matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
I still think you can take some of the things I did and do it on a budget.
Help me plan for a 2FE
- Thread starter RockDoc
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- Thread starter
- #62
I hope to dig into your thread again later tonight to see the details, but can you give me the quick and dirty of what benefit the Jag rods and Chev pistons offer? Do the rods have a greater length coupled to a shorter pin center to top separation for the pistons? Or is it a matter of weight and strength? Simple pick of ARP bolts for the Jag rods?
*edit* I'm not through yet to see that they were the final choices, but $1100 for the rods and $800 for the pistons before coatings?
That's about $100 more than the cost of the truck this is going into PLUS what was shelled out for the 2 drivetrains that are being combined to go in it.*edit 2* Okay, only $270 for the Jag rods..... and $1850 for the pistons and ring sets.....
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- Thread starter
- #63
Okay, pic overload time.
Looking at the pistons/rods from the rear of the engine:
From the front of the engine:
From the left (NA driver's) side of the engine. Here you can start to see the scoring of the piston skirts. The scoring is more even top to bottom on the right (pass) side, and more concentrated at the top of the skirt on the left (driver's) side. I'm assuming that's a result of rocking/side loading during compression and exhaust strokes from the offset of the pin:
6&5
4&3
2&1
From right side (NA passenger's):
6&5
4&3
2&1
TEQ cast into the inside of the pistons:
The other side is cast with
P
ART
27
Stolen from Matt's thread, a comparison of piston/rod geometries between the 2F and 3F:
Looking at the pistons/rods from the rear of the engine:
From the front of the engine:
From the left (NA driver's) side of the engine. Here you can start to see the scoring of the piston skirts. The scoring is more even top to bottom on the right (pass) side, and more concentrated at the top of the skirt on the left (driver's) side. I'm assuming that's a result of rocking/side loading during compression and exhaust strokes from the offset of the pin:
6&5
4&3
2&1
From right side (NA passenger's):
6&5
4&3
2&1
TEQ cast into the inside of the pistons:
The other side is cast with
P
ART
27
Stolen from Matt's thread, a comparison of piston/rod geometries between the 2F and 3F:
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- Thread starter
- #64
Tops of the pistons, no markings I can find other than the indentation to mark orientation of the piston in the engine.
Bearing shells:
6
5
4
3
2
1
So what say yee experienced builders of engines? Bearings look pretty good for 250 000 miles? Pistons are scrap and I'm going to be into this for new pistons and punching out the block on top of the rebuild basics? Any reason to go mild with the overbore (0.020" or 0.5mm) or do you go for broke (0.060" or 1.5mm)? Keep it to "stock" rebuild parts or is it worth it to look into "custom" parts combos like Matt used for the super 2F? Is there a thread out there with a decent discussion of oiling system mods? (I'll see what's detailed in your thread Matt) I know Mark had some about this in an old issue of trails, I'll have to track that down as it is before I became a member.
Bearing shells:
6
5
4
3
2
1
So what say yee experienced builders of engines? Bearings look pretty good for 250 000 miles? Pistons are scrap and I'm going to be into this for new pistons and punching out the block on top of the rebuild basics? Any reason to go mild with the overbore (0.020" or 0.5mm) or do you go for broke (0.060" or 1.5mm)? Keep it to "stock" rebuild parts or is it worth it to look into "custom" parts combos like Matt used for the super 2F? Is there a thread out there with a decent discussion of oiling system mods? (I'll see what's detailed in your thread Matt) I know Mark had some about this in an old issue of trails, I'll have to track that down as it is before I became a member.
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matt.mcinnes
2F-ETI
I hope to dig into your thread again later tonight to see the details, but can you give me the quick and dirty of what benefit the Jag rods and Chev pistons offer? Do the rods have a greater length coupled to a shorter pin center to top separation for the pistons? Or is it a matter of weight and strength? Simple pick of ARP bolts for the Jag rods?
*edit* I'm not through yet to see that they were the final choices, but $1100 for the rods and $800 for the pistons before coatings?
*edit 2* Okay, only $270 for the Jag rods..... and $1850 for the pistons and ring sets.....
Yes but you don't need to buy JE, turbo, teflon and ceramic coated.
Any after market piston for that GM engine maybe a possibility.
- Thread starter
- #66
True, the pistons would still have to be machined for the proper separation between the wrist pin and top though, correct? (Is "comp height" here the pin-top separation? The sum of rod length and comp height must remain constant, but they can vary together?) What benefit do the Jag rods bring? Strength? Weight reduction? Will those benefits show through with an engine redlining at 4500 or 5000?
I suppose another question is, what is the cost of a set of "stock" oversize pistons for a 2F? Off to Marshall's thread..... Sorry if I sound like a stick in the mud over departing from "stock" parts, but I started out with this block hoping for as cheap (in terms of parts and shop costs) a rebuild as possible, doing what I can at home to save coin and learn.
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I have a set of hi-compression 2F pistons, and cam.
They came from a Man A Fre Hi performance engine.
I would really like to sell them to you but.
Once you figured out you could not use the 3FE head with them, you would be angry with me.
They came from a Man A Fre Hi performance engine.
I would really like to sell them to you but.
Once you figured out you could not use the 3FE head with them, you would be angry with me.
- Thread starter
- #68
Would the cam and matched lifters sell separately from the pistons? The the grind numbers MAF has on it look good. Maybe we'll have to talk after I pull the cam.
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PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Nice work Doc - I appreciate the detailed tear-down process...
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I have rebuilt exactly 1 motor-a VW in the early 1980s so not a ton of experience. However, I would build a mild "normal" engine. If the first overbore is enough to clean up the cylinders, do that and use Toyota pistons, get the motor balanced, and use good rings, timing gears and camshaft. Maybe use the Chevy stainless valves that JimC talks about. You will likely get another 250k or more out of the motor with no real effort.
The risk of custom stuff is that you'll need to re-do it, or it will be so high strung that it won't be great as an all-around vehicle, suitable for trips to the ends of the earth.
Looking forward to the choices you make. I have all the ingredients for the same for a future project.
The risk of custom stuff is that you'll need to re-do it, or it will be so high strung that it won't be great as an all-around vehicle, suitable for trips to the ends of the earth.
Looking forward to the choices you make. I have all the ingredients for the same for a future project.
- Thread starter
- #72
It'll get chevy valves, and a few other tweaks
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/253031-improving-flow-3fe%92s-top-end.html- Thread starter
- #73
Any reason to check the crankshaft thrust clearance or Plastigauge the main bearings on disassembly if I'm planning to replace them? (Assuming not, but better safe than sorry)
How do I get the three huge ass staked screws that hold the front plate loose? Do I need some kind of socket driven flathead bit?
How do I get the three huge ass staked screws that hold the front plate loose? Do I need some kind of socket driven flathead bit?
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PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Doc,
I want to confirm a few things:
1) Is the '83 2F equipped with Domed pistons?
2) Is the 3FE head compatible with domed pistons?
I want to confirm a few things:
1) Is the '83 2F equipped with Domed pistons?
2) Is the 3FE head compatible with domed pistons?
I have both an 83 block and 3FE head for my 2FE build. The 83 uses flat top pistons, and the 3FE is a closed chamber head that requires flat top pistons.
- Thread starter
- #76
As FrontRange said, no on both fronts, but you can swap out pistons if you have domed ones.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
When did the 2F start using flat top pistons?
- Thread starter
- #78
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Thanks. I have been in that thread, but I thought for sure I just read somewhere recently that domed psitons went all the way up to '85...
Either way, I am hosed if I want 2FE in my '78 40 that was rebuilt a few years back.
Thanks!
- Thread starter
- #80
I think '85 was the change to the world market 3F head... but that thread would show for sure.
