I am yet again bringing you a Head-gasket rebuild thread (1 Viewer)

[JM74]

Ideally, I would send the whole mess to the shop, have them do the seats on the head, match the valves to them, assemble, and trim the valve stems accordingly due to the refacing. This will also allow them to check valve guide clearances and install the seals and keepers.

But, it's not my money, and we all need to learn some time. I learned my way because money was tight and we did what we had to do to get by. Sometimes we did things two or three times because we didn't have the right manual or we didn't do something right. That's why I now know those things that I won't do myself, but money is not my issue now. Now, it's time. (It was then, too, I just didn't realize it)

I mean this could be an option depending on what they end up charging me. Do they normally trim the stems I thought a change or shim on the bucket was in order?

Also a little weary of the first machine shop I went too, with the massive scratch in the deck and the fact they said it was 19thou out and it looks more like 2

 

[BILT4ME]

Appreciate this help and tips guys, unfortunately it’s just not an option, like I simply cannot afford the additional 850$ hit and the time for that matter too, the people I’m borrowing the garage from are already tired of me here and want me gone as it’s winter now and I didn’t except this to be a 3 month ordeal.

Ok I’ll definitely ditch the wire wheel I do have a bunch of VSM Maroon abbarisive pads that I can use for the water method with the valves.

Machine shop could somewhat be an option the only problem is they’re all out of town here, also how to keep all the valves in order to bring there and back?

In an indeal world I’d agree just got all new but I can’t at the moment and need a car, biking in the snow is getting harder and harder lol

So, you do what you need to do.

Use the water and scotch brite to clean up.

Measure and insert your valves in the correct locations.
Lap each valve to its seat.
Assemble each one as necessary.

Take your time. Realize that since you will be lapping each valve, you make the valve "longer" and you may need to "tip" the valve. There was a good thread on here a while back about someone setting up a home "valve tipping" arrangement with a bench grinder. Maybe @Kernal ?

Your valve length will be measured with your seats clean, springs and keepers installed, and your shims in place. Having valves that are too long will keep your valves open long (or not allow them to seat) and could burn a valve, so these measurements are critical.

Oh, and clean up that cam journal with fine emory (crocus) cloth with oil on it because there is rust or something and some fine pits that need to be addressed.

Make sure you use assembly lube on the cam bearings and such when assembling so they don't bind on start-up.

 

[sbman]

I mean this could be an option depending on what they end up charging me. Do they normally trim the stems I thought a change or shim on the bucket was in order?

Also a little weary of the first machine shop I went too, with the massive scratch in the deck and the fact they said it was 19thou out and it looks more like 2

I'm spoiled here with lots of machine shops to choose from easily available, but I'd at least call around and see how much they would charge to measure and grind the valves.

The new head is going to require resetting the valve adjustment with shims anyways and any wear pattern they had for the seats in the old head is just a problem, so which valve goes where does not matter anymore.

The seat/face/tip all work together to get the clearance at the cam and is adjusted by the shims however it stacks up once installed. Replacing the head throws all the previous installed settings/shims out the window.

 

[sbman]

Oh, and clean up that cam journal with fine emory (crocus) cloth with oil on it because there is rust or something and some fine pits that need to be addressed.

Make sure you use assembly lube on the cam bearings and such when assembling so they don't bind on start-up.

He's replacing the head with new OEM, so the journals will be clean and any worn valves will be sitting in brand new holes.

 

[BILT4ME]

I mean this could be an option depending on what they end up charging me. Do they normally trim the stems I thought a change or shim on the bucket was in order?

Also a little weary of the first machine shop I went too, with the massive scratch in the deck and the fact they said it was 19thou out and it looks more like 2

Only you can make that decision based on finances, and gambling on a shop. You will experience cognitive dissonance no matter which way you go. It's part of the learning curve.

I gambled on a shop and lost many years ago and it cost me dearly. I was NOT happy, and it took me a while to find a comparable shop to do what was needed. These days, qualified, competent shops are expensive and have long wait times. For a reason.

If you're under 40, do this yourself and learn. It will make you better.

 

[BILT4ME]

He's replacing the head with new OEM, so the journals will be clean and any worn valves will be sitting in brand new holes.

I guess I missed that.

If that's the case, I would not use old valves. They would not ever seat properly using old valves in a new head.

I thought he had the head surfaced. Maybe I missed a step or two.

New information influencing my decisions.

 

[JM74]

Thanks for all Info @BILT4ME and @sbman, really appreciate it guys!

Yes all new head from Toyota, hopefully here soonish, the old head was wayy out of spec and was cracked so there was no using it unfortunately.

I can’t simply wait another month for valves to arrive it’s just not doable, they want me out of this garage pronto. Plus finance is tight I’m only working seasonal jobs at the moment. If anyone knows someone on here that has valves they would want to sell and ship up here quick I could be interested in that case, correct me if I’m wrong but then you wouldn’t need any seating or etc. I’d be good to go install, seals, maybe some shims and vola?

Haha yes well under 40 I’m 24

 

[sbman]

Thanks for all Info @BILT4ME and @sbman, really appreciate it guys!

Yes all new head from Toyota, hopefully here soonish, the old head was wayy out of spec and was cracked so there was no using it unfortunately.

I can’t simply wait another month for valves to arrive it’s just not doable, they want me out of this garage pronto. Plus finance is tight I’m only working seasonal jobs at the moment. If anyone knows someone on here that has valves they would want to sell and ship up here quick I could be interested in that case, correct me if I’m wrong but then you wouldn’t need any seating or etc. I’d be good to go install, seals, maybe some shims and vola?

Haha yes well under 40 I’m 24

I would hate to do it, but I would consider new, aftermarket valves over used OEM ones in this case with finances and time being the primary issues. With new, you do a very light lapping just to make sure the surface contact looks good then clean and install, set the shims for proper clearance.

 

[JM74]

I would hate to do it, but I would consider new, aftermarket valves over used OEM ones in this case with finances and time being the primary issues. With new, you do a very light lapping just to make sure the surface contact looks good then clean and install, set the shims for proper clearance.

Man that would pain me, but might be my only option... if someone in the states could get them quicker and cheaper that could be an option aswell... this truck is going to run me into the ground, should’ve kept my last one, 300,000 miles and only ever did basic maintenance, the body was rotten though and exhaust

Any recommendations on best aftermarket ?

 

[BILT4ME]

Thanks for all Info @BILT4ME and @sbman, really appreciate it guys!

Yes all new head from Toyota, hopefully here soonish, the old head was wayy out of spec and was cracked so there was no using it unfortunately.

I can’t simply wait another month for valves to arrive it’s just not doable, they want me out of this garage pronto. Plus finance is tight I’m only working seasonal jobs at the moment. If anyone knows someone on here that has valves they would want to sell and ship up here quick I could be interested in that case, correct me if I’m wrong but then you wouldn’t need any seating or etc. I’d be good to go install, seals, maybe some shims and vola?

Haha yes well under 40 I’m 24

To make sure I'm understanding where you are:
1) You are using the engine block and pistons the way they are. No disassembly there other than what it took to remove the head.
2) You have a NEW Toyota head on its way to you (not received yet)
3) You have NEW valve springs in hand
4) You have new valve seals in hand
5) You are planning on using the old valves
6) You are planning on using the old shims (and maybe a few new ones...do you already have this assortment?)
7) You still need to polish the one journal on that cam.
8) You have feeler gauges, dial indicators, torque wrenches to properly measure and torque these pieces during assembly?
9) Valve keepers, new or used? Should be used with used and new with new.

If all the above is true, Some pros and cons:
Pros:
You save some time
You save some money (short term) could be weeks, months or years.

Cons:
Your assembly may burn a valve in 2 hours of initial drive time (or not)
Long term costs will be higher
Long term you will most likely do this job again.

I like @sbman 's suggestion to save time and some money to buy aftermarket NEW valves and lap them in. At least you will be more likely to get them square with the world and be able to get them faster and less expensive than OEM. Less likely to burn a valve in the short term.

Do a cost comparison between OEM and aftermarket as well as time comparison. I would check Summit Racing for availability. Also check www.partsouq.com

 

[JM74]

To make sure I'm understanding where you are:
1) You are using the engine block and pistons the way they are. No disassembly there other than what it took to remove the head.
2) You have a NEW Toyota head on its way to you (not received yet)
3) You have NEW valve springs in hand
4) You have new valve seals in hand
5) You are planning on using the old valves
6) You are planning on using the old shims (and maybe a few new ones...do you already have this assortment?)
7) You still need to polish the one journal on that cam.
8) You have feeler gauges, dial indicators, torque wrenches to properly measure and torque these pieces during assembly?
9) Valve keepers, new or used? Should be used with used and new with new.

If all the above is true, Some pros and cons:
Pros:
You save some time
You save some money (short term) could be weeks, months or years.

Cons:
Your assembly may burn a valve in 2 hours of initial drive time (or not)
Long term costs will be higher
Long term you will most likely do this job again.

I like @sbman 's suggestion to save time and some money to buy aftermarket NEW valves and lap them in. At least you will be more likely to get them square with the world and be able to get them faster and less expensive than OEM. Less likely to burn a valve in the short term.

Do a cost comparison between OEM and aftermarket as well as time comparison. I would check Summit Racing for availability. Also check www.partsouq.com

Yes this is all correct, except no dial indicators and I don’t have any shims yet (was hoping to get lucky and not order a variety At 15$ a pop)

Thanks for all this info again, I’ll give summit racing and partsouq and browse, would you Steer clear of rock auto?

 

[sbman]

Yes this is all correct, except no dial indicators and I don’t have any shims yet (was hoping to get lucky and not order a variety At 15$ a pop)

Thanks for all this info again, I’ll give summit racing and partsouq and browse, would you Steer clear of rock auto?

Honestly I've searched around on this and the aftermarket ones aren't much cheaper than OEM, at least in the states. Aftermarket is all the same, rockauto is just a reseller of the same parts as everyone else, no issue there that is different than any other aftermarket shop.

 

[JM74]

Yes this is all correct, except no dial indicators and I don’t have any shims yet (was hoping to get lucky and not order a variety At 15$ a pop)

Thanks for all this info again, I’ll give summit racing and partsouq and browse, would you Steer clear of rock auto?

Honestly I've searched around on this and the aftermarket ones aren't much cheaper than OEM, at least in the states. Aftermarket is all the same, rockauto is just a reseller of the same parts as everyone else, no issue there that is different than any other aftermarket shop.

Ok so partsouq has them 290 for all 24 OEM shipped to Canada? That seems like a wicked deal, my only worry is getting hit with an over 100$ duty charge when they hit the border..

Honestly If I can get them for 290 and they ship quick through partsouq I can make that work.. I think

 

[BILT4ME]

Yes this is all correct, except no dial indicators and I don’t have any shims yet (was hoping to get lucky and not order a variety At 15$ a pop)

Thanks for all this info again, I’ll give summit racing and partsouq and browse, would you Steer clear of rock auto?

Well, I can't find anything on Summit Racing.

RockAuto only has (4) Intake valves in stock.
I have no idea who ITM Engine parts is (Rock Auto)

Maybe check NAPA. They have the Sealed Power brand that are typically good. I don't know how they compare price-wise to the OEM.

Your numbers above are way better for OEM, even including the $100 customs charge better than NAPA Sealed Power.

 

[JM74]

Well, I can't find anything on Summit Racing.

RockAuto only has (4) Intake valves in stock.
I have no idea who ITM Engine parts is (Rock Auto)

Maybe check NAPA. They have the Sealed Power brand that are typically good. I don't know how they compare price-wise to the OEM.

Your numbers above are way better for OEM, even including the $100 customs charge better than NAPA Sealed Power.

Honestly I’m thinking just credit card these one right now before they go out of stock, they both state to ship in 1-2 days... Thoughts??

You mentioned I need new keepers as well?

 

[BILT4ME]

Honestly I’m thinking just credit card these one right now before they go out of stock, they both state to ship in 1-2 days... Thoughts??

You mentioned I need new keepers as well?

View attachment 2499670

Yes, I would do new keepers.

I would be consistent on whatever valves I get. Get all the same or all exhaust the same and all intake the same. Don't mix on the same cam.

 

[JM74]

Yes, I would do new keepers.

I would be consistent on whatever valves I get. Get all the same or all exhaust the same and all intake the same. Don't mix on the same cam.

@sbman just pointed out to me that they only have 3 intake valves in stock, so it would be gamble with time ordering from there... not super sure what to do in a bit of a bind now.

Going to call about getting the old valves ground at a machine shop tomorrow but ideally it sounds like I may just have to get on my knees and beg to keep my truck here a little while longer and wait on some new valves

 

[JM74]

Anyone have experience with backordered parts with partsouq? Wondering if my odds are good? I’ve heard they ship fast generally

 

[BILT4ME]

Anyone have experience with backordered parts with partsouq? Wondering if my odds are good? I’ve heard they ship fast generally

When I had backordered parts, they just refunded my money and shipped the remainder of the order. I didn't know it until I received the parts a week or so later.

 

[JM74]

When I had backordered parts, they just refunded my money and shipped the remainder of the order. I didn't know it until I received the parts a week or so later.

Hmm fair so doesn’t sound like an option then... I think I may have a lead here in Canada but we’ll see if it pans out.

Wondering if my camshafts are bent? And that’s what was causing the crazy warp reading from the machine shop on my head...?