King Springs turned LX470 into a pogo stick :(

[Clunky]

So installing the OEM coils brought it back to pre king coil suspension handling?

Yes, it is back to pre-King handling, which is fine. It's a little soft, even in sport mode, but it is a nice ride and WAY better than the unacceptable pogo stick action with the Kings.

I regret getting the pleaides spheres, but I didn't know about Impex when I bought them. Also, I think Paddo had give his blessing to pleaides spheres at one point, so it seemed like a safe bet. I'll probably get some OEM spheres from Impex at some point, but my ride is just fine for now.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Yes, it is back to pre-King handling, which is fine. It's a little soft, even in sport mode, but it is a nice ride and WAY better than the unacceptable pogo stick action with the Kings.

I regret getting the pleaides spheres, but I didn't know about Impex when I bought them. Also, I think Paddo had give his blessing to pleaides spheres at one point, so it seemed like a safe bet. I'll probably get some OEM spheres from Impex at some point, but my ride is just fine for now.

The Kings might be available for sale again. They aren't up to the task for my heavy ass truck. I know it is not at all the the case with @rvk truck.

 

[Clunky]

They aren't up to the task for my heavy ass truck.

Wow, what are you carrying?

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Wow, what are you carrying?

Ahem: The Story of Blue - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-story-of-blue.1244337/page-11#post-13982700

 

[rvk]

Delete

 

[suprarx7nut]

Yes, it is back to pre-King handling, which is fine. It's a little soft, even in sport mode, but it is a nice ride and WAY better than the unacceptable pogo stick action with the Kings.

I regret getting the pleaides spheres, but I didn't know about Impex when I bought them. Also, I think Paddo had give his blessing to pleaides spheres at one point, so it seemed like a safe bet. I'll probably get some OEM spheres from Impex at some point, but my ride is just fine for now.

Oh wow, I spaced you also had the pleaides globes. I wonder if there's something to that - king springs and pleaides globes may not pay well together. Interesting...

 

[thibaut]

I am struggling to see a direct cause between Pleiades and issue with stiffer springs. These are spheres with a membrane and nitrogen. While the fabric of the membrane will be slightly different and volume may not be exactly the same, I can’t see the cause for incompatibility.
I bave pleiades with aftermarket springs (factory spec though) and spacer and it works perfect.

Perhaps the pleiades are slightly more difficult to bleed properly ?

 

[rvk]

I am struggling to see a direct cause between Pleiades and issue with stiffer springs. These are spheres with a membrane and nitrogen. While the fabric of the membrane will be slightly different and volume may not be exactly the same, I can’t see the cause for incompatibility.
I bave pleiades with aftermarket springs (factory spec though) and spacer and it works perfect.

Perhaps the pleiades are slightly more difficult to bleed properly ?

perhaps it is because of bleeding. But why would it needs to be bled after different springs are installed?
they do have more pressure on them than OEM from my understanding and are advertised to last longer because of it.

 

[rvk]

Alright. New OEM Lexus springs installed.
The truck is no longer a pogo stick. Woohoo!
How odd that the King springs don’t do well on some of our trucks.
thanks @Clunky, @2001LC, @suprarx7nut, @medtro, and @thibaut for your contributions!

 

[suprarx7nut]

Alright. New OEM Lexus springs installed.
The truck is no longer a pogo stick. Woohoo!
How odd that the King springs don’t do well on some of our trucks.
thanks @Clunky, @2001LC, @suprarx7nut and @medtro for your contributions!

That is odd. I think it may be more than a coincidence that you and Clunky both had the Pleaides (sp?) globes as well.

Thanks for the follow up post to confirm!

 

[baltistyle]

While not THE expert, I have just replaced multiple parts, preventively, and this is what I found really missing from this evaluation.

t bar adjustment. Post 9 by 2001LC is the post in this thread that is the most valuable. AHC is very reliant on precise balancing AND working sensors and pumps. Of course the globes/diaphragms could be an issue but as an engineered and machine manufactured part there is less chance of variability than with the truck balancing portion of the result, if you follow my logic. The systems are very logical

 

[2001LC]

I've no experience with "Pleaides" globes. But would think OP would have same "pogo" issue with them, when changing back to OEM coils. If they the cause, wouldn't they!

Kings springs are much stiffer. I've had issue with them when Mpa to high, in that rear sensor needed adjusting vehicle higher to lower pressure. With 30mm spacer on them, I can't get pressure up to 5.6Mpa. Even with rear sensor moved to max height. Unless the vehicle loaded with bumpers, winch, rack, skids, drawers, etc.. Even than, at stock height we lose some dampening, as we ride on stiffer coils. Seems best to run rear Mpa a little too high side ~6 to 6.2Mpa, with a stock weight.

I've just purchased a set of 10mm and 20MM coil spring spacers. Just in case another rig comes to me, wanting a sensor lift with "kings installed". I'm betting 20mm should do the trick at max height, to get Mpa of 5.6 to 5.8Mpa. But may take 10MM, so have them on hand too!.

The King's really seem designed to maintain stock height with a load, without spacers. But naturally we lose some damping once riding on them (lower Mpa). One just need to look at them next to OEM, and can easily see how thick and short compared to OEM they are. They look like short none AHC coils (Land Cruiser coils).

AHC can be tricky. Drive and pressure changes. Adjust and drive, and again pressure may change. They need settling, and fluid temp watched to adjust near same each time. It's how it feels to drive in the end, is all that matters.

 

[Clunky]

The goldilocks ride has eluded me so far. AHC Springs are too soft and King Springs are too stiff. I could add spacers to my current setup with OEM AHC springs to see how the system feels, but I don't have the patience to deal with it right now.

My next step is to try another fluid flush to see what happens.

 

[baltistyle]

The goldilocks ride has eluded me so far. AHC Springs are too soft and King Springs are too stiff. I could add spacers to my current setup with OEM AHC springs to see how the system feels, but I don't have the patience to deal with it right now.

My next step is to try another fluid flush to see what happens.

Have you tried the landcruiser springs? As an on roader with no mods, that’s what I did.

 

[Clunky]

CBT accidentally put LC springs in a few years ago. That also resulted in pogo stick ride. This was with OEM spheres (a few years before my Plaeides spheres).

However, if I remember correctly, there are 2 different height options (about 30mm difference) with LC springs and I had the taller ones.

 

[ramangain]

Let's not forget the tradeoffs of heavier springs with AHC shocks.

Folks will go for the higher spring rate in the rear to get the AHC pressures back in spec. The higher spring rate still exists, and by nature isn't now matched to the AHC/TEMS damping set at the factory. Too high spring damping will cause the spring to be the dominant hardware reacting to the road, leaving the AHC shock/globe to kinda just sit around scratching its own sack.

I see good suspension settings as the (sum of all parts) squared, rather than the sum of (each part squared). That could just be my poor understanding though.

 

[Clunky]

leaving the AHC shock/globe to kinda just sit around scratching its own sack.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[suprarx7nut]

@Clunky When you say pogo stick in this context, how harsh are we talking?

So harsh as in: Something is obviously broken and this is dangerous to drive. No functional car drives this harshly.

or

This slightly less comfortable than a stock car and stock AHC and therefore similar to a normal car.


I'm also realizing I spaced/forgot/failed to see how much weight you've added if your signature is correct. Do you know roughly what that stuff weighs? I've got far less weight (all aluminum) and the King Springs alone were too little spring. I can't imagine you would have good pressures with all that steel armor and anything less than King + 30mm spacers in the rear.

I wish I could see one of these pogo stick cars in person. There have been a few popping up lately and I'd love to dive into one. I've messed around with mine a bit with pressures in and out of spec and I've never had a combination that was as harsh as a normal OEM shock non-AHC 100. It's always still been more supple. Hearing of these minor changes causing what sounds like zero or little damping makes me think there's a failed component (or bad fluid/air) somewhere in the mix.

 

[rvk]

@Clunky When you say pogo stick in this context, how harsh are we talking?

So harsh as in: Something is obviously broken and this is dangerous to drive. No functional car drives this harshly.

or

This slightly less comfortable than a stock car and stock AHC and therefore similar to a normal car.


I'm also realizing I spaced/forgot/failed to see how much weight you've added if your signature is correct. Do you know roughly what that stuff weighs? I've got far less weight (all aluminum) and the King Springs alone were too little spring. I can't imagine you would have good pressures with all that steel armor and anything less than King + 30mm spacers in the rear.

I wish I could see one of these pogo stick cars in person. There have been a few popping up lately and I'd love to dive into one. I've messed around with mine a bit with pressures in and out of spec and I've never had a combination that was as harsh as a normal OEM shock non-AHC 100. It's always still been more supple. Hearing of these minor changes causing what sounds like zero or little damping makes me think there's a failed component (or bad fluid/air) somewhere in the mix.

Hi,

I don’t have any added weight. I have a subwoofer and one of the rear seats, occasionally a few a dogs or landscaping equipment. Typically though I’m the only added weight. I also have an AHC sensor lift of no more than an inch. Still plenty of rake.

The drive was unbearable. Was worst when going below 20 miles an hour. When coming to a stop the truck would bounce up and down rapidly. Going over any bump sounded like the truck was bottoming out. There’s always a chance they were installed incorrectly, but I doubt it.
Something about my trucks weight or globes didn’t meld well with the springs. Sometimes I wonder if the pressure readings coming from the Plaeides spheres need to be at a different level than the OEM spheres.

 

[ramangain]

Has anyone confirmed the nitrogen pressure in the Plaeides globes is the same as OEM?