Knuckle Cut & Turn

[TheBigBoy]

Word. But they don't flex like a proper linked setup, either. Depends what you're doing with the rig, I suppose.

Thats exactly right. Most are driven daily and do loong miles to a destination. Road handling is just as important as offroad. The same geometry applies to the pavement as to the tracks. A truck that drives as well as stock and has 3/4 of the travel a linked suspension does was the goal. And even then offroading it gives far more feedback to the driver.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

The cut and turn works well, because with the caster comes the correct camber on turn, to make the car drive like it should, reduce understeer, and stop outer edge tyre wear.

The correct caster/camber should not be underestimated, and is only tolerated by those who don't really know what it should drive like, I find.

In the 90's we used to cut and turn them and hard chrome the balls, as well as flange the housing and swivel, so we could adjust it where we wanted it, then drill it and dowel it to hold its position with slotted holes [like a Land Rover] Tis allowed changes side to side as well, if required.

We used to flip the arms back then too, on 4" + lifts, but found four link with good shocks gave better travel, handling through articulation range, pinion angle, and travel, when done right. Bump spacing and limiting travel could be an issue with flipping the arms.

I still think a modded X link so it can be pinned to a bush so it drives like it should on the road, would be the next logical step, rather than trying to squeeze in the top 4 link mounts, but ideally, you can only use so much front travel, and the rear is really more important.

Correct caster [well done on the thread to the OP, it should be an inspiration for those who don't want vibe, and good handling/correct caster] I also find using offset bearings for the swivels will allow you to set cambers where you want to make the car more pointy in the front, and reduce understeer, 20-30 min neg camber for 35's and 25-35 minutes for 37's as a rough rule of thumb.

If it has a rear bar and storage, a heavier sway bar on the back can help it keep up with the pointy front then, without effecting articulation, with the extra weight having the leverage over the heavier sway bar.

Good shocks will also help wit the car siting level on the change of direction.

I use 2.5" bypasses in 12.5" front and rear travel we use for the 80/105 bolt on for those who like to fiddle, over the 12" CDC adjustables for compression we have been using, and have found these can have as a dramatic effect as a larger sway bar upgrade, on change of direction, on their own.

A good option for lifted trucks to keep standard bushes in the standard arms, which work pretty well.

 

[TheBigBoy]

The cut and turn works well, because with the caster comes the correct camber on turn, to make the car drive like it should, reduce understeer, and stop outer edge tyre wear.

The correct caster/camber should not be underestimated, and is only tolerated by those who don't really know what it should drive like, I find.

In the 90's we used to cut and turn them and hard chrome the balls, as well as flange the housing and swivel, so we could adjust it where we wanted it, then drill it and dowel it to hold its position with slotted holes [like a Land Rover] Tis allowed changes side to side as well, if required.

We used to flip the arms back then too, on 4" + lifts, but found four link with good shocks gave better travel, handling through articulation range, pinion angle, and travel, when done right. Bump spacing and limiting travel could be an issue with flipping the arms.

I still think a modded X link so it can be pinned to a bush so it drives like it should on the road, would be the next logical step, rather than trying to squeeze in the top 4 link mounts, but ideally, you can only use so much front travel, and the rear is really more important.

Correct caster [well done on the thread to the OP, it should be an inspiration for those who don't want vibe, and good handling/correct caster] I also find using offset bearings for the swivels will allow you to set cambers where you want to make the car more pointy in the front, and reduce understeer, 20-30 min neg camber for 35's and 25-35 minutes for 37's as a rough rule of thumb.

If it has a rear bar and storage, a heavier sway bar on the back can help it keep up with the pointy front then, without effecting articulation, with the extra weight having the leverage over the heavier sway bar.

Good shocks will also help wit the car siting level on the change of direction.

I use 2.5" bypasses in 12.5" front and rear travel we use for the 80/105 bolt on for those who like to fiddle, over the 12" CDC adjustables for compression we have been using, and have found these can have as a dramatic effect as a larger sway bar upgrade, on change of direction, on their own.

A good option for lifted trucks to keep standard bushes in the standard arms, which work pretty well.

Do you find that cut and turns drive better because it corrects the camber?

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Wow, quote the whole post, then ask a one line question. . . . . .

Geometry, I think is the word your looking for, the below might explain it for you, as its a complete box set, you can work out the relationship of the things you ask about.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Then you will have no problem answering the questions? Instead of posting pics

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Then you will have no problem answering the questions? Instead of posting pics

I did,

until you read the box set and understand how they are connected, there is no use going further, as your last post has just driven that point all the way home.

Im sure that light bulb moment will arrive at some point, while your reading the box set.

 

[TheBigBoy]

I was only asking to make you I understood you correctly.

I dont like picking, I really dont. Some things you say are great, others are not.

I read it as your saying cut and turns drive much better due to camber and also tire wear. Which is why I asked (only to be insulted). And the under lieing message of your post/stories "that you are very experinced in suspension". Am I wrong?

I think you should take a good hard look at yourself ESPECIALLY before slinging insults. Every time theres a post thats just absolutely full of crap and will just confuse people - its you posting. Go figure.

MOST caster correction systems (bushes, plates, radius arms) correct the camber automatically. If the caster is right, the camber is too. So how a cut and turns mysteriuosly drive better and corner better is truely a mystery.

Cut and turns have vibs aswell (depending on lift) as the length of the radius arms are much longer than the driveshaft so they dont adjust eqaully.

YOUR flipped arms where no good, and there is NO clearance issues at 4" + lifts.

Why anyone would want to mess with their camber for 35-37" tyres is beyond me. Its set by toyota for a reason, these arent IFS suspension!

Shocks help/aid the understeer. It is controlled by the relationship of the roll centre from front to rear, and the use of sway bars.

Im sure there are plenty of people with a general knowledge of suspesion here scratching their heads at your comments about camber. Keeps your books mate, your going to need them.

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

I
I think you should take a good hard look at yourself ESPECIALLY before slinging insults. Every time theres a post thats just absolutely full of **** and will just confuse people - its you posting. Go figure.

I think your polishing that trophy on your mantle all on your own, no joint winners there......

MOST caster correction systems (bushes, plates, radius arms) correct the camber automatically. If the caster is right, the camber is too. So how a cut and turns mysteriuosly drive better and corner better is truely a mystery.

Why anyone would want to mess with their camber for 35-37" tyres is beyond me. Its set by toyota for a reason, these arent IFS suspension!

So you assume they are fixed and once factory, is the only setting, by saying that. Interesting.

Once you read the box set, factory is A setting, not THE setting

 

[LittleRock80]

AutoCrapAus, have you heard of 'Pirate4x4'? Your pompousness would fit in much better over there. Go away.

Thanks,
Everyone

 

[AutoCraft Aus]

Looks like you got

someone to help polish that trophy now

 

[LittleRock80]

 

[nukegoat]

Thats exactly right. Most are driven daily and do loong miles to a destination. Road handling is just as important as offroad. The same geometry applies to the pavement as to the tracks. A truck that drives as well as stock and has 3/4 of the travel a linked suspension does was the goal. And even then offroading it gives far more feedback to the driver.

"3/4 of the travel a linked suspension does" is a bit of an exaggeration.

Admittedly, that may be generally close to true (though I'd imagine it requires much more loading to get there than a linked set-up) but theoretically a 3-link can be kinematically free. Most are limited by shock length, not bind.

 

[TheBigBoy]

That's correct. Once the shocks are maxed or the coils leave their perch. For what ever size lift your running. Any further travel is null and void. The 3/4 refers to freeness of travel on a rti ramp. I think you would be surprised at how freely it does flex while maintaining its on road characteristics.

 

[Douglas S]

Holy rear steer.

 

[Delancy]

I think you would be surprised at how freely it does flex while maintaining its on road characteristics.

How's the handling without the rear sway, in your honest opinion?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Since when has a properly set up rear sway bar limited travel or articulation?

 

[TheBigBoy]

Since everyone upgrades to the HD whiteline rear sway bar for on road. Even the stock rear sway bar restricts travel. I never drive onroad without the rear Chris. The front got thrown away many years ago though.

 

[Delancy]

Since when has the rear sway bar limited travel or articulation?

It contacts on the axle housing and limits down ~1.5".

Since everyone upgrades to the HD whiteline rear sway bar for on road. Even the stock rear sway bar restricts travel. I never drive onroad without the rear Chris. The front got thrown away many years ago though.

You don't have a sway installed in the pic, right?

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

It contacts on the axle housing and limits down ~1.5".

I corrected my post

IIRC the sway bar contact is the shock bolt not the housing

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Since everyone upgrades to the HD whiteline rear sway bar for on road. Even the stock rear sway bar restricts travel. I never drive onroad without the rear Chris. The front got thrown away many years ago though.

No restriction here