ball joint.

Surprisingly both the OEM bushing and ball joint did not give me much problem. Superpro bushing was installed using all threads and a bunch of washer.

I run 35x10.50r17 and almost clear body mount without a chop with 0 offset wheels. End up cutting it a bit when I move to -16 offset.

 

[CarGuyCarl]

Swapping the ball joints would be a waste of time, the factory ones are much better.

OEM 460 arms must be pricy too no? I'd probably go with a Moog or a similar thing off Rock Auto.

 

[masturv8]

OEM 460 arms must be pricy too no? I'd probably go with a Moog or a similar thing off Rock Auto.

You drive a Lexus not a Chevy. OEM parts are pricey because they’re built better and last longer. Moog is garbage.

 

[Rednexus]

My Moogs have been totally fine after 2 years and 30k miles.

 

[masturv8]

30k isn’t much, will be curious to see how long they last.

My current GX was a highway queen but had original LCAs at 290k. One bushing was starting to go. Had to sawz’all 2 of the cam bolts out. I rebuilt them but would 100% buy new OEM if I did it over again.

 

[captainva]

The big difference in OEM vs aftermarket arms is really only the ball joint but bushings are very similar if not the same quality. OEM Toyota ball joints (aka 555) use brass or another metal for the bearing surface of the ball vs plastic for the cheap ones

What's inside a ball joint: OEM vs Aftermarket - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

ES - 1st to 4th Gen (1990-2006) - What's inside a ball joint: OEM vs Aftermarket - I opened up my Solara's OEM ball joint and an aftermarket ball joint as a comparison to see what's inside. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO0KH4EqtCY And here's a pic of the components inside...

www.clublexus.com

 

[Rednexus]

The Moogs are greasable. I grease them at every 5k oil change. My OEM joints were floppy at 145k. I'm not saying the Moogs are OEM quality, but they have been fine for me and are less than half the costof OEM. I still have my OEM arms and will rebuild them when the Moogs wear out.

 

[captainva]

Moog is fine and thats what I'm running too but they will fail faster than OEM. Anything thats less than 50% the cost of OEM Toyota parts uses plastic and not metal in the ball joints. My post was intended as the more you know kinda thing

 

[masturv8]

The big difference in OEM vs aftermarket arms is really only the ball joint but bushings are very similar if not the same quality. OEM Toyota ball joints (aka 555) use brass or another metal for the bearing surface of the ball vs plastic for the cheap ones

What's inside a ball joint: OEM vs Aftermarket - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion

ES - 1st to 4th Gen (1990-2006) - What's inside a ball joint: OEM vs Aftermarket - I opened up my Solara's OEM ball joint and an aftermarket ball joint as a comparison to see what's inside. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO0KH4EqtCY And here's a pic of the components inside...

www.clublexus.com

That’s an article regarding a Solara not a GX. One of these is not like the other.

 

[masturv8]

The Moogs are greasable. I grease them at every 5k oil change. My OEM joints were floppy at 145k. I'm not saying the Moogs are OEM quality, but they have been fine for me and are less than half the costof OEM. I still have my OEM arms and will rebuild them when the Moogs wear out.

I’ll never understand why people go for greasable joints/zerks. No thanks.

Aftermarket parts manufacturers and good-ol boy mechanics have done a good job of making this seem like a desirable feature, when in reality it just allows them to use lower quality materials, sloppier design tolerances then blame failures on ‘lack of maintenance’ then mechanics get to change them out more often.

Auto manufacturers don’t provide these because their ball joints are superior, and they don’t need to be greased every couple weeks like a John Deere.

 

[Rednexus]

In my case, it allowed me to save $300+ on a set of LCAs. Yes, they require greasing, but so do the other 6 OEM zerks that Mr. T put on my front and rear driveshafts. I already grease the underside of my rig every 5k, and it takes maybe 2 extra minutes to also grease the lower ball joints. They are always plump and full between 5k greasing so I honestly think the frequency could be even less.

If you don't like them don't use them, but in my experience they are totally fine.

 

[masturv8]

Drive shafts make sense, given the heat and friction generated at the speed they turn at you’ll destroy even better quality bearing materials. Toyota does what’s reliable, and even a 2023 model has zerks from the factory. I bet we start to see them go away in the next few years though.

When it comes to maintenance requiremensts; Less is more!

 

[captainva]

That’s an article regarding a Solara not a GX. One of these is not like the other.

You're missing the point...the inside construction of our ball joints is exactly the same as whats shown there...

 

[Rednexus]

Just FYI the Moog tie rod ends and sway bar end links do suck. I have those too - they are dissimilar to OEM in construciton. All of the boots ripped within 6 months of installation - albeit small rips. I hit the up with the grease gun too but will replace them with 555s at some point in the future.

I also replaced all four of the rear LCAs and UCAs with Moog parts. They were all of $120 - for all four - on Rock Auto. As far as I could tell they were identical copies of the OEM arms in every dimension/detail. They've done very well so far and were vastly easier and cheaper thang getting OEM arms or pressing in new bushings. If I bend one or something, they are only ~$30 each so no big deal.

Moog control arms = Copies of OEM and fine with regular maintenance/greasing

Moog everything else = junk

 

[dnp]

30k isn’t much, will be curious to see how long they last.

My current GX was a highway queen but had original LCAs at 290k. One bushing was starting to go. Had to sawz’all 2 of the cam bolts out. I rebuilt them but would 100% buy new OEM if I did it over again.

Yeah, I hate it, but I agree. I put Moogs on mine, hoping to get at least 100k out of them. Now, at 45k, they're nothing but loose garbage (and this is from 95% road use!) It's painful to spend what Toyota charges for most parts, but to spend less and then have to spend again (and again, and again) is sort of like cutting off a cat's tail little by little so it won't hurt so badly!

I resisted the "buy once, cry once" mantra for a long time, but it's actually quite true........