yjeff
AZ to Alaska to Argentina in Land Cruisers '12-'16
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Threads
- 58
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- 509
- Location
- Scottsdale, AZ
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- www.overlandtheworld.com
Thanks, We are headed down the Pacific Coast of mainland Mexico this week
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Thanks, We are headed down the Pacific Coast of mainland Mexico this week
If they put up a sign that is the same type as all the other signs and it is in a network of Forest Service roads, why wouldn't 9011R be considered a Forest Service road? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, just a bit confused. I don't think it makes any sense to say "it has to be on the printed map" as I seriously doubt they keep those printed maps up to date.
I just don't see how the forest service could put a sign up on a road, then try to claim that it isn't a forest service road.
I'll try to stop by a forest service station later if I have time this afternoon.
I just don't see how the forest service could put a sign up on a road, then try to claim that it isn't a forest service road.
I'll try to stop by a forest service station later if I have time this afternoon.
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My first run with @Pitch a couple of years ago was bone stock with 20 year saggy LX springs and street tires. I didn't have any issues except for a nice hitch strike about 20 yards off the starting line in Sedona crossing a big ditch. Easy peasy....@Brices did it with a 100 and a trailer.
Saddletramp
GOLD Star
Folks, my vote, if it counts at all, is that we alter our camping destination slightly to adhere to the FS rules and guidelines. Once I have a current map and locate an appropriate site we will pot it up.
Rudster and I are headed up tomorrow afternoon. We will seek a compliant locale and then make way to a spot to send our GPS coordinates.
Pitch, when can you make it out there to give us some added guidance ? I am looking for another alternative where the group comes up off of Casner trail and affords us some shade.
Rudster and I are headed up tomorrow afternoon. We will seek a compliant locale and then make way to a spot to send our GPS coordinates.
Pitch, when can you make it out there to give us some added guidance ? I am looking for another alternative where the group comes up off of Casner trail and affords us some shade.
I think that since the road is marked and posted by the Forest Service, that it meets the legal requirements for travel and camping. The fact that it's not on a map does not mean much- maps can't show everything. The pictures seem show that the camping area is clear of vegetation too. But if someone talks to a Ranger before hand, then we will know for sure whether it's permissible or not, and then we can make a change if necessary.
Saddletramp
GOLD Star
@Living in the Past when are you headed over?
Dimples
I owe my soul to the TRD store.
- Thread starter
- #269
If I were still leading I would change the campsite just to error on the side of caution. I hate changing plans as mush as anyone, but if there is this much debate as to the legalities of the site it is probably a bad idea to camp there. An officer is probably going to use the posted map as his reference point for this anyways, whether it is accurate or not.
Last year a few of us found some very good remote camp sites on the way out but after reading the posts above how does one know if they are legal?
As the run leader in place of @Dimples I am going to leave it to the descression of @Saddletramp to find our camping site and post coordinates. I beileave the camp site from October would be fine but I would like @Saddletramp to make that decision and to choose another camp site if he sees fit.
Let's leave the talk about this run toward organizing food and letting me know who will be on my run or @Clunky run and stop discussing the fire restrictions. We will meet the guidelines of the fire restrictions to the best we can to stay legal. Thank you.
Let's leave the talk about this run toward organizing food and letting me know who will be on my run or @Clunky run and stop discussing the fire restrictions. We will meet the guidelines of the fire restrictions to the best we can to stay legal. Thank you.
Living in the Past
SILVER Star
Fair enough wish I could say I was just giving you my option but I'm not. I remember the nightmare a member went thru getting a ticket for crossing State Trust Land and not having a permit.
My quick trip to the valley yesterday was to take one our dogs to the vet. Blood work shows kidney failure so will be out for this weekend.
My first run with @Pitch a couple of years ago was bone stock with 20 year saggy LX springs and street tires. I didn't have any issues except for a nice hitch strike about 20 yards off the starting line in Sedona crossing a big ditch. Easy peasy....@Brices did it with a 100 and a trailer.
I remember seeing pictures of Brice's 100 with trailer on that trail. I believe his 100 was lifted though. I am a rookie and prefer something not stock on trail.
anyone in the east valley want to meet up Sat AM to caravan up to the Sedona Safeway? Or, we can meet up on I17 somewhere as a larger group like the Chevron at the Carefree Hwy and i17 interchange. That is if 17 is open, seems they are battling a large brush fire and they have closed the highway for now.
To answer some of the comments from above, to be a legal road, it MUST appear on the black and white Motor Vehicle Use Map of the Coconino NF, or it's equivalent on the Avenza app which I referenced earlier. These maps are free, and are issued and updated yearly.
The presence of other tire tracks, or the presence of a USFS sign giving it a number mean nothing. Some major roads have been left off the map, and are now illegal. Other, remote, obscure two-tracks are legal. If it is not on the map as a designated legal route, you should not be on it in any motorized capacity. These designations are routinely ignored... like all the time by regular folks. Sometimes they are ignored intentionally, usually through ignorance. However, the law is the law.
These rules differ between different FS entities, but are fairly consistent in the Coconino, Prescott, and Kaibab NF's. You could probably travel and camp wherever you want, and never be caught. The entire Coconino NF has only 2 LEO's, 1 for Prescott, any one for the entire north and south Kaibab. Chances are slim that any LEO would be there at the same time as our group. But, while to have a group camp on an illegal road is bad (and I am guilty here too) to do so during a high to extreme fire risk season is foolish and irresponsible.
AZ Game and Fish rangers often ignore the FS rules (state vs Fed pissing contest). All the other roads on this route (except 9011R), are legal and open for business. But many, many roads that you encounter in the forest (I estimate 60%) are no longer legal routes. This is a departure from what many of you are accustomed to in the Tonto NF, and BLM land.
FWIW, I can appreciate the rules in some areas, but largely feel that they are way, way too restrictive. I even went to several meetings, and wrote letters when the Travel Management Plan and the subsequent MVUM were in the works about 10 years ago.
The presence of other tire tracks, or the presence of a USFS sign giving it a number mean nothing. Some major roads have been left off the map, and are now illegal. Other, remote, obscure two-tracks are legal. If it is not on the map as a designated legal route, you should not be on it in any motorized capacity. These designations are routinely ignored... like all the time by regular folks. Sometimes they are ignored intentionally, usually through ignorance. However, the law is the law.
These rules differ between different FS entities, but are fairly consistent in the Coconino, Prescott, and Kaibab NF's. You could probably travel and camp wherever you want, and never be caught. The entire Coconino NF has only 2 LEO's, 1 for Prescott, any one for the entire north and south Kaibab. Chances are slim that any LEO would be there at the same time as our group. But, while to have a group camp on an illegal road is bad (and I am guilty here too) to do so during a high to extreme fire risk season is foolish and irresponsible.
AZ Game and Fish rangers often ignore the FS rules (state vs Fed pissing contest). All the other roads on this route (except 9011R), are legal and open for business. But many, many roads that you encounter in the forest (I estimate 60%) are no longer legal routes. This is a departure from what many of you are accustomed to in the Tonto NF, and BLM land.
FWIW, I can appreciate the rules in some areas, but largely feel that they are way, way too restrictive. I even went to several meetings, and wrote letters when the Travel Management Plan and the subsequent MVUM were in the works about 10 years ago.
I can be out there between 10-11 am if you would like. I have some other areas to show those interested.
I would download the Avenza app. Laurin and I used it, data-free on cellphones during our April trip.
Sorry to hear about the dogs. Hope all goes well
Cleo and I have decided to drive up Saturday morning to meet at Safeway for the run. We can meet up i17 area on the way up. Planning to leave out house near 101 and 51 at 7am.
Ok who is still planning on getting up to camp Friday? I will be up there by noon or so. Don't have a GPS that can track a new area and cell service is spotty even with Verizon.
Saddletramp
GOLD Star
Rudster, cruddz and I are departing the valley at about 1pm. We should be at the turn off by airport Rd at about 3pm or so. @Pitch we will call you in cell to see where you are and then travel towards the area.
Plan is to camp legally and we will round up any stragglers at the original site. I will send gps coordinates in the late afternoon of the camp site location. We will update this thread with info once we establish a site.
Hope to see everyone there
Plan is to camp legally and we will round up any stragglers at the original site. I will send gps coordinates in the late afternoon of the camp site location. We will update this thread with info once we establish a site.
Hope to see everyone there
