King Springs turned LX470 into a pogo stick :( (1 Viewer)

[rvk]

* Just found a similar forum post.
going to use it to diagnose some tomorrow before probably swapping back to OEM. *

I had King Spring KTRS-79 installed on my mostly stock, no extra weight added 2000 LX today. Also had new OEM coil spring insulators installed.
I used an independent shop that has high reviews to do the install - I haven't used them before.
I told them to turn the AHC off before lifting or jacking the truck.

My ride is so damn bouncy and harsh now. Any jolt in the road or using the brakes turns the truck into a pogo stick.

They called me after the install and before me picking the truck up, asking me "you want us to disable your AHC permanently?".
This leads me to believe they didn't turn off the AHC first, could that have caused this?
I checked grads from low to high, still 12+.

Rear pressure is at 5.1, low but not insanely low.
Lowering the AHC sensor made the ride worse, raising improved (but still BAD)

I'm thinking I'll have them install the old coils to see if the pogo persists. Maybe I should just install new OEM springs instead.

Could the insulators be the issue?

I'm at a loss. My buddies mostly stock truck has the KTRS-79 and it rides like butter.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[medtro]

Here is another one just like yours.

New King Springs - AHC issue - ECU reset?

Another option if you find yourself routinely having to mess with the airbags is to add 30mm spacers to your old and tired OEM springs. That tends to correct pressures better than new OEM springs and maintains a spring rate very close to OEM. Hmmm, I had actually already bought them but then...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[rvk]

Here is another one just like yours.

New King Springs - AHC issue - ECU reset?

Another option if you find yourself routinely having to mess with the airbags is to add 30mm spacers to your old and tired OEM springs. That tends to correct pressures better than new OEM springs and maintains a spring rate very close to OEM. Hmmm, I had actually already bought them but then...

forum.ih8mud.com

thanks. Not sure how I missed that in my searches.

 

[suprarx7nut]

King springs are probably overkill for stock weight, but it should not ride that poorly. Mine did not.

If you have Techstream a screenshot of the data list would be good.

Rear sensor reacting smoothly?

Curious what you find here. Please keep us updated!

 

[rvk]

one with sensor plugged in, one without.

rear sensor seems to work fine.

your AHC cheat sheet has been a great help, Yota. I used it to dial in my suspension (prior to this incident lol).

 

[rvk]

King springs are probably overkill for stock weight, but it should not ride that poorly. Mine did not.

If you have Techstream a screenshot of the data list would be good.

Rear sensor reacting smoothly?

Curious what you find here. Please keep us updated!

Front / rear wheel step is fluctuating as I drive.
It rides much smoother in high mode. (Higher pressures?)

 

[rvk]

I don’t think there is air in my system. I changed the globes last year, can’t imagine a way any would enter between then and now, unless them lifting it up does that.

Just ordered OEM coils. Will report back if that fixes it.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Front / rear wheel step is fluctuating as I drive.
It rides much smoother in high mode. (Higher pressures?)

Does the height sensor for the rear react smoothly?

Yes, if it rides smoother in high I'm guessing the spring rate is just too much. It's surprising to me that you and @Clunky had such harsh response from the King springs. I switched over to Kings before I had armor on my 06 (knowing that I'd need the Kings once I added all that future weight). The ride was hardly changed at all. A little less plush, but still very supple.

If you're still in the pressure range spec and you get a really harsh ride with Kings, I'm suspicious that there's another contributing factor.

 

[2001LC]

one with sensor plugged in, one without.

rear sensor seems to work fine.

your AHC cheat sheet has been a great help, Yota. I used it to dial in my suspension (prior to this incident lol).



View attachment 2755116

View attachment 2755121

I've never found it necessary to turn AHC off before lifting or replacing springs. Unless for some reason I'm going to start engine.

In your first screenshot with Oil Temp Sensor -22F (Unplugged sensor). Did you raise to H, than lower to L, than raise to N.
In second shot you Accumulator pressure sensor is low, indicating the need to adjust pressures as does front (low) & rear (high) readings.
Balanced I see accumulator ~10.5Mpa

I use new OEM coils from Toyota, on LX or LC. Seems to work just fine, but perhaps a bit stiffer! I also install 30mm spacer with OEM coils. Spacer on OEM coils helps reduce weight carried by AHC at stock height. Which can add life/years to globes.

Your Kings will be fine. They're preferred if carrying extra weight (iron bumper w/swing out, box, trialer, motor bike racks, built rigs, etc,) as helps reduce load on AHC. But you do loose some damping, especial if pressure (Mpa) low (riding more on springs)

I find once AHC system well tuned/adjusted, we don't get much different when we unplugging temp sensor. So your number indicate some adjusting needed. Also noted, your Oil Temp Sensor (OTS) reading of 147F is a tad high. This indicates you've been rapidly raising and lower repeated. With higher temps, I see more gartuation in reservoir and slightly higher pressure "typically". I'll like to see temp closer to ~100 to 115F, while adjusting.

When pressure below factory recommended limit. It means your riding more on spring in rear and T-bars in front, than riding on AHC system. To get pressure up, I'd first look at stance. Is there at least 3/4" rake. If so, crank on t-bar adjusting bolt turning CCW (counter clockwise) to raise front pressure. If cross level is good, crank both T-bars the same amount. If not, CCW high side. Adjust the opposite when pressure high.

We get a bit of teeter totter effect. That is; As we CCW crank on T-bar, pressure will rise in front. It also (often but not always) will rise in rear a tad.

If once you've about 3/4" to 1 1/4" rake with front pressure ~6.9Mpa -+ 0.5. You still find pressure in rear low (below 5.6Mpa). You'll need to adjust rear sensor, raising rear to get pressure higher (riding more on AHC than springs). Which you then will likely need to adjust front sensor also, but that depends on rake. Again, opposite if pressure high.

Once it's all nicely adjusted/balanced and good AHC fluid in system. Count the "H" to "L" graduation at the reservoir. With your new globes and OTS reading ~100f. You should see about 12+, which is great.

Should be noted: I like adjusting with comfort to sport set about middle setting. While driving in sport it should stiffen up suspension, reducing body roll. In confront it should soften ride, but we get more body roll.

BTW: The OM states do not raise and lower AHC in rapid succession, as fluid will get to hot.

Also worth a note: I've found some damage to sensors, like front housing bent. Typically this indicate accident. We must have all sensor in good working order.

 

[Clunky]

It's surprising to me that you and @Clunky had such harsh response from the King springs.

Agree it is odd that some people feel minimal difference while a couple of us have experienced the pogo stick. I gave up and went back to my old AHC springs simply out of a lack of time to keep chasing down the problem. I just ordered more fluid to do another flush of the system, but I sold the Kings so I won't be able to add much data to the conversation now.

 

[rvk]

Agree it is odd that some people feel minimal difference while a couple of us have experienced the pogo stick. I gave up and went back to my old AHC springs simply out of a lack of time to keep chasing down the problem. I just ordered more fluid to do another flush of the system, but I sold the Kings so I won't be able to add much data to the conversation now.

Would you happen to be uses Pleiades spheres / globes? I am. Wondering what the common denominator is.
Your ride went 100% back to normal after putting the old springs back on?

 

[Clunky]

Would you happen to be uses Pleiades spheres / globes? I am. Wondering what the common denominator is.

Yes, I am!

 

[rvk]

Yes, I am!

Is your truck a bit jerky when lowering / raising? Especially at the end of the lowering sequence?

 

[rvk]

Does the height sensor for the rear react smoothly?

Yes, if it rides smoother in high I'm guessing the spring rate is just too much. It's surprising to me that you and @Clunky had such harsh response from the King springs. I switched over to Kings before I had armor on my 06 (knowing that I'd need the Kings once I added all that future weight). The ride was hardly changed at all. A little less plush, but still very supple.

If you're still in the pressure range spec and you get a really harsh ride with Kings, I'm suspicious that there's another contributing factor.

By reacting smoothly do you mean does it change the height of the rear? Yes, it does.
I’m thinking it has something to do with our aftermarket Pleiades spheres.

 

[suprarx7nut]

By reacting smoothly do you mean does it change the height of the rear? Yes, it does.
I’m thinking it has something to do with our aftermarket Pleiades spheres.

I mean does the value do what you would expect it to do? Oftentimes when a rear sensor goes bad you will see height values jump around erratically. When the sensor goes bad the system doesn't know how to properly damp the system and you normally end up with a very harsh pogo ride.

The aftermarket spheres do present an unknown but I would be surprised if they weren't compatible with the King springs.

If you can manage to start the data log and log the sensor heights and damping values that might reveal something strange.

 

[Clunky]

Is your truck a bit jerky when lowering / raising? Especially at the end of the lowering sequence?

Yes it is, but it improved significantly after my last bleed of the system. I'm going to do another bleed and see if that eliminates the "jerky" motion. I don't think the system was ever properly bled when the spheres were installed.

 

[rvk]

I mean does the value do what you would expect it to do? Oftentimes when a rear sensor goes bad you will see height values jump around erratically. When the sensor goes bad the system doesn't know how to properly damp the system and you normally end up with a very harsh pogo ride.

The aftermarket spheres do present an unknown but I would be surprised if they weren't compatible with the King springs.

If you can manage to start the data log and log the sensor heights and damping values that might reveal something strange.

Oh ok, I'll adjust the sensor tonight and see if it changes the values correctly.
The truck is currently at Toyota getting new front control arms ha.... was supposed to be an exciting week of new suspension components.
Will be odd having new control arms and a bouncing rear end until the OEM springs come in. Toyota will install the new Lexus springs for me.
Probably gonna get new spheres now at some point too, as they seem to be more available now at a decent prince than the past.

 

[rvk]

Yes it is, but it improved significantly after my last bleed of the system. I'm going to do another bleed and see if that eliminates the "jerky" motion. I don't think the system was ever properly bled when the spheres were installed.

Interesting. I'll bleed mine tonight (ugh) and see if it helps.

 

[rvk]

Yes it is, but it improved significantly after my last bleed of the system. I'm going to do another bleed and see if that eliminates the "jerky" motion. I don't think the system was ever properly bled when the spheres were installed.

So installing the OEM coils brought it back to pre king coil suspension handling?

 

[suprarx7nut]

Oh ok, I'll adjust the sensor tonight and see if it changes the values correctly.
The truck is currently at Toyota getting new front control arms ha.... was supposed to be an exciting week of new suspension components.
Will be odd having new control arms and a bouncing rear end until the OEM springs come in. Toyota will install the new Lexus springs for me.
Probably gonna get new spheres now at some point too, as they seem to be more available now at a decent prince than the past.

For the sensor response check you can just watch the values as you raise/lower via the switch or raise/lower slightly with a jack. Dont need to mess with the sensor itself, unless you want to.