How would you know for sure anything in your second point is true when waiting for a kit that has yet to be made or tested? Is TT going give you the math that he used to figure this setup so you can confirm it’s not a mess?
Builds “It’s only an axle swap and a motor swap” aka AK2AL aka Dream Build (4 Viewers)
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Regarding simplification, The 80 suspension has been successfully grafted onto other chassis with minimal issues. As long as you keep the mounting points within relative proximity to each other as they came off the 80 chassis, the math should be simplified.
I'm not sure one can argue it is a better option, mostly just an option. I already have some 80 parts around that I can likely use. In the end, it will still be a similar amount of work and will need to be dialed in to fit each unique application.
I have been pondering how to improve the ride on our 55 and had actually considered an 80 chassis swap. When TT put this out there, and with a few other things that have aligned in my specific situation, it makes this a good option to consider.
Really comes down to preference and situation. For me it's an option on the table. I have a set of 4" Alcans that I have been sitting on as well.
I'm not sure one can argue it is a better option, mostly just an option. I already have some 80 parts around that I can likely use. In the end, it will still be a similar amount of work and will need to be dialed in to fit each unique application.
I have been pondering how to improve the ride on our 55 and had actually considered an 80 chassis swap. When TT put this out there, and with a few other things that have aligned in my specific situation, it makes this a good option to consider.
Really comes down to preference and situation. For me it's an option on the table. I have a set of 4" Alcans that I have been sitting on as well.
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At the end of the day its preference and what the rig will be used for. Me personally... I'd never run a 3 link for a daily driver.. just me.
For guys wanting a nice ride (DD and highway) and be fully capable offroad this kit has it.
If the rig is a fully dedicated rock crawler and that's its main purpose.. I'd refer someone to a 3 link design from another company.
As far as setup. The 80 to 60 has 100% referenced holes and cut outs/ alignment plates to set all major components. Once I get the 55 set it will have these same features so the guess work/math is taken out and is simply align things and start welding.
EX. for the shock/coil bucket assy. position and angle are set by this alignment plate.
J
For guys wanting a nice ride (DD and highway) and be fully capable offroad this kit has it.
If the rig is a fully dedicated rock crawler and that's its main purpose.. I'd refer someone to a 3 link design from another company.
As far as setup. The 80 to 60 has 100% referenced holes and cut outs/ alignment plates to set all major components. Once I get the 55 set it will have these same features so the guess work/math is taken out and is simply align things and start welding.
EX. for the shock/coil bucket assy. position and angle are set by this alignment plate.
J
Cool, so you have the anti-dive, roll axis and roll center numbers for the 60 kit you built, what are they and will the 55 kit be similar?
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If you want to pay for it and supply an original non-worn suspension for R&D we can do it.
Let me know your exact weights (corner to corner and side to side, lift height expectations front to rear and weight to lift above CL (stock height) of your 55 or whatever your building, exact wheel BS/OS and if you will be running a wheel spacers (if so, what brand and the exact countersink face depth off of CL) will you be running any components over stock weights or under stock weights. This means bumpers, sliders, gear, etc.. and I can put the dims and weights into my partnering companies computer parameters and they'll split something out for you for a purchase of the kit.
As you know, throwing a fat ass chick in a spare seat changes everything. If you want a Ferrari ride/specs and suspension expectations you can certainly pay for it... This coming from a guy that questions this kit vs. a 3 link that NO ONE would ever consider these specs...... yeah I'm a dick, but you questioned it.
But for a simple 69$ alignment the numbers for caster and camber that this kit produces are within Toyota specs.
Have a nice day.
J
RUSH55
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&
I would hope so but my question was have you done it.
When you said “the guess work/math is taken out and is simply align things and start welding.” You left the impression that the “math” was done and your kit is good to go. Are you suggesting that if I wanted a kit that is good to go that would be a different kit and I would need to pay for the R&D?
Some of this is clearly over my head but specifically wouldn’t the mounts you make have more to do with the instant center and anti-dive than wheel spacers?
I’m going to be honest here and yes your answers to questions about your product make you sound like a dick.
So when I asked why this is a good option over say something else I got three answers.
1) It’s a super Toyota nerd move. 2) I'm not sure one can argue it is a better option, mostly just an option. And 3) weld it on and be happy or pay me more money and tell me about the fat chick sitting next to you and I’ll ask my “partnering companies computer parameters and they'll split something out for you for a purchase of the kit”
This started as me being genuinely curious about your kit and thinking the benefits would be obvious and someone could easily explain the engineering behind the benefits, clearly it's not that simple so I'll move on.
Hey this has been fun and I sincerely hope you are having a fantastic day too!!!
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All above has been completed on a 60 and is documented. Same plans for other series if there is enough interest. There are several 55 guys that are wanting this kit and some have chosen to proceed on their own with "simple" alignments on their own without dialed in brackets and alignment plates. I will release as a DIY kit but until it has been documented by me, its on the buyer to do their own research and install.
I get several emails and comments from computer armchair pricks on a weekly basis. When someone throws out a night and day comparison question (especially when they know the parameters you threw out after the post) and then requests information that costs 1000s of dollars to achieve, you automatically fall into that category with me and many other vendors on this and other forums.
No I will not release "free" R&D information to anyone. Go ask Toyota or XYZ company for that exact info and they won't even reply to you. I'm not Toyota by any means but my R&D is just as valuable to me.
And that was 4/5 answers/replies to the above, not 3.. but it's all about details; right.. Your reputation proceeds you. Funny, after you chimed in on this thread I quickly received two messages from other piggie members saying "watch your step he's a dickhead" and "get ready for questions that will lead nowhere".
2 minutes of my life lost. Me being a dick.......... YEP, another added to the IGNORE LIST.
Cheers
J
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PabloCruise
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+ Surboard!
PabloCruise
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PabloCruise
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No value add...
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This single sentence answered my original question, thank you.
And I’ve spent several $100.000 in the last few years buying parts for projects and if a vender can’t answer a simple question about their product without acting like a prick they usually don’t know the answer or their in over their head and I move on to the next. FYI Thanks for letting me know where you stand, if you knew the answer you wouldn’t have said that info cost 1000s of dollars to achieve because we both know it doesn’t and if you remove me from your ignore list I’ll send you a link to the free online calculator.
If lead to nowhere you mean specific questions about a product you make like what is the benefit of your kit or have you addressed the suspension mounting points and retained the Factory locations in relation to the chassis instant center then you got me. Yep I’m that dickhead they warned you about.
Based on the text he and I were having during your rant I’m guessing he’s not mad at you, don’t worry big guy it’s going to be okay and we’ll all be laughing about this in the morning.
gonzopancho
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Some of those tools are worth what you paid.
That said, I just hired a MSME from Iowa St, who, prior to heading to college, was an ASME Certified Master Mechanic at a Ford dealership there in Ames. He has a weekend hobby ... modeling dynamic suspension systems (no sh*t, that was his answer during the interview.)
I'd be happy to put him on a task of independent validation of the setup, in-part because:
- I'm interested in the coil-sprung setup for the 55 I just bought (but have yet to go get) from @TachedOutOffRoad.
- He'd be interested.
- I'm interested in the answer, just in case I ever road-trip the result.
- I just happen to have
- a set of low-mile (137K) FJ62 axles, (that came out from under the donor for this FJ142 in the making, which I've owned since 2006, as well as
- a set of ARB-locked 3rds w/4.88s
- Nitro chromoly inner axles and birfs, etc for FJ62 axles that are destined for same.
The other pig (yes, I'm about to have 4, and 3 of them aren't in Texas yet, FML) is getting a full fjz80 frame/axle swap.)
FJ55: the addiction. FML.
p.s. most will agree, I'm the biggest a*hole on mud, so...
- Thread starter
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Hey! It’s my birthday and I’m headed to fly a helicopter!
Catch up with y’all this evening!
Catch up with y’all this evening!
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PabloCruise
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RUSH55
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Happy bday mang!
Think we should be able to have a civil conversation without the need for name-calling, yes? And while I didn't know about any of the terms prior to JMac throwing them out there, I can understand the basic jist without looking them up in an engineering dictionary. However, wouldn't most of those actions and rates/numbers be a result of the actual spring rate and construction as it relates to a given body type and weight. I mean, we could see the numbers on a sheet of paper, but without having an actual seat-of-the-pants feel to relate to, how significant is it, and how much does a simple swap of springs go to changing both the numbers and feel? Personally, I'm not really into coils. Too many arms and bushings compared to what old school leafs can achieve. But even coil rigs run anti-sway bars. How much do they affect those aforementioned characteristics?
Think we should be able to have a civil conversation without the need for name-calling, yes? And while I didn't know about any of the terms prior to JMac throwing them out there, I can understand the basic jist without looking them up in an engineering dictionary. However, wouldn't most of those actions and rates/numbers be a result of the actual spring rate and construction as it relates to a given body type and weight. I mean, we could see the numbers on a sheet of paper, but without having an actual seat-of-the-pants feel to relate to, how significant is it, and how much does a simple swap of springs go to changing both the numbers and feel? Personally, I'm not really into coils. Too many arms and bushings compared to what old school leafs can achieve. But even coil rigs run anti-sway bars. How much do they affect those aforementioned characteristics?
bobm
WTF, WTF, WTF!!!!
LEAF SPRINGS are so simple 
Yes sir I believe you are correct.
The basic jist of “Front Anti-Dive” vehicles with low anti-dive suspension geometry (under 100%) can experience excessive nose dive under hard braking, not a big deal with slow off road but on something you plan to drive at highway speeds you should be aware of what this number is and try to keep it around “100% anti-dive”.
The other two, “roll axis and roll center” are what give you that “actual seat-of-the-pants feel” and yes the seat of the pants feel can also be tweaked with springs and sway bars. If setting some new suspension up from scratch on something narrow and tall like a pig it wouldn’t hurt to know what these numbers are and try to move or at the least keep them in your favor verses move them in an undesirable direction.
I agree with you that a good set of leafs setup well are going to be hard to beat, too many ways for this deal to go bad and without the ability to ask questions about how the datum points on the mounts were setup I wouldn’t touch this kit.
