I hope thats a mock up, that or stay off the road.
You need way heavier material.
You need way heavier material.
Interest: Bolt on X-Link
- Thread starter Ebag333
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- Thread starter
- #122
Shouldn't. It's not really as close as it seems, the picture is a bit deceiving.
I've looked at pics of X-Links in motion and they don't move THAT much in relation to the axle.
Just speaking from a point of general knowledge, as I am in no way an expert, but an I-beam does nothing (or close to nothing) for twisting, it does support more weight along the length of the beam than a piece of flat stock. I suspect, this may not be the best material for the job.
I like my limitations. They keep my body panels straight.
Front end flex hardly makes the top five in the 80's hardcore crawling limitations. Which is why most modified front end 80's end up sold, and most "maximize the dual purpose functionality" 80's do not.
I love the idea of advancing the art. It beats another hundred threads on which OME springs to buy so your rig doesn't look stOOpid. Make it happen, prove it on the trail, and see if a bunch of OCD oil sample testing 80 owners really want to tack a silly bar on front of their 80 in order to take flex pics on their curbs
- Thread starter
- #125
You DO know that people are out there with long term installs using a bit smaller than 1/2" plate?
I-Beam is not designed specifically for withstanding twisting, that is true.
BUT, in comparison to flat stock, it is MUCH stonger in all directions, including twisting.
You DO know that people are out there with long term installs using a bit smaller than 1/2" plate?
I-Beam is not designed specifically for withstanding twisting, that is true.
BUT, in comparison to flat stock, it is MUCH stonger in all directions, including twisting.
I know a few things about fab and suspension and all I see is a failure with the material you are using.
Just the grade of steel alone will fail with the weight of the 80 in non ramp wheeling situations.
1/2 or whatever, you are creating a death trap unless you go to rated quality steel.
And I know a little about 80's and wheeling in "rock" terrain, you will never match a Mini or SAS conversion. Not gonna happen, to big and heavy.
- Thread starter
- #127
When doing anything outside the box, failure is always a possibility. I've always been told that we learn more from our failures than our successes.
I've done a ton of research on this, including talking to people who are actively running an X-Link setup. I have no doubt that this is at least as strong as what they are using, and by the time I'm done will be stronger.
Considering the use and abuse they've put theirs through, I'm far more concerned about a failure from something I did wrong (such as poor welding) than from the material.
CrankyCruiser is running a bit smaller than 1/2" sheet that's been cut to fit for his arm (actually close to the same thickness as the existing brackets for the control arms). Sheet metal will simply not be as strong as an I-Beam in multiple directions (including twisting), no way, no how.
Plus remember that an I-Beam's thickness is gauged at it's thinnest point. Much of the beam is actually significantly heavier.
I will absolutely torture test this before I will trust it. I won't take any chances on it, and if I'm not absolutely comfortable with it I won't use it, or I'll further strengthen it until I am comfortable with it. (That's exactly why my skid plate is 4 gauge where I've seen 10 gauge work, and my sliders are 3/16" when half that works.)
Weight isn't a huge concern for me (we are driving pigs, after all) so that's not a issue for me like it would be for a production version, where the shipping costs can kill a product.
There's already been plenty of hashing over this, and plenty of opinions voiced on it.
First off, I'm not looking for something with slinky-like flexibility. If I wanted that I wouldn't be driving a Cruiser. If I wanted that in a Cruiser, I'd be doing a 3 link (or similar).
My goal with this is to make it a more comfortable ride and help free up the front end some. I'm not expecting it to do extremely more than our poor man 3 link hitch pin mod already does, it's simply the next step up from that.
80's make it through areas by having a flexible back end and lockers. Heck, I've seen FJC's go everywhere I have, and they have way less flex. I'm not expecting to go anywhere I can't go now, I just want to do it in more comfort and without the entire body flopping around following the front axle.
For what you are building you should be using plate steel of very high quality with dimple dies for rigidity, the I beam will not work, look at the suspension pieces built for buggies and desert trucks and take a long look at what your doing.
- Thread starter
- #129
Cool. You gonna pay for it?
It won't work even though something that's has equivelent strength (or even weaker) does work?
Oh, and if I enclose one side with additional metal, then it basically becomes the same design as hollow structural section, which is designed for torsion strength.
Entirely different purposes. I'm not subjecting my truck to hitting washouts, rocks, holes, etc at 60+ MPH.
It's called rock crawling for a reason.
(Plus, I actually have looked at them. A friend of mine just finished building his mini truck up for Baja, so I'm familiar with the design and differences between the two.)
I get what you're saying, and you have a valid concern. But you're wrong to flat out say it won't work. Unless you know exactly the forces involved here (how could you, have you ever built an X-Link?) you have no idea how well it will or won't work. You're just guesstimating, which is fine for web wheeling and chat.
Cal, I don't think this piece is going to see the kind of forces you seem to think it will. In any case, you've made your point, let the man finish it and see for himself. Personally, I doubt the steel will fail, but my opinion means nothing. This isn't a debate, it's a build thread.
I used to believe this also. if your mini is linked then the argument stands. BUT the vast majority of minis are underpowered with leafs and shocks that are not tuned. Bring it
After running my 80 through Green Day and Minor Threat in Area BFE and the Hammers here at home, a Mini is quite a bit more manuverable, pound for pound just as durable.
Anyways, thats not what this thread is about.
Originally Posted by Ebag333
Here's what I'm starting with. This is a 1/4" I-Beam, which is probably way stronger than I need. The shape of the I-Beam should keep it from twisting, which is a problem when using tubing (square or round) or just simple plate
I'm not going to be quite as nice as firetruck - speaking from a degreed engineer point of view - ya', you're simply wrong.
As far as the bending see....
Structural Beam Bending Equations / Calculation Supported on Both Ends Uniform Loading - Engineers Edge
Moment of Inertia, Section Modulus, Radii of Gyration Equations Square and Rectagular Sections - Engineers Edge
Moment of Inertia, Section Modulus, Radii of Gyration Equations I Sections - Engineers Edge
Fundamentals of Machine Elements - Google Books
If none of that rings a bell to you - copy what others have done exactly as you don't know enough to make your own decisions.
Here's what I'm starting with. This is a 1/4" I-Beam, which is probably way stronger than I need. The shape of the I-Beam should keep it from twisting, which is a problem when using tubing (square or round) or just simple plate
I'm not going to be quite as nice as firetruck - speaking from a degreed engineer point of view - ya', you're simply wrong.
As far as the bending see....
Structural Beam Bending Equations / Calculation Supported on Both Ends Uniform Loading - Engineers Edge
Moment of Inertia, Section Modulus, Radii of Gyration Equations Square and Rectagular Sections - Engineers Edge
Moment of Inertia, Section Modulus, Radii of Gyration Equations I Sections - Engineers Edge
Fundamentals of Machine Elements - Google Books
If none of that rings a bell to you - copy what others have done exactly as you don't know enough to make your own decisions.
Xlinks in oz have never won any comps apart from the occasional ramp comp! They are VERY average on the road and sometimes downright scary.
This is a much better option!! (http://www.offroad80s.com/superflex-radius-arms-for-cruisers-at-last-t2983.html and http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/index.php?pag_id=24)
Superior Engineering - Superflex radius arms. They work exceptionally well on and off road, and are on a lot winning comp trucks as well. Basically they just allow a better RANGE of motion out of the front arms yet still give you the feel and the confidence in knowing 'when enough is enough' and to back off. Rather than just driving a big floppy sock
.
A few pics of an OME h/duty 3" lifted 80
from this
to this
sorry for the hijack, but it might give you guys some inspiration.
cheers
Greg
This is a much better option!! (http://www.offroad80s.com/superflex-radius-arms-for-cruisers-at-last-t2983.html and http://www.superiorengineering.com.au/index.php?pag_id=24)
Superior Engineering - Superflex radius arms. They work exceptionally well on and off road, and are on a lot winning comp trucks as well. Basically they just allow a better RANGE of motion out of the front arms yet still give you the feel and the confidence in knowing 'when enough is enough' and to back off. Rather than just driving a big floppy sock
. A few pics of an OME h/duty 3" lifted 80
from this
to this
sorry for the hijack, but it might give you guys some inspiration.
cheers
Greg
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Some cool pics I just got sent of a 100 series in WA
from what i heard he is maxing out the long travel FOX shocks! (way cool)
from what i heard he is maxing out the long travel FOX shocks! (way cool)
Those arms attach to the axle similarly to that of my buddies old Range Rover.
- Thread starter
- #138
Agreed! Thanks for sharing!
I seriously considered something similar to that, or wristed control arms. It's not a bad way to go. If I don't care for the X-link setup, I will probably go with that or something similar.
One thing about the X-Link on road performance....I agree if itis not pinned it'd be scary. I've driven my truck with the hitch pin out (poor mans 3-link) and did not carefor it. Pinned, however, it should drive nearly like stock.
I seriously considered something similar to that, or wristed control arms. It's not a bad way to go. If I don't care for the X-link setup, I will probably go with that or something similar.
One thing about the X-Link on road performance....I agree if itis not pinned it'd be scary. I've driven my truck with the hitch pin out (poor mans 3-link) and did not carefor it. Pinned, however, it should drive nearly like stock.
Impressive!
