nor_cal_cyclist
GOLD Star
For what mbach, myself and others have into these builds, I'm not sure I'd call them "mid-tier" - and regardless, the work should be done correctly.
Learn from me - Bad build experience Ed Martin
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For what mbach, myself and others have into these builds, I'm not sure I'd call them "mid-tier" - and regardless, the work should be done correctly.
CharlieS
GOLD Star
Perhaps I am being naive, but I for one do not assume malicious intent, and that anyone participating in these transactions was out to do things incorrectly. At the end of the day there are people installing these parts, and everything is subject to human error.
I suppose there may be some bad apples out there that go to work and decide to purposely mess up a customer job, but I expect most people go to work and try to do the best job they can.
No matter how many tens of thousands of dollars an end user pays, the guy turning the wrenches is probably getting a modest wage and (if at all like non-dealer mechanics I know) is not getting investment in training. Most of them pay for their own tools and toolboxes. That someone might have overtightened a slider mounting bolt or two, or might have grabbed the wrong rating hose by mistake doesn’t shock me. I know my work isn’t perfect, I’m human, I make mistakes. I don’t know why they’d be any different.
The vibe from some posts suggests that people think Eric or the dealership are cheats and crooks. I don’t buy it for a second based on a lot of great, friendly, helpful, and generous interactions I’ve had with Eric and some of the staff at Ed Martin Toyota.
Unless there is a private dialog that we on the forum aren’t privy to, it sure seems like Eric and the dealership have stood behind the deals and done whatever they could to make rings right.
I could absolutely be full of (&$)))?!/. But nothing I’ve read so far makes me think anything less of Eric or the dealership.
I get it, people paid a kings ransom for what they expected to be a dream build, executed to perfection. It is disappointing when it doesn’t play out the way we hope.
This is also one reason I do all of my own work. If anything goes wrong, I know exactly who to hold accountable, and who is on the hook to make it right.
I suppose there may be some bad apples out there that go to work and decide to purposely mess up a customer job, but I expect most people go to work and try to do the best job they can.
No matter how many tens of thousands of dollars an end user pays, the guy turning the wrenches is probably getting a modest wage and (if at all like non-dealer mechanics I know) is not getting investment in training. Most of them pay for their own tools and toolboxes. That someone might have overtightened a slider mounting bolt or two, or might have grabbed the wrong rating hose by mistake doesn’t shock me. I know my work isn’t perfect, I’m human, I make mistakes. I don’t know why they’d be any different.
The vibe from some posts suggests that people think Eric or the dealership are cheats and crooks. I don’t buy it for a second based on a lot of great, friendly, helpful, and generous interactions I’ve had with Eric and some of the staff at Ed Martin Toyota.
Unless there is a private dialog that we on the forum aren’t privy to, it sure seems like Eric and the dealership have stood behind the deals and done whatever they could to make rings right.
I could absolutely be full of (&$)))?!/. But nothing I’ve read so far makes me think anything less of Eric or the dealership.
I get it, people paid a kings ransom for what they expected to be a dream build, executed to perfection. It is disappointing when it doesn’t play out the way we hope.
This is also one reason I do all of my own work. If anything goes wrong, I know exactly who to hold accountable, and who is on the hook to make it right.
ATwoZ
SILVER Star
This is where my sentiment has been, I'd find it hard to believe Ed Martin/Eric would be trying to cut corners per se, and I'm sure was some mix of trying to distribute work and manage a schedule etc.
All that being said, I do believe Ed Martin should be doing a lot more to do right by OP. Covering the cost of repairs is the least action, and candidly if I had bought a brand new LC and took it to what was previously considered one of the more reputable places I'd be livid at the outcome.
I'm at the other end, I bought a used LX and I've used it as an opportunity to learn more as I work on it, or take it to local Indy shops I trust for basic maintenance. I have the benefit of being near Sleep for when I need to do more.
We still have folks here coddling the dealer and chalking it up to ”mistakes happen”, unbelievable. I would never buy a custom truck from Ed Martin after this unless it was handled by the likes of Slee/Dissent. They crushed the frame putting on sliders for crying out loud.
Eric is a good dude and he is not personally responsible but IMO they (Ed Martin) should have instantly bought this truck back or shipped back to the dealer shop (while sending him a loaner) to go over with a fine tooth comb to make it right.
Sounds like this member had to source his own mechanic multiple times to fix said laundry list. I get the dealer paid in the end, but time is money. I also cannot imagine the stress dealing with this after dropping north of a 100k thinking you just got a premium build. I’m honestly shocked by the amount of members here siding with the dealer or at a minimum making excuses for them/trying to take the high road.
Its not about if they did it on purpose or cut corners maliciously, nobody in their right mind thinks that. Plus how is that a defense anyways? Its actually worse than that, the people doing the work have no clue what they’re doing! I encourage folks to read the first post again about how much has been wrong with this build. It’s not the only one either, another member here has been less vocal but had similar issues.
I have never met anyone here nor do I have a bone to pick with anyone. I just see a bad situation that should’ve been handled better. It’s like a year later and this dude is still hunting down issues with his truck.
Eric is a good dude and he is not personally responsible but IMO they (Ed Martin) should have instantly bought this truck back or shipped back to the dealer shop (while sending him a loaner) to go over with a fine tooth comb to make it right.
Sounds like this member had to source his own mechanic multiple times to fix said laundry list. I get the dealer paid in the end, but time is money. I also cannot imagine the stress dealing with this after dropping north of a 100k thinking you just got a premium build. I’m honestly shocked by the amount of members here siding with the dealer or at a minimum making excuses for them/trying to take the high road.
Its not about if they did it on purpose or cut corners maliciously, nobody in their right mind thinks that. Plus how is that a defense anyways? Its actually worse than that, the people doing the work have no clue what they’re doing! I encourage folks to read the first post again about how much has been wrong with this build. It’s not the only one either, another member here has been less vocal but had similar issues.
I have never met anyone here nor do I have a bone to pick with anyone. I just see a bad situation that should’ve been handled better. It’s like a year later and this dude is still hunting down issues with his truck.
Wow, I haven't been around for awhile due to some family health concerns. IMO what a s*** sandwich, I would look into Lemon Laws (not certain how dealer paid mods would effect / litigation, at this point you are being much kinder than I would give the $$$$ you spent. I last looked at this thread shortly after Eric posted and guessed the issues would be resolved professionally. My dealer experiences are limited to oil changes as Heartland was/is cheaper than I can do it myself.
BTW, on the same side of the sound as you (BI).
BTW, on the same side of the sound as you (BI).
I have had my share of car salesmen and dishonesty years ago when buying a car for my wife out of state, and it’s infuriating when the very same guy was grinning, slapping backs, and telling jokes when he walks you into finance office suddenly becomes a stranger once the deal is done and you uncover, let’s say - inconsistencies with what was promised and what was delivered. This one strikes a chord with me.
This is my last post on this, and I don’t know both sides of the story. I’d recommend getting an attorney and file for damages. I should have done the same years ago, but I was young and did not understand my options and the dealership knew this.
Best of luck to all involved.
That's fair. I couldn't imagine spending the money you guys have. It wasn't my intention to downplay your experience. I was thinking more with regard to the "proper" builds sent to Slee and Dissent. Those guys live and breathe this platform, and to my knowledge, those builds worked out. If I recall, the Slee build went into service as an overland rental. Could you imagine renting a build put together by apes at 4WD parts?! ...As I said, that's on the Ed Martin dealership and they should have known better. I just hope they learn from it.
...btw, I've been watching your 40 build. That one appears to be in the right hands.
Could you imagine renting a build put together by apes at 4WD parts?!
Some here have…at their expense.
Obviously.
This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the issue. That said, at this point we are just beating a dead horse
and repeating the same old lines from either side line. I hope the OP gets some financial and emotional/mental resolve out of all of this and still derives some enjoyment out of the vehicle for many years to come.
I think the man <Ed Martin?> means well? Growing pains maybe? Too much work he needs to sub it out? Lack of depth with his understanding of a "full" build? Seems out west he's the go to guy for a brand new purchase build. I'm sure he has a great portfolio.
That being said I am not the best mechanic. I can do more than most mechanics at Pep Boys but I know my limits. One thing I have learned over the decades is find one qualified 4x4 shop to do all of the work for a build. Don't part it out for a deal. One good shop will learn your rig and also point things out that should be addressed before you do the next mod. You will save so much time, money and headache. Especially on a major build. And the indy shop builds its clients over years with a good record. Dealers not so much.
If all if this happened with your build I would ask to not pay a dime for the labor. That hose was over the top. Let him figure it out with his subs. I am in manufacturing and if we sub out a job to a third party and they mess up the responsibility it is still on us. That is why we vet out subcontractors very carefully.
The thing is with all mods it's custom work. So liability can be hard to prove or does not exist. (and with a Stealership ?!? )That's why you need a top 4x4 mechanic for mods.
That being said I am not the best mechanic. I can do more than most mechanics at Pep Boys but I know my limits. One thing I have learned over the decades is find one qualified 4x4 shop to do all of the work for a build. Don't part it out for a deal. One good shop will learn your rig and also point things out that should be addressed before you do the next mod. You will save so much time, money and headache. Especially on a major build. And the indy shop builds its clients over years with a good record. Dealers not so much.
If all if this happened with your build I would ask to not pay a dime for the labor. That hose was over the top. Let him figure it out with his subs. I am in manufacturing and if we sub out a job to a third party and they mess up the responsibility it is still on us. That is why we vet out subcontractors very carefully.
The thing is with all mods it's custom work. So liability can be hard to prove or does not exist. (and with a Stealership ?!? )That's why you need a top 4x4 mechanic for mods.
Heard there’s a big market for tricked out Camry’s and Rav-4s since the 300 is not coming to the US.
/s
/s
double post.
Im actually seeing some pretty sweet Rav4 builds lately.
The question is how much did or does Ed Martin charge for shop hours? If they charge Toyota dealer shop rates at $150 - $200 per hour and then hand it over to 4WP that charges $100-$125 to do the labor then its at the very least extremely deceptive. I think everyone who bought a LC from Ed Martin assumed they would be doing the work in house. Did anyone know they were sending the work out before this thread? As far as I know Ed Martin had never ever mentioned they were sending their work out previously. While they may not have complete control over the work done by their subcontractors the question is why are they even sending out work in the first place? All the work should have been done in house and if not that information probably and should have been disclosed. I don't know how much they were charging for labor but you can bet it was not cheap.
Make no mistake about it Ed Martin represents themselves as a premiere Toyota Dealership specializing in Land Cruiser sales and builds. Could you imagine if you took your LC to Slee Off-Road and it turns out they were just sending it to 4WP? Yeah you'd be pissed too. I think this has shed a different light on the practices going on at Ed Martin. When you represent yourself in a certain way and charge premium prices then a certain level of professionalism, workmanship, and quality is expected.
jomelo
SILVER Star
I bought a 2020 Heritage Edition from Eric and we did a “mid-tier” build as some would call it. The total cost was around $130,000. The truck is gorgeous and there is nothing wrong with it. Did I know some of the work was done at 4wp? Yes. Was all the work done there? No. Eric’s earlier post on this issue outlined exactly why that work is outsourced. I had absolutely no issues because that location was doing more work on more brand new 200 series than any single shop on the entire eastern United States. They certainly had much more experience than any shop in my area. Some stuff was getting bolted on - it was not like it was getting a supercharger
Would I buy from Eric and Ed Martin again? Yes. I recently bought a 2021 from him and I would probably buy another one next year if they still made them. Eric is a stand up guy.
I posted early on and I do feel bad for the OP. It sounds like the problem has now been solved and I hope he gets to enjoy the truck. I’m not taking Eric’s side on this issue. I am not really in a position to comment because it’s not my truck and I’m not privy to all the actual details. I’m just saying he has sold a ton of 200 series with no issues - including mine. However, I suspect most new members of this forum are probably just going to suspect Eric and Ed Martin Toyota are “slimy car dealers” due to this thread. That is simply not the case.
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