How much lift is too much?

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today at work i found a scrap 4"x2" steel tube with a wall thickness of 1/4" that is just the right length

i also found some really thick plates.

i plan on chopping off the front spring perch on my 80 truck.

and plasma cutting duplicate OE spring hangars and welding them to the tube.

i will also make dual gussets on each side of the frame rail to the tube.

i have seen replacement perches made from weenie (compared to this steel) that were only 2"

i have never seen 4" perches. is that cause its too much?

obviously before i install this, i will have to come up with a home brew or real crossover. now i have OE dragstink
 
Depends. Is it a mall crawling show vehicle or a real truck?

Dropped spring hangers of the 1-2" variety are common for SAS applications, and even on a stock solid axle truck, as a means of gaining more clearance instead of using lift spring packs.
Typical lift springs are highly arched and therefore not very flexy.
With a dropppped hanger you can use flatter springs which are much more flexible.
 
I think it depends on what you will be doing with the truck. If it's a occasional light wheeler, then it should be OK. But if you plan to really hammer on it, then I'd think twice about dropping the hanger that much. You will need LOTS of strong gussets to stand up to the leverage if you slam on the front suspension much. I've seen the 2" SAS brackets bend the front of frames, on a brutal slam of the front.

Your shackels are gonna have to be really long to get the spring geometry correct, aren't they? Wouldn't it be better to get springs with more arch?

IMO, anything more than about 6" of lift is poseur show truck territory.
 
4" lift spring mounts? ick. ick, ick, ick, ick...

I've got an MC SAS spring hanger here sitting on a shelf - you could have it for less than the cost of the time invested in building your skyscraper of a mount.
 
i plan on wheeling the sh!t out of it.

i plan on making 2 badd ass gussets on each side and welding them with hot deep penetrating beads.

i wanted to stay flexy and keep the 2" spings that are in there.

hmmm so what i gather is its on the verge of too much, but still in the safetey zone as long as its built right.

ok. cool thanks yall
 
Ready for some backup for why you probably don't want to do bigger dropped shackle hangers on a trail vehicle? Here are some rough numbers for you. (without pictures because I have the new-guy limit still) I did a quick model of a Marlin Crawler front spring hanger for a SAS kit - probably looks like the basic design you'd use in the garage for a "home-grown" kit. Then I put in what I'm seeing for your hanger and we'll compare the results. When I can post more pictures, I'll add them to the post for you to check out.

I assumed that you're tweaking on this hanger with a quarter of the vehicle's weight and offset by the distance of the spring centerline to the center of the tire. That gives you the amount of torque that the spring hangers are going to see.

Assuming that the spring hangers each take an equal load, that gives you this amount of torque for each spring hanger:

1250lbs X 18in / 2hangers = 11,250 lb-in torque

The Marlin hanger develops about 20,000 psi at the spring bushing contact area on the inside of the (shown in the red areas on the picture that isn't yet uploaded) from your wheel. Steel can take 32,000 psi before it bends. The bent model looks like a part you'd take off of an old truck, which tells me that the model is ok for this rough analysis.

Then I add a piece of 2"x2" x 1/4" wall tubing on top of the hanger. Weld that onto your frame and then run the same loading analysis. Now the stresses jump up to 49,000 psi which means that something is going to break. Without the gussets, the break is going to happen at the weld between the top of the hanger and the bottom of your 2" tubing "spacer."

Now I add two 1/4" gussets to the hanger that you would weld to the frame. This makes the hanger stiffer, and decreases the stresses. Remember that the yield strength of steel is 32,000 psi (we're not worrying about the weld material strength of 60 or 70 ksi typical with stick welders because the hanger will break first anyways). This new model, with the gussets, develops stresses in the 42,000 psi range, way higher than the material yield strengh still.

I'd stick with some 2" hangers and spend the cash for some lift springs. Not only will your truck last longer, both on the trail and around town, but it'll be corrected for steering angles too.

Like I said at the beginning of the post, I'll attach pictures when my limit is raised for each of these studies to show where the bends/breaks will start. AND, if you have a different design in mind, describe it and I'll model that up for you...

- Brandon
 
Can you explain the 18" moment distance? I don't see where you get this.
 
I get an 18 inch moment (just a rough number since my truck is out in the parking lot) from the centerline of the wheel measured to the centerline of the spring pack. Seems about right to me...

I did another model of the 4x2x0.25 tubing hanger and it's going to put a lot of stress on the welds to the frame. How were the gussets going to look?
 
The 2" front spring hangers are rock anchors with flat springs,a 35" tire and stockish axle placement. The only reason they survive is because they are made of a thicker material. If you add another 2" on top of that it will only get worse, along with having to cut and turn the knuckles to maintain some sort of proper caster and with the added stress on the frame as said above it just does not make sense.

Remember, these frames are paper thin ;)

You would be better off recreating a better version of what you had and putting in a quality lift spring then the 4" spring hanger. The spring with a little more arch would allow for more compression when flexing to help make up for the added height.

In the greater scheme of things why do you need more lift?

Matt
 
Another thing to think about is the caster angle and pinion angle. If this is going to be driven on the street then you're going to have to correct it. The pinion angle you're going to want also depends on the type of driveshaft you're using.
 
New guy here, but I'd really suggest just saving up your funds to get a good set of inexpensive (aka - cheap) springs to do a proper lift... I'm running a el cheapo set of Pro-Comp springs and they have done me well for the last year or so... started off with a bone stock 85 PU, did the lift and shocks... had some old nasty 33's and wheeled the crap out of it for about 6 mo, then took the leap to what I have now... wheeling open, with just a little lift will teach you volumes about what a truck will and will not do, makes you pick better lines, and is relatively cheap way to start. JMHO
Chad
 

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