I am yet again bringing you a Head-gasket rebuild thread

[JM74]

And here we are, finished up with the little time I had this evening, love the look of this wider updated design! Fitting on it was spot on! Going to have a full day on the truck tomorrow, suppose to be warm Thursday as well so some more pressure washing will commence then!

 

[JM74]

Got all the bolts aswell and figured I’d try something and not drill the a-pillar yet. Well see how it pans out over time...

Lol warming up the metal

Trying this moulding tape out... time will tell!

 

[JM74]

Few final things from today’s errands...

 

[JM74]

Block head bolt channels cleaned, surprisingly very clean. Starting to work with the old head and stripping it, going to clean up the valves and have them ready to seat on the new head once that arrives

Exhaust valves looking a little scaly:

Intake looking cleaner... as expected;

 

[JM74]

One of the old heads cracks:

 

[JM74]

Machine shop said 19thou out of spec... that doesn’t look like 19thou..

 

[BILT4ME]

Machine shop said 19thou out of spec... that doesn’t look like 19thou..

View attachment 2499410

Is the cam bearing bore on the one end there scored? The one on the PS, by the timing chain?

 

[JM74]

Is the cam bearing bore on the one end there scored? The one on the PS, by the timing chain?

Doesn’t look too bad

 

[BILT4ME]

Doesn’t look too bad View attachment 2499512View attachment 2499513

OK, just dirt / crud. I thought it looked scraped.

 

[JM74]

OK, just dirt / crud. I thought it looked scraped.

No I think it’s all good, the machine shop did put a nice massive gouge in the deck though. Funny how they measured 19thou...

 

[sbman]

It looks like you ordered some new valve springs, are you replacing all of them? If not, please be sure that you measure them to make sure they are in spec before re-using them.

I would also carefully measure any valves you plan to re-use, you've gone to a lot of trouble with buying a new head and all to have problems creep up sooner than you'd like due to out of spec parts. A full set of new OEM valves is about $300-$350 (in the U.S. at least).

I would hate to see you have a problem sooner than you'd like as happened with my head/valve job. I had a machine shop do the valve job and they didn't check the springs which were well under spec as I found out about 60K miles later. The weak springs caused the valves to not hold shut tightly, overheat and wear a groove in the sealing faces on all 24 of them (plus they were chineseium which I was not happy about at all), with thumbnail deep grooves and loss of compression in two cylinders. When measured, the springs were half of the rated spec.

I ended up redoing the valve job with all new OEM springs, all new OEM exhaust valve guides, and all new OEM valves and a much better machine shop. A bitter pill to swallow after an extensive rebuild which I did all the work on myself except the valve job.

 

[JM74]

It looks like you ordered some new valve springs, are you replacing all of them? If not, please be sure that you measure them to make sure they are in spec before re-using them.

I would also carefully measure any valves you plan to re-use, you've gone to a lot of trouble with buying a new head and all to have problems creep up sooner than you'd like due to out of spec parts. A full set of new OEM valves is about $300-$350 (in the U.S. at least).

I would hate to see you have a problem sooner than you'd like as happened with my head/valve job. I had a machine shop do the valve job and they didn't check the springs which were well under spec as I found out about 60K miles later. The weak springs caused the valves to not hold shut tightly, overheat and wear a groove in the sealing faces on all 24 of them (plus they were chineseium which I was not happy about at all), with thumbnail deep grooves and loss of compression in two cylinders. When measured, the springs were half of the rated spec.

I ended up redoing the valve job with all new OEM springs, all new OEM exhaust valve guides, and all new OEM valves and a much better machine shop. A bitter pill to swallow after an extensive rebuild which I did all the work on myself except the valve job.

Thanks I do appreciate the tips, yes all new valve springs from Toyota getting installed so not too worried about spec on them.

I think the valves should be good, I’m going to wire wheel them all on a bench grinder and clean them up, get all the years of baked crud on them off. All new OEM valves in Canada is going to run you around 740$ before tax.

Will be doing the whole valve job myself, hopefully everything goes well, do wish I had the Toyota SST tool though.

 

[BILT4ME]

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This makes them look pretty, but I'm gonna say no. This guy is polishing away his valve stems and destroying the seats of the valves in what he's doing. His valve guides will be loose and the seats will no longer be true.

 

[sbman]

Thanks I do appreciate the tips, yes all new valve springs from Toyota getting installed so not too worried about spec on them.

I think the valves should be good, I’m going to wire wheel them all on a bench grinder and clean them up, get all the years of baked crud on them off. All new OEM valves in Canada is going to run you around 740$ before tax.

Will be doing the whole valve job myself, hopefully everything goes well, do wish I had the Toyota SST tool though.

I didn't have the tools to measure the valves per the FSM's instructions, specifically the caliper dial gauge used to find out the diameter of the valve guides. Since your new head will have new guides (it does come with them installed right?), perhaps measuring the stems and verifying they are in spec will be sufficient. I also didn't have the proper tools to check valve length or verify that the tips were flat. I don't think I'd be happy not being able to grind the faces before lapping them in which also requires special equipment.

 

[JM74]

Google Search

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BILT4ME is this a settle way of suggesting against it? From my general consensus It’s ok to wire wheel them to clean them up and then you hand lap them with grinding compound...? This will be my first time.

 

[sbman]

I have only done hand lapping as a primary/only means of seating valves on small engines and things I wasn't too concerned about. On something I expect to last for 200K+ miles I would want the valves ground with fresh faces first, that is IF they are in spec enough to do so after having already served 200K+ miles. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't think re-using the valves is a good idea.

If you are going to re-use them it would be best to have a machine shop give the faces a 45 degree grind before you lap them in. The FSM has the steps for doing the valve job, including measuring, grinding, prussian blue and final lapping. I would assume the seat on the new head will be correct, but the prussian blue surface checking is supposed to reveal if that is the case or not.

 

[BILT4ME]

BILT4ME is this a settle way of suggesting against it? From my general consensus It’s ok to wire wheel them to clean them up and then you hand lap them with grinding compound...? This will be my first time.

Using a wire wheel places small surface scratches in the face of the valves. This allows hot spots to be created. You cannot see these scratches with the naked eye. Mot machine shops use ultrasonic cleaners these days.

All that said, I have personally cleaned valves in a head this way on a SBC because I was doing a "cheap and dirty" rebuild and longevity was not my first and foremost concern. That was cost. Did it kill it? No. Did it shorten it's life? IDK because the rest of the truck died before the engine did, but that was only about another 5 years that I know of.

Yes, you can use a wire wheel, but realize the consequences. I like the scotch brite in water method because it's plastic on metal in water. Less abrasive and less likely to remove material or create fine scratches. The wire wheel wires are hardened and can scratch your valves.

Don't do the multiple grades of sandpaper because they are literally removing material to get that finish. If you read the comments on that guy's YouTube, they thrash him pretty hard for destroying his valves.

If I was doing it for me, I would do it the way @sbman says above, ^^^^ but you're kinda far down the road for that now.

 

[sbman]

Using a wire wheel places small surface scratches in the face of the valves. This allows hot spots to be created. You cannot see these scratches with the naked eye. Mot machine shops use ultrasonic cleaners these days.

All that said, I have personally cleaned valves in a head this way on a SBC because I was doing a "cheap and dirty" rebuild and longevity was not my first and foremost concern. That was cost. Did it kill it? No. Did it shorten it's life? IDK because the rest of the truck died before the engine did, but that was only about another 5 years that I know of.

Yes, you can use a wire wheel, but realize the consequences. I like the scotch brite in water method because it's plastic on metal in water. Less abrasive and less likely to remove material or create fine scratches. The wire wheel wires are hardened and can scratch your valves.

Don't do the multiple grades of sandpaper because they are literally removing material to get that finish. If you read the comments on that guy's YouTube, they thrash him pretty hard for destroying his valves.

If I was doing it for me, I would do it the way @sbman says above, ^^^^ but you're kinda far down the road for that now.

Seems like a machine shop could just put a fresh face on the valves and measure them since they are already out of the head, should not cost too much. Concern is if they will pass muster on specs but with them being measured you'd know for sure.

 

[BILT4ME]

Seems like a machine shop could just put a fresh face on the valves and measure them since they are already out of the head, should not cost too much. Concern is if they will pass muster on specs but with them being measured you'd know for sure.

Ideally, I would send the whole mess to the shop, have them do the seats on the head, match the valves to them, assemble, and trim the valve stems accordingly due to the refacing. This will also allow them to check valve guide clearances and install the seals and keepers.

But, it's not my money, and we all need to learn some time. I learned my way because money was tight and we did what we had to do to get by. Sometimes we did things two or three times because we didn't have the right manual or we didn't do something right. That's why I now know those things that I won't do myself, but money is not my issue now. Now, it's time. (It was then, too, I just didn't realize it)

 

[JM74]

Using a wire wheel places small surface scratches in the face of the valves. This allows hot spots to be created. You cannot see these scratches with the naked eye. Mot machine shops use ultrasonic cleaners these days.

All that said, I have personally cleaned valves in a head this way on a SBC because I was doing a "cheap and dirty" rebuild and longevity was not my first and foremost concern. That was cost. Did it kill it? No. Did it shorten it's life? IDK because the rest of the truck died before the engine did, but that was only about another 5 years that I know of.

Yes, you can use a wire wheel, but realize the consequences. I like the scotch brite in water method because it's plastic on metal in water. Less abrasive and less likely to remove material or create fine scratches. The wire wheel wires are hardened and can scratch your valves.

Don't do the multiple grades of sandpaper because they are literally removing material to get that finish. If you read the comments on that guy's YouTube, they thrash him pretty hard for destroying his valves.

If I was doing it for me, I would do it the way @sbman says above, ^^^^ but you're kinda far down the road for that now.

Seems like a machine shop could just put a fresh face on the valves and measure them since they are already out of the head, should not cost too much. Concern is if they will pass muster on specs but with them being measured you'd know for sure.

Appreciate this help and tips guys, unfortunately it’s just not an option, like I simply cannot afford the additional 850$ hit and the time for that matter too, the people I’m borrowing the garage from are already tired of me here and want me gone as it’s winter now and I didn’t except this to be a 3 month ordeal.

Ok I’ll definitely ditch the wire wheel I do have a bunch of VSM Maroon abbarisive pads that I can use for the water method with the valves.

Machine shop could somewhat be an option the only problem is they’re all out of town here, also how to keep all the valves in order to bring there and back?

In an indeal world I’d agree just got all new but I can’t at the moment and need a car, biking in the snow is getting harder and harder lol