How much boost can 1HZ-T handle? (1 Viewer)

[Tapage]

any other head / head gasket / head studs for that engine Graeme .?

 

[gbentink]

Graeme should be able to tell us what a stock 1HD-FTE puts to the wheels. It's likely around 118kw on about 12psi boost with a tiny intercooler (about A4 paper size).

~110kW at wheels with std intercooler, 0.9 Bar

Std intercooler = 20% efficient......

Raising boost to 1.05Bar and a huge front mount, 3" exhaust mine did 132kW (167kW @ crank) - No chip etc.

A good intercooler makes a huge difference

 

[ForealBoreal]

Graeme are any of these engines known to stretch head bolts?
1HZ in particular running over 20lbs?

 

[Dougal]

Karter,
I turbo'd that HZJ75 back in 2003, fuel cranked, propane fitted conservatively, no intercooler. i drove it HARD, black smoke pouring out when the throttle was down. EGTs at 1400 max. max boost was set at 14PSI. 2.5" exhaust, lift with 35s.
i sold it a couple years later.
it ran well for him.
he sold it last year to a gent in Ontario. i had the pleasure of taking it for another spin without the propane system. it still pulled nicely. ran smoothly. this is 10 years and a couple hundred thou later.

but

according to Douglass, it should have died a painful death years ago.
plus
according to Douglass, it should have returned pitiful fuel mileage. it was on par with the HDJ81s i have driven and the power of the HZT was noticeably better than the HDT.

But the god of books will never admit he might be wrong, too proud for that. Even though more and more people have been able to experience both the HDT and the HZ.

if you were toyota and you wanted people to buy a more expensive engine, would you openly admit to the public that it actually returned poorer fuel mileage? of course not.

i have no desire to waste time with Douglass in debating the fuel mileage issues nor the ability of the 1HZ to be turbo'd and still reliable. he is like an ostrich with his head in the 'sand', his 'sand' is book knowledge.

Anyone want to buy a cruiser off Wayne now?

Did this one beat the 30MPG at 160km/h too?

Like Dabheme said:

There is only one logical conclusion. It must be a miracle.

Where is your real evidence? What afr's was it running? Did it have a compensator. I bet you 1 million$$$ I can tune the DT at 14 psi with no intercooler to run better, faster and better eco.

Just race for pink slips instead. But only if you'd want to win a vehicle that's been tuned to belch smoke and melt pistons.

 

[Dougal]

~110kW at wheels with std intercooler, 0.9 Bar

Std intercooler = 20% efficient......

Raising boost to 1.05Bar and a huge front mount, 3" exhaust mine did 132kW (167kW @ crank) - No chip etc.

A good intercooler makes a huge difference

Brilliant, thanks. So you call it about 27% through the drivetrain? Presumably in 4th with the torque converter locked?

 

[crushers]

yah, strange it is still running fine 10 years later, eh, Douglass?
must be a miracle indeed.
or
maybe the 1HZ isn't the weak cousin to the KZ and 2LTE after all.

 

[Dougal]

yah, strange it is still running fine 10 years later, eh, Douglass?
must be a miracle indeed.
or
maybe the 1HZ isn't the weak cousin to the KZ and 2LTE after all.

Right now you're struggling to copy a name from the same page correctly. That makes it kind of hard to believe your 10 year recollections are in any way accurate.

You haven't driven a 1HD-FT or FTE have you?

 

[crushers]

actually, my recollections are just fine.
the point was made, you just can't accept the fact the 1HZ is a good engine and that it can stand up to a turbo just fine ... for years.
BTW, full disclosure was made before the sale so your accusations are insulting.

considering your personal experience with a 1HZ is nil, your book knowledge is suspect at best.

 

[Dougal]

actually, my recollections are just fine.
the point was made, you just can't accept the fact the 1HZ is a good engine and that it can stand up to a turbo just fine ... for years.
BTW, full disclosure was made before the sale so your accusations are insulting.

considering your personal experience with a 1HZ is nil, your book knowledge is suspect at best.

Yeah, I can't accept an HDJ81 doing 30mpg at 160km/h either. Same author, both claims.

So what do you say to the 1HZ owners on this forum who have experienced piston failures and compression loss with aftermarket turbos?

Here is a quote from you earlier in this same thread:

unless you love to haul ass you will seldom see 15 lbs during normal operation. i have run a constant 14 psi setting on a number of my trucks over the years with no issues.
normally you will see 5-7 lbs on the highway, 8-11 on hills and you MIGHT see 15 lbs on a hill pulling a trailer with a heavy foot but the pyro will tell yah to smarten up.

So you never actually used 15psi?

That it's their fault for using the available power?

i read a few of the links, didn't have much free time today ... seems once again that it is a lack of proper installation of all parts needed:
http://www.all-american.nl/products/toyota/70/performance/
LDA
doesn't take long to find if you want to do the install properly.
cost? cheaper than a junk engine if you can't control your right foot.

it comes down the engine condition before turbo, fuel setting and driving style after turbo. it really is just that simple.

There ya go. Driving style.

Back in the 1960's it might have been acceptable for an engine to die because rated power was requested from it.

 

[ForealBoreal]

Graeme, i knew the dyno I posted earlier was from a 1hd-t. I did it for a comparison that a 1hz at that boost range with the correct safe fuel to suit can produce similar power figures.

Douglass ahahah that kinda sticks.
Anyways,
Since you ask for proof out of everything I have claimed.

Yeah, I can't accept an HDJ81 doing 30mpg at 160km/h either. Same author, both claims.

Prove that. Show me the thread buddy...

So what do you say to the 1HZ owners on this forum who have experienced piston failures and compression loss with aftermarket turbos?

Turn your fuel level down, set a safe max EGT, drive by the pyro, set proper AFRs.....

Your a bit of a smart ass, chill out. You get bullied as a kid or something and your big rebellious comeback is being a keyboard hero? I can't imagine some of the comments you leave on youtube videos. You must have made "top comment".

Hats off to a guy like Graeme who is putting down some real data on what these things can do. Proving that yes you can get some real power out of these things.

Douglass unless you have some legitimate REAL data to put down on 1HZ turbos. Fxxx off.
I don't need you spamming up this thread with your opinion that DI engines are better.
It seems you have a problem reading that

SOME PEOPLE WANT TO MODIFY WHAT THEY HAVE

if your on a mac I can walk you through how to get the computer to speak that to you if you have problems reading it.

Good day.

 

[Dougal]

Douglass ahahah that kinda sticks.
Anyways,
Since you ask for proof out of everything I have claimed.

Wow, you're as petty as Wayne.

Prove that. Show me the thread buddy...

It's actually 28mpg at 130-150km/h in a HDJ81.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/51487-hdj81-fuel-consumption-test-run.html

Turn your fuel level down, set a safe max EGT, drive by the pyro, set proper AFRs.....

Once you've done all that. Your power and torque gains just aren't there.

Stock a 1HZ runs very rich. Around 16:1 at full load.
To pull the A/F ratio up to 22:1 requires boost of 12psi.

At this point you've got safe EGT, safe A/F ratio and only 7kw more than it was non-turbo. Yes you have an efficiency gain, but that's it.

Your a bit of a smart ass, chill out. You get bullied as a kid or something and your big rebellious comeback is being a keyboard hero? I can't imagine some of the comments you leave on youtube videos. You must have made "top comment".

You're really laying on the personal insults today.
Got nothing else left?

Hats off to a guy like Graeme who is putting down some real data on what these things can do. Proving that yes you can get some real power out of these things.

Which example was that?

Douglass unless you have some legitimate REAL data to put down on 1HZ turbos. **** off.
I don't need you spamming up this thread with your opinion that DI engines are better.
It seems you have a problem reading that

More personal insults, still no useful information.

SOME PEOPLE WANT TO MODIFY WHAT THEY HAVE

So get on and do it then. You think it'll be awesome, go and make it awesome.
If you want someone to hold your hand and tell you that it'll beat all the other engines for power and economy. Then sorry, it won't.
We're not going to sugar coat it. If you want to push a 1HZ for power you have to be prepared to get it towed home.
If you can't afford to rebuild the engine from scratch, then you shouldn't be playing this game.

if your on a mac I can walk you through how to get the computer to speak that to you if you have problems reading it.

Good day.

Mac user huh?

 

[ForealBoreal]

It's actually 28mpg at 130-150km/h in a HDJ81.

Read it again, bursts.
I thought you have been praising this entire time how good fuel economy and power a DI delivers

Once you've done all that. Your power and torque gains just aren't there.

Aren't there? In what comparison? So your DI engine is better. Woopty fxxxing do. The IDI counterpart is still very capable, maybe not to the extent of being better on paper. Still putting out good numbers...

Another example that you can gawk at in disbelief and criticize
Putting 15psi and a good tune putting out 150.

Here is some info on it:

Ok I will start this one...... with out turbo she cranked up a wopping 69 hp with 33 bfg muds and finshed with a turbo from denco a new fuel pump a compensator 13 psi and a top mounted ic from dts and finshed with 152 rwhp with 35 claws (MY OLD UTE)

Seems like a pretty substancial increase in power if you ask me....

Stock a 1HZ runs very rich. Around 16:1 at full load.
To pull the A/F ratio up to 22:1 requires boost of 12psi.

At this point you've got safe EGT, safe A/F ratio and only 7kw more than it was non-turbo. Yes you have an efficiency gain, but that's it.

Which example was that?

Read some of the information he has put up since being here. Not just in this thread.

So get on and do it then. You think it'll be awesome, go and make it awesome.
If you want someone to hold your hand and tell you that it'll beat all the other engines for power and economy. Then sorry, it won't.
We're not going to sugar coat it. If you want to push a 1HZ for power you have to be prepared to get it towed home.
If you can't afford to rebuild the engine from scratch, then you shouldn't be playing this game.

All in time,
I am apparently already "risking" my engine with an aftermarket turbo.
I'm not looking for a sugar coated answer at all.

What I do not like is someone telling me I am wasting my time because of their narrow once sided point of view and down talking peoples results.

I think most people are aware in the dangers of turboing a non turbo engine.....

 

[Dougal]

Read it again, bursts.
I thought you have been praising this entire time how good fuel economy and power a DI delivers

There is good power and economy. Then there is outright BS.

I don't think you've been reading and digesting what has been written in this thread.
So I'll write it out again. This is a point you really need to understand.

I will recap the 12psi example from the post just been.
Start with a stock 1HZ.
Running A/F ratio of 16:1 (ludicrously rich, that's why they smoke)
Producing 96kw of power at 3,800rpm.

If you turbo it, the average cylinder temperature rises. Because you are feeding it warm boost and increasing the pressures also.

This is why we can't run the same A/F ratios or EGT in a turbo engine as we can in a NA engine.
We need to run leaner and cooler in a turbo engine to keep the time averaged cylinder temperatures within safe limits.

For a 1HZ it appears 22:1 is good and safe.

To move the A/F ratio out to 22:1 we need to provide a lot of boost without adding any fuel.
In fact we need to push boost to 12psi.

This means you need to push boost higher than 12psi before you can safely add any fuel to a 1HZ.
At this 12psi point, you will only have about 7kw more power than you had stock.

This is the point you just don't seem to be getting. But it's one of the most vital concepts if you want to wind up a 1HZ.

Anyone getting 150hp from a 15psi 1HZ tune does not understand this point. They are creating a hot and unsafe tune. The DTS turbo kits have already been mentioned in this thread. I wouldn't be proud of the results. I'd be scared.

Anyone can crank up the fuel and get numbers on a dyno. Making a good safe tune produce power is a whole lot harder. With an engine like the 1HZ isn't even harder still.
If you don't understand the basics, you are not going to succeed. It'll be an exercise in making expensive scrap.

I'm not looking for a sugar coated answer at all.

Just arguing with everyone who gives you the answers you don't want to hear and making s*** up in between.

I think most people are aware in the dangers of turboing a non turbo engine.....

It's not about turbocharging a non turbo engine. That's done correctly all the time.
It's about not understanding the limitations and recognising the danger signs in a bad tune.

 

[wrongway around]

Wow ,I haven't read the whole thread but a lot of good s*** I'm seeing so far. I guess someone is changing there plans of a twin turbo . Aftermarket turbo that was a good one.

 

[ForealBoreal]

Even Graeme has told me to run it 20:1 afr

In the end if a stock one is running quite rich at 16:1 afr

Safari for example in their tuning guide recommends:
Boost 10-12psi for the waste gate actuator
Full load/full throttle at 3500RPM - 4000RPM after 1min at full load/full throttle
Measured in the EGT Port (in the turbocharger inlet - Preferred position) = 650 deg C
1000RPM = 15.5:1 - 16.0:1 at full load/full throttle
3000RPM = 20.0:1 - 20.5:1 at full load/full throttle

Your still running a leaner mix into the engine taking into account the engines EGTs and AFR you can still have a substantial hp/torque gain while still maintaining reliability.

Sure the DI engines may for the exact same amount of fuel and boost level provide more power. Ok.
You can still melt pistons on a bad tune on a DI engine. its all on how its tuned (egt/afr) and how it is driven... If your going to be negligent and take it higher than recommended temperatures your asking for trouble.

 

[Dougal]

Your still running a leaner mix into the engine taking into account the engines EGTs and AFR you can still have a substantial hp/torque gain while still maintaining reliability.

No, it doesn't work like that.

To get 22:1 you need 12psi with no extra fuel.
To get 20:1 you need 8psi with no extra fuel.

At this point there is no significant power or torque gain. This is the safety buffer these engines need.

You still don't get that.

Sure the DI engines may for the exact same amount of fuel and boost level provide more power. Ok.

First. The Di engines don't need a big A/F safety buffer. They don't need that extra 8-12psi boost just for protection.
There is no performance gain in this buffer, if you attempt to use it, you're risking your engine.

Second. From that point, the idi needs even more air and fuel to produce the same power because of it's lower efficiency.

You can still melt pistons on a bad tune on a DI engine. its all on how its tuned (egt/afr) and how it is driven... If your going to be negligent and take it higher than recommended temperatures your asking for trouble.

I have seen 900C (1650F) on my Isuzu EGT gauge. I have held it at 750C (1380F) for minutes on end. Hasn't hurt anything yet.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Wow threads like this color some posters in a whole new light. Nothing like stooping to foul name calling to try and make a point....speaking of bullies.

 

[BCR4619]

this is not way over my head, but a good read!

 

[ForealBoreal]

No, it doesn't work like that.

To get 22:1 you need 12psi with no extra fuel.
To get 20:1 you need 8psi with no extra fuel.

At this point there is no significant power or torque gain. This is the safety buffer these engines need.

would love Graeme's input on this or people who actually tune these engines.
So if Graeme gets guys running 20:1 higher boost and more fuel there will be more power.....

I have seen 900C (1650F) on my Isuzu EGT gauge. I have held it at 750C (1380F) for minutes on end. Hasn't hurt anything yet.

Talked to a guy running 20lbs of boost who hammers on his truck, mentions good AFRs in the past and has taken it as high as 1600F or something stupid for while not paying attention to the EGT.

Waynes old 75 running 1400deg F of hard use.

Plenty of the aussie guys running s***ty AFRs and with 600 deg post turbo temps and they are still ticking...
Plenty who have cooked them but there are others out there faring just fine.

Its all on how you drive them.

 

[Douglas S]

Wow threads like this color some posters in a whole new light. Nothing like stooping to foul name calling to try and make a point....speaking of bullies.

My thoughts exactly.