Hydraulic winch and PS flush

[AllenTenT]

Hey Cruiserheads,, What an amaizing resorce this is It has been many hours of searching and learning here for me Its only been a couple of months of lurking and my wife has already had comments about sitting in front of the pc,, Cheers to those who make it happen

I have found info on power steering pump flush which I intend to use soon , just one question: how would a Hydraulic Mile marker come into play here im not sure exactly how its all piped up but from what I can gather it works of the ps pump

Thanks in advance

 

[landtank]

the high pressure sid of the pump goes to the winch, from there it goes to the steering box and then onto the cooler. You'll get everything you need except the hoses will be way too long for the truck, I had one made into two to get the job done. Also I ran the hoses through the frame under the radiator and sourced 2 large grommets to protect the hoses from chaffing.


Here is my MileMarker Hydraulic install

 

[Bambusiero]

Rick,

It's been a while now since you installed the Milemarker hydraulic
winch, and I've been very curious as to your real-world experience
with it. What's your assesment of the performance with the FZJ80
stock power steering pump? Have you had a chance to measure the
cable speed (or just an estimate)? Used it under load? Does it do
OK at idle, or does it help to rev the engine faster?

There seems to be so many doubters regarding the Milemarker
hydraulic, but they all seem to be based on other vehicles PS
pumps, so I don't know if it's just prejudice.

 

[landtank]

I've managed to pull the line out by hand and real it in. That's it. I've been meaning to take my truck and my wife's out to where I could atleast pull the truck up a hill. Just to busy and the place is covered in snow right now.

 

[Bambusiero]

Well, I'm looking forward to hearing about it, when you've tried
it out.

Couldn't you just, I dunno, pull the neighbors car down the street
or something (with the brakes on)?

 

[Rich]

Rick, have you by any chance been able to recall the source of the grommets?

 

[landtank]

Rick, have you by any chance been able to recall the source of the grommets?

I just searched the web for them. I found some military grade ones in the size I needed.

 

[AllenTenT]

Thanks for the info Landtank
My MM is already on the truck I want to flush the PS system and was wondering how the hydraulic winch would affect this process
I havent used the MM much but on occasion it has been put to the test, dragged a LR up the beachwith its axels in the sand with a yawn

 

[landtank]

RavenTai posted a great method for flushing the PS system, you might want to check it out.

 

[AllenTenT]

Yup,I have it as i said in the begining,, does the winch affect the process in any way, seeing as though its shares the hydraulics

 

[landtank]

I don't believe it will have any effect other than needed to flush more out. However with that method you will have some remain in the winch motor because you won't be activating the solenoids to pump it through it. But that would be a small amount.

 

[Bambusiero]

So, AllenTenT, sounds like you have at least a bit of
personal experience indicating good performance out
of the MM hydraulic winch.

The reason I'm interested in this is that there seems
to be 2 camps in the hydraulic winch question.

1) Those who have been swayed by the very positive
stories about the strength of hydraulic winches, but
who haven't actually seen one at work.
I'm one of those, I suppose. Then again, I've never
seen ANY winch at work, so I may be naive.

2) Those who have seen or heard of one with very
poor performance, and are therefore dogmatic
critics of them. And the ones who insist that you
might be using your winch with the engine off.
Seems VERY unlikely to me.

The problem is that it all depends on the power
delivery capacity of the power steering pump in the
vehicle, or a high capacity auxilary pump added in.
One review I read added in a pump just for the
review (on a Jeep), and had great things to say about
the performance (well, of course).

MileMarker's specs call for 3.5 GPM flow at 1500 psi.
The motor's displacement at rated pull speed indicates
about 4 GPM. Anyway, it calculates out to somewhere
in the range or 3.6-5 HP delivered by the pump.
That's a lot of power out of a thing the size of your fist.

Well, the 80 series Landcruiser has this stout looking
gear driven PS pump, but nobody is saying what it
can actually deliver. Maybe it's very strong, maybe not.

I'm sure that some vehicles DO have week pumps, and
would give pathetic performance.

So, it comes down to trying it, and let real experience
confirm or deny the nay-sayers.

I look forward to hearing more.

 

[alia176]

Mark,

Can you find out the PSI and GPM of the oem pump? I'm curious about this myself, only as a bystandard since I already have an electric winch. However, I've seen two installs; one on a '94 Range Rover with a 3.9L v8 and another one in a Chevy v6.

Here're my observations: In both cases, the winches were painstakingly slow but power was never an issue. Both drivers would avoid using their MM winches if an electric winch was near by, this is primarily due to the rewind speed. Both winches had hi speed rewinding capability.

The V6 owner tweaked the system to have a higher flow rate for more speed if memory serves by messing with a relief valve or something like that. In both instances, there were some oil mess around the valve assemblies. Both owners had hydraulic shops make custom hoses for their applications.

Both winches worked until the cows came home and were very quiet. In one case, the driver wrapped the winch cable around the bull bar in the middle of a trail run to save time. Somehow, the remote hand control wire got pinched and activated the winch. Unbeknown (spell?) to the driver, the winch began to crush the bull bar!

Hope this helps!

Cheers.

 

[landtank]

I just ordered a hand throttle cable from Slee. I don't know if it will help but when I reelled mine in it didn't seem that long. This is something I'll have to check. But for me,Im more of an expedition kind of guy and don't expect to have to pull this thing out so often during a day that I can't reel it in.

 

[Mickldo]

My local 4x4 club pulled about a dozen burnt out car bodies from the bush the other weekend. My 80 has a 9500lb low mount electric which we used to drag bodies out of the trees. One of the other members has a new Nissan GU Patrol with a TJM OX hydraulic winch (mlie marker re-badged?). He used his winch as well but found it extremely slow compared to the electric.
As far as flushing the system goes can the winch motor be operated with the drum in freespool? If so would that help in removing the old fluid?
Winching with the motor off.-in extreme situations like roll overs and bad side slopes it's preferable to turn the motor off to avoid oil starvation issues. Check the Australian Outback Challenge and Malaysian Rainforest Challenge DVD's. The winches really get a workout and they show up the pro's and con's of electrics,PTOs and hydralics.

 

[Bambusiero]

Good tidbits of info, guys.

I don't have any idea how/where to get performance curve data
on the 80's PS pump, except for rigging up some kind of actual
measurement. Don't think I'm THAT motivated though.

I guess I see it like Rick does. As a non-competative tool to help
me get where I intended to go. Try not to get stuck in the first
place. Get out and scope thing out before charging in. Then, taking
my sweet time to get unstuck wouldn't be a problem.
If I EVER get tipped over, it's a major screw-up, deserves taking
time and care to fix, and hand winching with the Hi-Lift would
probably do. I have no idea whether or not the side-slope winching
situation would ever come up. Would I dare to go there? Not enough
experience to say.
As far as speed goes, though, I'll let the competetive guys find the
best solution for their needs, which aren't mine.

MM specs for high gear are 31-48 FPM, say 40 FPM average.
Is this more optimistic than real?
Warn specs the M12000 at 30 FPM, M8000 at 42FPM, and everyone's
favorite M8274-50 at 72 FPM at no load.
Manufacturer's specs are in the same ballpark, but people's
experience says otherwise. Hmm.

Those DVD's sound great. I would like to see them. An internet
search found lot's of places to buy in Australia, but I didn't see
any in the US.

 

[Mickldo]

ARB sponser the Outback Challenge, they might be able to get some copies to the US if enough intrest is shown???
I've got every one from '99 to '06 but copyright might not like it if I share them with everybody.

 

[AllenTenT]

Well,, I have had a warne 8000lb electric which worked just fine we put this thing to the test pulling big boats up the beach and other 4x out of the sand,, since Ive had the MM I have to say its even easier, keep in mind though the MM is a 10500lb so I dont really want to make a hydraulic vs electric comparison, i would think it depends on your aplication,, the thing I like about the MM is that you can run it all day if you like without a problem, It also came with the car, so far so good.

 

[tech_dog]

How many times does even a hard core wheeler need to recover his vehicle with a winch? It seems to me that RELIABILITY and PULLING POWER are the most important things, and pull rate won't mean much outside of the military and commercial applications.

I'm looking at the amp draw on the electrics, and that's QUITE a draw. You're not going to do much real pulling if your engine isn't running.

I just can't get over the water vulnerability that electric winches seem to have. Having a water sealed unit that can pull while submerged seems a much better feature than being able to pull with the engine off until you drain your battery.

I'm interested in seeing what the hard core experienced guys thing.

T.

 

[alia176]

Yes, pulling speed IS important, IMO. Of course this is totally subjective. I find this to be the case when it happens to be a 5:1 ratio of non winch to winch vehicle and there's a large group to pull through. I'll bet you a dozen donut, the group's preference won't be a slow hydraulic winch.

An Electric winch will pull under water. DC electric seems to work fine while submersed, with the exception of the engine running. Ever notice how the headlights still seem to work on the submersed vehicles? You can pull a long time with a dead engine, specially if you have a dual batt setup or even a high Reserve Capacity single battery. As always, common sense prevails here like any other recovery solutions.

Obviusly the comp vehicles need winch speed, so they're using Electric winches. Some are even using two winch motors on the same winch! Both types of winches are great and have pros and cons. However, this debate should probably be on another thread and it has been beaten to a bluddy pulp!!



Ali