Lift and tires

[tntoyota]

Since it's somewhat related, what sort of gear ratios would folks here recommend for the various tire sizes ranging from 31 to say 36 or 37?

I've currently got 31s, can easily fit 33s, and will probably have room in the future for at least 35s. So if the plan is to eventually run 35s, I might as well go ahead and buy stout enough gears to run them now and only deal with it once, rather than re-gearing every time I buy new tires.

I see people mention 5.29, but would 4.88 be enough to power 35s or even 37s?

I'm using a '87 4runner as a daily driver, so I probably won't be swapping out the 22re any time in the near future, but I wouldn't mind having a little more power to the wheels.

Edit: Also, what sort of modifications would be in order to make the speedometer read accurately after changing the gears or running larger tires?

Gears are ment to keep your motor in the peak torque curve, W/ big tires, too little and it chuggs down the road NO efficientcy (like pulling a boat with you everywhere you go) too much and it over revs down the HWY in 5th like your in 4th gear. Thats WHY its called FINAL DRIVE!


2MK, no spedo gears are availible so proper gear is the best way to correct spedo


YOU must diturmen what you want for the options availible,

1: tire size availible

2: gear ratio availible


There is no honey spot whats availible is availible.

I have the info to make it SO EASY but I cannot down load the images


typicly 4:88s are the closest for 33's and 5:29's are closest for 35's

but as I stated above you can deside if you want over run or under run by manipulating tire size.


you CAN NOT gear for tires between 31 and 37 too wide wont work

4:88s can possably work on 35-37's if you bolt on every source of power to torque the wheels to move, I would NOT!!!

5:29's are fine (AT? 5:71's) just make sure there set up right!


To give you an idea a slight rule of thumb that I use in deturmaning gear is 1/10th per inch, every inch you go up in tire (BTW 1/2" ground crearence) results in a 1/10 loss in gear.



stock 4:11 = 28" tire
**** 4:11 w/ 29 = 4:01
**** 4:11 w/ 30 = 3:91
**** 4:11 w/ 31 = 3:81
and on and on..........

you are OUT of the peak torque of your motor.


There is 3" difference in 33's and 35's but tires have axis theres only 1.5" of ground clerence between the two

use that and mpg loss, more eng. stress, tranny stress, increase chance of breakage, etc, to help diturmen your choice.

35's 5:29's

DD, 32 / 33's 4:88's...........




M.O!!

 

[tntoyota]

how long must someone be stuck in this "learning purgatory?

Only the wheeler can be the best judge of that, by then grasshopper, whenever, you will know.

Yes, I own a locked 80 and post in 80's tech, but started "wheelin" in the mid '70's in a VW Baja, followed closely by a FJ40, didn't own a locked rig until relatively recently.

Gotcha , understand...............a diamond in the rough


as soon as I get my supercharged, headered, chiped & dipped, 450h.p, 6mpg, 1fZ ready we'll go wheel'n down mexico way






































the gas stations are 200 miles apart in baja right?

 

[Tools R Us]

Alot of good info guys, thanks! I'm thinking 35's with 3-4" lift. Would that still be ok on the road, since it's my DD. I'm also working on getting more power. Whether by cams and carb for the 22r or by doing a swap. It just want to get out on the trails. The stock suspension gets me by, but takes a beating. Would the stock engine be able to push the 35's?

I agree that the best way to make it drivable with bigger tires is gears matched to the tires. They help both street and offroad, win-win. The next step is a crawler box for offroad.

The 22R is what it is, a great, reliable little grunt motor. It will never be a high revving powerhouse, twin cam, 4 valve motors will always beat it in that respect. Be careful in modifying it, if too large of a cam, exhaust, etc are used, the power band is moved up the rpm range, loosing the low end grunt that you want for offroad.

If it's in good condition, the stock Asian carb is a good piece, it's reliable, runs at pretty good angles and well matched to the motor. If it's changed for a larger carb, you may gain slight power at high rpm, but will probably loose low rpm performance. I can't think of another carb that I would take the Asian off for. If I were going to do a fuel system upgrade it would be EFI or propane.

 

[beatdown83fj60]

Whatever you do don't buy 5:71 gears. That deep of a gear becomes weak with a whole lot less teeth on the ring gear (or is it the pinion? Does it matter?) For any real offroad use 5:71's are not reccomended by anyone I have spoke to, especially if there is a locker involved. Yeah I know, now some guy with Yukon 5:71's will chime in and say hes been running em hard for 5 years, well here is a pre-emptive reply, You are the only one that hasn't blown them up lol.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

5.71's are fine if set up properly.

Link here.

I'm going to make a tire size/gear thread now.......

 

[bkg]

5.71's are fine if set up properly.

Link here.

I'm going to make a tire size/gear thread now.......

Unfortunately, Zuk, as smart as he is, is wrong. He only compares the size of the gear and doesn't consider contact area, tooth load and the like.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Please feel free to educate me/us, I'm no expert by any means.....

 

[Tools R Us]

Unfortunately, Zuk, as smart as he is, is wrong. He only compares the size of the gear and doesn't consider contact area, tooth load and the like.

I agree with you, however the strength difference isn't as great as "web paranoia" makes it out to be. The original poster isn't building a rock basher buggy, for his trail riding use, properly setup gears of whatever ratio match his needs will likely holdup just fine.

 

[tntoyota]

like I always say, follow the weak link.


Anytime somethig breaks a tire blows etc. its at its weakest point.


When building something, anything you must know its weaknesses and plan/ factor that into the build.


in our case its the front diff 1: a 7.5" r&p not the same (as in other 4x's) as the strong rear, it's already a 1/2" down, then 2: its IFS (alot of moving parts) in order to get power to the wheels it must go through a lot to get there, shafts, joints, shafts, joint, shafts, oh and joints 3: rubber........rubber??? yeah the stuff that keeps the lude in for the "joints" and keeps'em from melting. 4: steering its fine with stock and with bigger BUT, the bigger you beef one thing (gears, tires) the smaller you make something else, not a lot of ops. for steering........................etc.


And we havent even covered lockers yet!


the payoff? dont let that stuff scare you Toyota 86-95 is IMHO the baddest most awsome IFS on the road.........thread that!! We'll be glad to tell ya!


I wont get into that! how much time you got?

My point? You know this, and the payoff IS WORTH IT!!

Now build around this yes the front diff is smaller YES the 5:71's (in the 7.5, NOT rear/V6) have a puny pinion forget fact 1 how those joints gonna live?....steering?.....the "weak link"?

You might have to scale back but remember if its broke you aint getting out and I can out wheel you, and wheel you out, in 32's 33's......it aint the rubber, its the driver.



NEVER seen an Expedition rig with 33's. wonder why?

Google vidio: Camel trophy








EDIT!!!!


EDIT!!!

NOT saying he's building an EXped rig.................just saying you can 4wheel like a mad man with tires under 44"

 

[Tools R Us]

...
in our case its the front diff 1: a 7.5" r&p not the same (as in other 4x's) as the strong rear, it's already a 1/2" down, then 2: its IFS ...

The subject truck is a '83, same diffs front and rear, no ifs weak link.

 

[beatdown83fj60]

I agree with you, however the strength difference isn't as great as "web paranoia" makes it out to be. The original poster isn't building a rock basher buggy, for his trail riding use, properly setup gears of whatever ratio match his needs will likely holdup just fine.

Agreed on the web paranoia thing. But I must say this, with the very large amount of Toyota's running 35"+ tires these days wouldn't 5:71 gears be a common occurence? I think there is plenty of fact to it. There are people with 30 spline longs/cryo hubs/front lockers/38" swampers that will blow up 5:29's all day long.

 

[Tools R Us]

Agreed on the web paranoia thing. But I must say this, with the very large amount of Toyota's running 35"+ tires these days wouldn't 5:71 gears be a common occurence? I think there is plenty of fact to it. There are people with 30 spline longs/cryo hubs/front lockers/38" swampers that will blow up 5:29's all day long.

It maybe a local thing, but a lot of people here are running them on very aggressive rigs with good results. My take on it is that it's come full circle; Early on a lot of low gears were broken, the alarm went out and most switched to higher gears. Then started breaking tcase outputs, etc, moving the stress up the driveline. Now it appears that some are moving the other way with good success.

IMHO a deeper gear will always be somewhat weaker, but some of the breakage may have been due to setup and some have learned how to set them up to get the most out of them. It's always a compromise, if your going to push the rig hard something is going to break, pick your poison, a relatively easy to change diff, tcase, axle, birf, etc?

A lot also depends on driving style and rig setup, some drivers can break anything, others almost never break. A couple of FJ40's in our club run old coarse spline axles and birfs! They both have lockers and regularly run 4 rated trails, only one has broken a birf and he has a V8.

 

[beatdown83fj60]

Haha what are those old 40 axles 9 spline or something like that? I plan on keeping my weak links as far away from the ring and pinion as possible. We should have a test. I'll run my 410s welded and you weld up your 571s. Well both run them front and rear with 30 spline longs an cryo'd everything. Well see which one will break first . Actually Im just kidding, hoping Bobby Long will come across this thread and sponsor both of us .

 

[wancho1]

There's alot of good info here, thanks guys. So if I went smaller, 33's, with a 3" lift, would I be able to do most wheeling? I'd get a locker down the road sometime which I'm sure would help alot.

 

[Tools R Us]

There's alot of good info here, thanks guys. So if I went smaller, 33's, with a 3" lift, would I be able to do most wheeling? I'd get a locker down the road sometime which I'm sure would help alot.

Yes, 33's would be a nice upgrade and will do a lot of trails. If your attending the Trail Teams event, you may want to wait and observe how different trucks, setups preform on that trail before making a decision.

In our terrain wide tires don't help much and in 15" most 33"s are 12.50" wide, they take more power to push down the road and are harder to fit in the wheel wells with little/no benefit. You may think of switching to 16", 285's are narrower and 16" tires are now much more popular, more size selection.

Craigs list is a great resource! Late model Taco, Runner, etc rims show up often for cheap. They have more backspacing and will need wheel spacers, but going slightly wider with spacers is a good thing with the early narrow axles. 285 tires showup pretty often, buying a set cheap allows you to run, test them and if you don't like them toss them back on the list, sell them with little $$$ loss.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/pts/376212931.html

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/pts/387260630.html

 

[tntoyota]

The subject truck is a '83, same diffs front and rear, no ifs weak link.

Doesent matter "follow the weak link"--------BIRFIELDS!!!!!


sorry, got confused talking to that guy V (look down )

Since it's somewhat related, what sort of gear ratios would folks here recommend for the various tire sizes ranging from 31 to say 36 or 37?

I've currently got 31s, can easily fit 33s, and will probably have room in the future for at least 35s. So if the plan is to eventually run 35s, I might as well go ahead and buy stout enough gears to run them now and only deal with it once, rather than re-gearing every time I buy new tires.

I see people mention 5.29, but would 4.88 be enough to power 35s or even 37s?

I'm using a '87 4runner as a daily driver, so I probably won't be swapping out the 22re any time in the near future, but I wouldn't mind having a little more power to the wheels.

Edit: Also, what sort of modifications would be in order to make the speedometer read accurately after changing the gears or running larger tires?

arrrr! who started this tread?

I would like some input on a build up. My mini is a daily driver, but I would also like to use it for some off-roading (nothing too hardcore). Would 33's or 35's be better and what kind of lift (suspension or body) would work for each tire setup. Thanks.

Back on track now

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

I don't think Bobby is sponsering anyone right now.... I know a guy who just asked

FYI I'm running 33X10.5 BFG M/T's with stock open 4.10 diff gears and Marlin 4.7 T-case gears, and what my truck will do scares me. On a lot of stuff I'll wuss out before it will stop going. So there's something to think about.

 

[wancho1]

Yeah, 33's are starting to sound alot better. 35's just seemed like too much, if there's such a thing. I'll look into getting 16 inch rims. By the way, if I get Taco or 4Runner rims what is the difference in backspacing? What size wheelspacers would I need? The search begins! Thanks alot guys. This thread has really helped alot.

 

[r0nin89]

Honestly I think 5.29's are way to steep for 35's on a daily driver. I'd go with the 4.88's because 1) They are stronger and 2) People always over gear. I've known buddys that ran 44's on 4.10's with a 22r. Not saying thats a good idea but its not like the truck is gonna explode if your a little undergeared.

 

[bkg]

Honestly I think 5.29's are way to steep for 35's on a daily driver. I'd go with the 4.88's because 1) They are stronger and 2) People always over gear. I've known buddys that ran 44's on 4.10's with a 22r. Not saying thats a good idea but its not like the truck is gonna explode if your a little undergeared.

5.29's are necessary to bring the gearing back to stock when moving to 35's. Simple gear calculator shows they are both about 20% lower than stock.

4.88's being stronger than 5.29's is a non issue. The key is making sure the gears are setup properly.