If all LC/LX were gone…what would you buy to replace it?

[AnyMal]

Every photo I've ever seen of G-wagons off road shows they have truly terrible suspension articulation. See photo above, lifting front tire 2" in a mild articulation scenario. What's the point of SFA if the suspension is more restrictive than IFS?

Thats mild? Lol

Probably a deceiving angle, it looks like the rear tire is 4’ off the ground and that axle is still in full contact. The front still probably has flex left in it but its not stressed enough yet. They are stiff although ive never off-roaded one. I dont think anyone has ever complained though.

@Madtiger ?

 

[Heckraiser]

If the front is lifting a tire, it is stressed enough to extend to full droop. If that is full droop, that's pretty weak. The rear axle is doing all the flexing (which looks like very good articulation in the rear), the front axle is fully flexed out with pretty minimal movement. If you do a google image search, pretty much all g-wagons do this.

By way of comparison, here is a run-of-the-mill IFS toyota on STOCK springs, aftermarket shocks and disconnected front swaybar:

:edited for side-by-side-ness

 

[AnyMal]

If the front is lifting a tire, it is stressed enough to extend to full droop. If that is full droop, that's pretty weak. The rear axle is doing all the flexing (which looks like very good articulation in the rear), the front axle is fully flexed out with pretty minimal movement. If you do a google image search, pretty much all g-wagons do this.

By way of comparison, here is a run-of-the-mill IFS toyota on STOCK springs, aftermarket shocks and disconnected front swaybar:

:edited for side-by-side-ness

Do the old G solid fronts have any sort of sway disconnect system like LC?

 

[bloc]

I had it in my head that they articulated much better. Per this article they only score 376 on an RTI ramp.. and I know, I know.. it’s a ramp not a trail. But it is indicative of trail performance.

Off-road test: Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional

Words and pictures by Grant Spolander MR MIN The Geländewagen has landed and it’s available in three guises: the G55 AMG, the G350 BlueTEC and the G300 Professional. Grant Spolander tests the Professional model, a military-spec 4x4

www.sa4x4.co.za

Do they have different trims maybe offering more travel? Like disconnecting bars? Or more ride height which may mean more extension travel?

 

[stonepa]

IF i won the lottery, a G Wagon would be near the top of the list!

i wonder, seriously though, if they are reliable enough. No matter WHERE you break down, it is going to take days (weeks?) to get parts shipped in for it!

My experience with pre-face lift solid axle G Wagens (including my G65) is that, if properly maintained, the mechanical bits are every bit as reliable and durable as the LC200. Electrical switches are a different matter. Window and seat switches especially. However, if you damage something special you may have an issue with parts that will need to be shipped in. There are Mercedes dealers in every city in the world that can service and work on the G and it is so ancient tech that most any mechanic can handle the mechanical bits. I would not hesitate taking a G-wagen anywhere.

 

[Heckraiser]

I imagine there must be aftermarket suspension arm offerings similar to the superflex arms offered for 80 series. But I think the stock setup just does not allow the front axle to move very much.

 

[AnyMal]

I had it in my head that they articulated much better. Per this article they only score 376 on an RTI ramp.. and I know, I know.. it’s a ramp not a trail. But it is indicative of trail performance.

Off-road test: Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional

Words and pictures by Grant Spolander MR MIN The Geländewagen has landed and it’s available in three guises: the G55 AMG, the G350 BlueTEC and the G300 Professional. Grant Spolander tests the Professional model, a military-spec 4x4

www.sa4x4.co.za

Do they have different trims maybe offering more travel? Like disconnecting bars? Or more ride height which may mean more extension travel?

Damn! Do don’t this to my baby!

It must be restricted somehow. Wheres the g wagen forum?

 

[Madtiger]

Thats mild? Lol

Probably a deceiving angle, it looks like the rear tire is 4’ off the ground and that axle is still in full contact. The front still probably has flex left in it but its not stressed enough yet. They are stiff although ive never off-roaded one. I dont think anyone has ever complained though.

@Madtiger ?

The front SA on previous G500 was limited in articulation…that is true. The rear SA had no sway bar…so, it had excellent articulation. I can’t give you the RTI numbers. But in my off-roading with G500, i never found much issue either way. With full set of lockers (and ATRAC when not locked), it went where ever i pointed it. I went thru same obstacles as my brother’s Jeep Rubicon. Never did i have to take bypass that the Rubicon went thru. We went everywhere in CO.

But like most have already said, G500 was not pleasant on the highway. Better than Jeep Wrangler but that’s about all i can say about it! Steering was heavy. Ride was rough. Wind noise. Glare in side windows. And i had several issues with it.

 

[stonepa]

The front SA on previous G500 was limited in articulation…that is true. The rear SA had no sway bar…so, it had excellent articulation. I can’t give you the RTI numbers. But in my off-roading with G500, i never found much issue either way. With full set of lockers (and ATRAC when not locked), it went where ever i pointed it. I went thru same obstacles as my brother’s Jeep Rubicon. Never did i have to take bypass that the Rubicon went thru. We went everywhere in CO.

But like most have already said, G500 was not pleasant on the highway. Better than Jeep Wrangler but that’s about all i can say about it! Steering was heavy. Ride was rough. Wind noise. Glare in side windows. And i had several issues with it.

I would agree with each of these points. They also tend to get ‘rattley’ over time. My 440k mile 100 has zero rattles compared to most 100k mile G500s.

 

[Tex68w]

Stop crapping on most everyone’s pipe dream alternative guys, let us dream unrealistically lol.

 

[stonepa]

Stop crapping on most everyone’s pipe dream alternative guys, let us dream unrealistically lol.

Oh I’d still pick the pre-facelift G for sure. Now let’s consider the Defender…. or not.

 

[TeCKis300]

I had it in my head that they articulated much better. Per this article they only score 376 on an RTI ramp.. and I know, I know.. it’s a ramp not a trail. But it is indicative of trail performance.

Off-road test: Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional

Words and pictures by Grant Spolander MR MIN The Geländewagen has landed and it’s available in three guises: the G55 AMG, the G350 BlueTEC and the G300 Professional. Grant Spolander tests the Professional model, a military-spec 4x4

www.sa4x4.co.za

Do they have different trims maybe offering more travel? Like disconnecting bars? Or more ride height which may mean more extension travel?

Good stuff. Data backs up @Heckraiser 's perception that the G doesn't particularly excel in articulation. Though the diesel variant is probably the worse of the breed for it. I've read that the old school 70-series is somewhat the same. 3x lockers makes up for some of that. I'll see if I can't dig up a score for the 70-series.

Added the RTI score in context here:

Suspension Articulation RTI Tracker

forum.ih8mud.com

RTI Score Chart:

'18 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 724
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 718
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe (bar off): 701
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 687
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 (bar off): 684
'20 Toyota Land Cruiser Heritage Edition: 661
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar off): 648
'17 Toyota Land Cruiser: 647
'17 Lexus LX570 (AHC normal, 20" wheels): 645
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar off): 607
'17 Ford Rapter Supercab: 603
'21 Ram 1500 TRX: 602
'20 Lexus LX570 Sport w/chin spoiler (AHC high, 21" wheels): 588
'10 Toyota 4runner w/KDSS: 584
'17 Land Rover LR4: 560
'21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road KDSS: 555
'21 Ford Raptor w/37" tire package: 537
Mercedes G63 AMG (last gen): 534
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar on): 523
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar on): 522
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 518
'17 Land Rover Discovery: 516
Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison: 501
Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro: 492
'21 Chevy Colorado ZR2: 489
'14 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro: 484
Jeep Gladiator Mojave: 476
Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road: 468
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar on): 458
'17 Land Rover LR4 (high mode): 457
'15 Ford F150: 420
'14 Ram Power Wagon: 412
Chevy Colorado Z71 (air dam removed): 410
'17 Land Rover Discovery (high mode): 377
'11 Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional: 376
'17 Nissan Armada: 362

 

[Tex68w]

It’s always impressive to see that the only thing that beats the 200 on the RTI scale is a Rubicon. These beasts are so underestimated by the standard Offroad crowd.

 

[BadReligion]

Do the old G solid fronts have any sort of sway disconnect system like LC?

They do not. I bet the front sway (which is pretty hefty) is a limiting factor on the front end articulation. But where it lacks in articulation, it makes up with pretty impressive approach and departure angles. And the lockers offset some of the issues with articulation.

It’s always impressive to see that the only thing that beats the 200 on the RTI scale is a Rubicon. These beasts are so underestimated by the standard Offroad crowd.

Until I saw a 200 in action at Moab, I had no idea how capable they were, even in stock form.

 

[TLC2013]

It’s always impressive to see that the only thing that beats the 200 on the RTI scale is a Rubicon. These beasts are so underestimated by the standard Offroad crowd.

So true, and they need to disconnect their sway bars to get a higher count. The 200s articulation is a thing of beauty.

 

[Madtiger]

I would agree with each of these points. They also tend to get ‘rattley’ over time. My 440k mile 100 has zero rattles compared to most 100k mile G500s.

No rattles with mine.

It’s always impressive to see that the only thing that beats the 200 on the RTI scale is a Rubicon. These beasts are so underestimated by the standard Offroad crowd.

There is no doubt that G5xx is better off-road than my LC200. Stock vs. stock. Just like i will say that a Rubicon is better than my LC200 stock vs. stock off-road. You cannot beat the smaller dimension and full set of lockers. My G was amazing off-road. I drive it with more confidence than i do with LC.

But overall, LC200 is just a better vehicle for dual purpose…on-road and off-road. With CRAWL and amazing articulation, LC200 does really good off-road…but its whale size does limit where you go. But on-road, it is light years better than G5xx.

And then you also need to talk about reliability. With my G500, I have window regulators go bad on all doors every 15-20k miles, sunroof leak, infotainment system go bad, and the last one that broke camel’s back was engine mount crack. Service costs were astronomical. Fortunately, i had extended warranty when i got it new...so, it was worth it!

But you know…i did have my infotainment system go bad on my LC200 last year…and i did promptly get extended warranty after seeing the price of the infotainment system! I swear that i am not using a hammer to select radio stations on my cars!

 

[BadReligion]

I had it in my head that they articulated much better. Per this article they only score 376 on an RTI ramp.. and I know, I know.. it’s a ramp not a trail. But it is indicative of trail performance.

Off-road test: Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional

Words and pictures by Grant Spolander MR MIN The Geländewagen has landed and it’s available in three guises: the G55 AMG, the G350 BlueTEC and the G300 Professional. Grant Spolander tests the Professional model, a military-spec 4x4

www.sa4x4.co.za

Do they have different trims maybe offering more travel? Like disconnecting bars? Or more ride height which may mean more extension travel?

To be fair, the G63 scored 534, which is better that a Rubicon Wrangler with sway bar attached. It was an older '11 professional model that got the 376.

And the photos showing lack of articulation were a professional model.

 

[Madtiger]

To be fair, the G63 scored 534, which is better that a Rubicon Wrangler with sway bar attached. It was an older '11 professional model that got the 376.

And the photos showing lack of articulation were a professional model.

And G63 had stiffer springs too. So, a regular G5xx probably had better RTI??

Yeah, never had any issue with articulation on my G500. Whatever the RTI is, it is NOT your limiting factor. How high your balls go up to your neck is probably the main limiting factor…..

 

[PhuckItImDone]

What does the '20 HE have or not to score a few more over the '17 LC?

 

[BadReligion]

And G63 had stiffer springs too. So, a regular G5xx probably had better RTI??

Yeah, never had any issue with articulation on my G500. Whatever the RTI is, it is NOT your limiting factor. How high your balls go up to your neck is probably the main limiting factor…..

True. Not only are they stiffer, but slightly shorter than the G5xx springs.

I definitely agree with your last sentence. I've seen guys wheel almost stock 80s on the Rubicon and get through because they are 1; good drivers and 2; dont give a sh** about body damage or breaking stuff.

Same with on the track. I've seen guys in E46 325s have faster lap times than someone in their brand new Z06. Yes they get smoked on the straightaways, but more than make up time in the corners. Driver skill is a big and highly variable factor both on and off road.