isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

[Dougal]

I am in the middle of my swap. I have some fears about the power of the 4bd and the weight of the 80.

It all depends on what you're expecting. It'll be far quicker than the HZ powered 80's and similar to the HD-T powered ones with stock fuelling.
I've never run the later style turbo with no wastegate but I do have one in my parts bin so I don't know when they build boost or how much.
But any turbo with a T3 flange will fit the later factory manifold, I have adapter designs to bolt a T25 or T28 straight on as well.

 

[rtarh2o]

Hayes167, that sounds great, can't wait to hear about it. I really love my 6.2 but I have a 97 that I am getting anxious to do something with!
Keep us posted.
Rusty

 

[hayes167]

hmm, i was able to remove pump without dropping tank; access port under carpet.

Yea I saw that after I dropped it. I looked in the fsm at fuel tank and it did not provide that much info.

Dougal - Thanks for the encouragement. I'll be happy with HD-T stock power.

Andrew - I'd love to see pic of how you fabed your motor mounts.

 

[88tlc]

Hello, i've been driving around my 4bd1t powered fj40 for about a month now and finally got to putting in my front drive shaft. i have about 1 1/2" to 2 " between the front drive flange at the pumpkin and the oil pan. well its not enough because it hit, now i have a big dent in the pan.

I saw that 88tlc did some work to his pan. I was wondering how much room is in the right front corner of the sump. is the oil pump or pick up near there? 88tlc how much did you find a new (or used ) oil pan for? My 40 is now my daily driver so i was thinking about getting a used pan to modify.

any advice would help thanks?

there is plenty of room on the injection pump side and near the front to modify the pan. i modified the front corner of the pan (IP side), and moved the drain to the turbo side, and then also ripped the pan down the length, and formed the IP side with a bit of an angle to help with front axle clearance.

the oil volume in the pan is now reduced a bit, so I would not get too crazy with reshaping. but some room was needed to add some travel. I have now modified my bumpstops to bump before hitting the pan.

 

[88tlc]

first road trip - Park city to Jackson WY

the first road trip test run on the FJ 62, and the isuzu 4BD1T.

Its about 200 miles one way, with an assortment of long valleys, and passes with 10% grades. a little bit of everything.

The landcruiser made it there and back, with no issues. got 22- 23 mpg. So I would call it a success, but I am still not happy with the performance.

In order to cruise 65 - 75 mph i am at 1000 deg (post turbo), 4psi, and approx 1700-1800 rpm.

on the 10% grades, I had to go into 2nd gear. this just seems undiesel like. It lacks that torque and power to reliably handle the hills. my passat 1.9tdi would haul ass up that in 5th, maybe 4th. dodge cummins 5.9 would bark up it in OD. the 3FE old engine would likely have gotten up the hill at a higher speed. i had an old VW van that would make it up that hill and have to be in 2nd.

It feels like the engine is under turboed, and it is over geared. 700r4, with overdrive, and overdrive lockup, lugs the engine at a low RPM. the low rpms then make low boost. if I can get it up to a higher speed, it starts to respond to throttle with power, but at 75-80. at that point however the egts are too high.

Timing? adjust IP pump timing? I may need to play with this a little.

regear it? swap out the 4.11s with lower gearing?

turbo - I need more turbo. can the 4bd2t wastegated turbos fit on the 4bd1t?

 

[88tlc]

He is turning about 2000 rpm at 65. I have the same 700r4, 4.11's and 33" tires. I have a tiny tach installed and 1800 rpm is about 60 mph, seems like I am turning about 2030 at about 67 mph with my 6.2 diesel.
Hope you get the power thing worked out, I really think that could be a great engine, seems like a 3.9 with turbo should be more than enough. I am sure my 6.2 would be in 3rd gear going up a grade at 6,000 ft as well.
Good luck
Rusty

Some questions I have about knowing the rpms at speed.

1. RPM - accurately calibrating the true RPM's? not sure how I can accurately adjust this? so i can not confidently say WHAT rpms i am running.

2. electronic lockup - do you have yours connected? when I did not have mine connected, it was running higher rpms, perhaps 2000, but with the lockup, it is reduced by 250 rpm. I do not think it is running at 2000 rpm, when I am in overdrive, and lockup.

3. speed - are you compensating for the tires? I have used a GPS to confirm my quick adjustment for speed, a +10% factor. that jives with the tire size difference too.

 

[Dougal]

the first road trip test run on the FJ 62, and the isuzu 4BD1T.

Its about 200 miles one way, with an assortment of long valleys, and passes with 10% grades. a little bit of everything.

The landcruiser made it there and back, with no issues. got 22- 23 mpg. So I would call it a success, but I am still not happy with the performance.

In order to cruise 65 - 75 mph i am at 1000 deg (post turbo), 4psi, and approx 1700-1800 rpm.

on the 10% grades, I had to go into 2nd gear. this just seems undiesel like. It lacks that torque and power to reliably handle the hills. my passat 1.9tdi would haul ass up that in 5th, maybe 4th. dodge cummins 5.9 would bark up it in OD. the 3FE old engine would likely have gotten up the hill at a higher speed. i had an old VW van that would make it up that hill and have to be in 2nd.

It feels like the engine is under turboed, and it is over geared. 700r4, with overdrive, and overdrive lockup, lugs the engine at a low RPM. the low rpms then make low boost. if I can get it up to a higher speed, it starts to respond to throttle with power, but at 75-80. at that point however the egts are too high.

Timing? adjust IP pump timing? I may need to play with this a little.

regear it? swap out the 4.11s with lower gearing?

turbo - I need more turbo. can the 4bd2t wastegated turbos fit on the 4bd1t?

Have you got a boost gauge, if so what's it reading?
How does it sound at idle, is it smoother or noisier (the dak-dak-dak noise) than the ones on youtube? The noise at idle gives a good idea of where your injection timing is.

If you've got the later style manifold (flange on an angle) then it's a standard T3 mount which fits a whole range of turbos.

Cruising at 100km/h these are my results in a 2.3ton fulltime 4wd rangerover.
2000rpm
430-450C EGT's preturbo
8-9psi boost.
12-13psi exhaust manifold pressure

 

[marting]

I would say you are geared to high.. 1700 rpm at 110km/h is low.
I only have a 4 speed on my HJ60. But I'm guessing a 5 speed would rev. about 2200 in 110km/h.

 

[RHINO]

88tlc, not sure what to think here. i want more turbo at some point but mine sure seems to be doing better than yours. i dont have 10% grades to test, but on a 7% i can hold 4th. ive been loaded pretty heavy and pulling the trailer up 7%, i deemed 3rd good at a couple spots where it seems steeper but i have to make myself slow down a bit to do it otherwise its at that point where i should shift. i kinda need a 3.5 gear and i think thats where 4:56 comes in.

i'm running 37's on 4:10 gears.

i'm doing 1900-2100rpm at cruise(63-65mph).

i dont know much about timing, i have a diesel guy that i like and he helped me with a spendy tool to check and adjust mine, it did seem to change the sound a bit and the performance eh? hard to tell.

ive got the fuel screw right at the point where i get a puff of smoke on hard throttle. but i dont yet have an EGT so i dont want to fiddle with it too much.

i know it can get better but i'm quite happy with mine, i wonder where yours is falling? i cant imagine your 60 is much heavier than my 55, its a porker.

 

[cruiserbrett]

Rhino,
I am going to be putting a 4bd1t in my 72 FJ55, and wondered how you were geared? I think the h55f is a .85:1 OD, what is the OD of the r151 tranny you are using? How do you like the 1900-2000 rpm at cruise speed?

Do you have any closeups of the rear of the engine to firewall clearance, and also of the radiator/fan/front of engine area? Trying to decide if its possible to squeeze an intercooler in there?

 

[rtarh2o]

8tlc, I am running 285/75 tires and have the speedo correction gear from Slee. I also have GPS and it is right on. My tach is a Tiny Tach, it is great, hooks up to an injector line and uses a 12V input. I am pretty sure I am running right around 2,200 rpm at 70 mph.(can't remember right off the top of my head but will drive it down the road if you want to know) The electronic lock-up is installed. I try to keep the speed around 65 to keep the rpm down, apparently the 6.2 has the best mileage around 1,800 rpm. I have gotten 20 mpg, think I can do better but I really like feel of the engine around 2,000 rpm, it actually will accelerate at a decent pace. Since I now have a 40 gallon auxiliary tank and am running WVO I am not as concerned about the mileage.
Rusty

 

[88tlc]

isuzu boost

88tlc, not sure what to think here. i want more turbo at some point but mine sure seems to be doing better than yours. i dont have 10% grades to test, but on a 7% i can hold 4th. ive been loaded pretty heavy and pulling the trailer up 7%, i deemed 3rd good at a couple spots where it seems steeper but i have to make myself slow down a bit to do it otherwise its at that point where i should shift. i kinda need a 3.5 gear and i think thats where 4:56 comes in.

i'm running 37's on 4:10 gears.

i'm doing 1900-2100rpm at cruise(63-65mph).

i dont know much about timing, i have a diesel guy that i like and he helped me with a spendy tool to check and adjust mine, it did seem to change the sound a bit and the performance eh? hard to tell.

ive got the fuel screw right at the point where i get a puff of smoke on hard throttle. but i dont yet have an EGT so i dont want to fiddle with it too much.

i know it can get better but i'm quite happy with mine, i wonder where yours is falling? i cant imagine your 60 is much heavier than my 55, its a porker.

thanks for the data points. a 7% grade with a trailer, still in 4th is awesome, i will take that! i kind of expected that kind of diesel power.

was curious what your boost looks like at cruise? I only get like 3- 4 psi, seems like it is too low. I want to try and a 4bd2t turbo, i am hoping it is a easy swap. seems like perhaps my turbo is not generating enough boost, which results in low power, rich fuel ratio, and high egts?

 

[Dougal]

My vehicle at 2.5t all up can pull up an 6.75 deg (is this11.8%) slope at 80km/h in 4th gear.
That works out at 75kw at the wheels at 2000rpm.

I'm running 20psi boost, no intercooler and fuelling to deliver 750C EGT's at that boost.
It's fun to drive.

 

[RHINO]

cruiserbrett, an intercooler will have lots of room, i have the engine off the firewall a good 5-6" and about 4" from the fan to radiator.
my overdrive should be .83. the cruise rpm is very good, it really quiets the engine down. if you dont count the turbo whine its much quieter than the 2F at speed.

88TLC, i still dont have a boost guage, so i dont know my pressure. i listen to the turbo at different ranges though and can say that at cruise its right on its mark. right where you can hear it singing and when you step on the pedal it perks right up and pulls pretty strong (for what it is).

 

[zaksl17]

88tlc thanks for the pics of the oil pan, I extended the bump stops for now until i get another pan to modify.

In my 40 i have the 4bd1t connected to a built 4l60E ( with Compushift) to my stock transfer. The little diesel is perfect in the 40 but i think it would under power any heavy rig. I cruise up 10% grades at 65 but i can't keep the converter locked. The low end torque is great, I've only been brave enough for full throttle start once and my tires broke free on the shift to second.

I don't have pyro, boost , or tach yet so i can't give numbers. Overall i like the diesel better than the chevy V8 I had, its quieter and less heat in the cab. I just wish it had a little more top end power and a little better fuel mileage. I like the auto but this engine might work better (better economy) with a manual.

When I get all the gauges in I'll start turning up the fuel screw and see what happens. I have other details to fix first. For now I'm happy to be driving it everyday to work.

 

[88tlc]

need more turbo....

thanks dougal for your data point. how are you getting 20psi of boost? are you seriously running the engine at 750 deg C? that is like 1550 deg F? would you recommend running that high on a stock engine?

you other guys, we need to get you some gages!

was looking at the 4bd1t turbo, and the 4bd2t with wastegate turbo.

some images attached from some for sale on ebay, the flange and fittings look to be the same. can anyone confirm this?

does anyone have a 4bd2t with the wastegate turbo running? was curious what kind of boost it can run, and what kind of boost you can get.

I would like to try more boost, and if needed just adjust the waste gate, or optimize for 15-20 psi, and see what it can do to the 4b1t.

is the intercooler option buy you much power?

 

[Dougal]

thanks dougal for your data point. how are you getting 20psi of boost? are you seriously running the engine at 750 deg C? that is like 1550 deg F? would you recommend running that high on a stock engine?

I'm using a smaller turbo than stock, mine is a wastegated T25 with a 0.49 A/R exhaust housing. The stock turbo is a TB25 which has exactly the same compressor but a bigger exhaust housing and no wastegate.

I have been running those temps for the last 8000km and see no damage. I've had the occasional excursion past too. Most people put excessive safety factors on their EGT levels.

was looking at the 4bd1t turbo, and the 4bd2t with wastegate turbo.

some images attached from some for sale on ebay, the flange and fittings look to be the same. can anyone confirm this?

Hey that's new, I have never seen that turbo before. The 4BD2's I've seen had no wastegate. Yes it's the same flange and core.
You'll be able to push close to 20psi with the stock turbo, but only at higher rpm. Probably suffering smoke and high EGT's below that or poor response if you have the boost compensator set to deal with the smoke and EGT's. This is why I went smaller, I have 20psi boost from ludicrously low revs.

Yes an intercooler is a good idea, I haven't yet fitted one. Partly due to space, mostly due to sloth.

 

[ozwallaby]

thanks dougal for your data point. how are you getting 20psi of boost? are you seriously running the engine at 750 deg C? that is like 1550 deg F? would you recommend running that high on a stock engine?

Don't forget Dougals ex temp is taken BEFORE the turbine so gives a higher reading than AFTER the turbine.. this is just in case you don't know how Dougal has his pyro set up.....

 

[Dougal]

Don't forget Dougals ex temp is taken BEFORE the turbine so gives a higher reading than AFTER the turbine.. this is just in case you don't know how Dougal has his pyro set up.....

Always good to note.
I never recommend fitting a pyro probe after the turbine as all accuracy is lost.
In the exhaust manifold upstream of the turbo is the only sensible place.

 

[cruiserbrett]

A few questions on the aw450... I know the starter is rear facing on it, but is the block/bellhousing bolt pattern the same as the 4bd1/2T's??? I gather a bolt or two might not be in the right place due to the starter, but the rest? Giving up a bolt or two is not too much of a concern to me, if the other 8 or so work out.

I found a actual picture diagram of the aw450 internals. I dont have either a a440 or an aw450, but maybe someone can compare to the output on an a440...

website:http://www.ganzeboom.net/images1/ganzeboom/parts/Aisin Warner/AW450-43LE.pdf

does anyone know the gear ratios of the aw450? mostly concerned with OD ratio. Anyone with the Isuzu FSM have these availible?