Help me choose a winch (1 Viewer)

[Mark W]

I doubt that we have EVER had an '80 hit the trail with us weighting less than 6000 pounds. If you think that is absurd, you have either never actually weighed your '80 or you only go out on day/weekend trips with little real gear on board.

Calling a 10K winch overkill on an '80 shows a lack of real world experience with this rig. We have had to double line 10K winches on '80s quite often. Moving an '80 mired in deep peat, soft swamp, glacial silt, clay... or pretty much anything is like dragging a dead elephant through the same stuff.

10K is the minimum i would install on an '80 unless I was just bolting one on that I had laying around until I got around to buying the right winch. At least one of our guys is running a 12K and I have had a couple of others out with us running 12k winches too. In fact one pull called for a 12k and a 10K winch both pulling to get an '80 free.


Mark...

 

[RTB falcon]

Yea I am guy that only goes on mostly day trips because I have school during the week. And no I have never weighed my 80, and have only gotten in one situation ever that my lockers couldnt get me out of. And I am trying to do a somewhat expedition style build and I know the lower I keep my weight the better it will be for me. Im not saying that 10k is totally unnecessary, but I believe that 9k will do the job just as well. Hell the one time I got stuck a jeep with an 8k winch is the one that pulled me out (to my great displeasure). And the terrain you and I go through is very different. The only thing I ever got stuck in was some very soft and deep mud. Other than that I mostly see rocky hills where getting mired in silt is not a concern. So I would say it depends on where you mostly drive. Of course if i can get a good deal on a more powerful winch I will grab it, but I am under a students budget and cant spend 7k dollars on my rig to totally build it right away.

 

[Stumpalama]

The wise ones have spoken. RTBFalcon, I would check the curriculum vitae of the people I am arguing with if they have over 5,000 posts. Chances are they are one of the known "gurus" on the forum. Pssst: among them are mace, markw, poser, fj40jim to name a few. I have yet to see them give anything but sound advice. I put a 12K on my LX450 and passed up a 10k because it may have been adequate, but not ideal.

 

[RTB falcon]

I understand these may be the gurus of these forums but it is wrong to assume that suddenly everybody has the money to dish out for their LCs and thats it. Im not saying i dont trust them, Im just saying see things from my point of view, that extra power may cost me several more hundred dollars. Money I can put towards tires or a custom rear bumper. I know Im an oddity on this forum, still being in college, and maybe that is why some people dont see my point.

 

[Mark W]

Yea I am guy that only goes on mostly day trips because I have school during the week. And no I have never weighed my 80, and have only gotten in one situation ever that my lockers couldnt get me out of. And I am trying to do a somewhat expedition style build and I know the lower I keep my weight the better it will be for me. Im not saying that 10k is totally unnecessary, but I believe that 9k will do the job just as well. Hell the one time I got stuck a jeep with an 8k winch is the one that pulled me out (to my great displeasure). And the terrain you and I go through is very different. The only thing I ever got stuck in was some very soft and deep mud. Other than that I mostly see rocky hills where getting mired in silt is not a concern. So I would say it depends on where you mostly drive. Of course if i can get a good deal on a more powerful winch I will grab it, but I am under a students budget and cant spend 7k dollars on my rig to totally build it right away.

That works. If it works for you and your rig, then... well, it works for you and your rig. And that is what matters when it comes time to make decisions for you and your rig.



But it is a far cry from statements that '80s never go over 6000 pounds or that 10k winches are overkill.

It is easy to get focused on limited circumstances and want to interpolate that to the larger picture. gotta be careful with that though.

A lot of the parameters that I worry about with my personal trail rigs are not at all what would be appropriate on the Rubicon or the hammers... or in the suburbs of Chicago for that matter. and most rigs built for those places and uses would be working under a handicap if they hit the trails for some serious exploring in these parts.


Mark...

 

[RTB falcon]

I guess things got a little distorted and I got a little heated. I wasnt saying the thought of a 6k pound cruiser was absurd, I meant the thought that coming straight off the factory line and weighing 6k pounds was absurd. Bigger is always better and as LC owners we all know that

 

[Mark W]

I understand these may be the gurus of these forums but it is wrong to assume that suddenly everybody has the money to dish out for their LCs and thats it. Im not saying i dont trust them, Im just saying see things from my point of view, that extra power may cost me several more hundred dollars. Money I can put towards tires or a custom rear bumper. I know Im an oddity on this forum, still being in college, and maybe that is why some people dont see my point.

I came in late here, and to be honest did not read through the entire thread. But I am not advocating any approach at all. and I don't thunk mace was either. Just pointing out the facts.


I take it that you are the OP of the thread. You asked for advice I guess. Beyond that I am assuming nothing. My input is simply addressing what strength winch is appropriate on an '80, based on a fair bit of experience wrangling rigs and groups of rig through country that offers opportunities to get them seriously stuck.


How you chose to equip your rig really really means nothing to me.. I don't say that in any sort of spiteful or petty way. Again, just facts.



Mark...

 

[RTB falcon]

Im not the OP but Ive noticed a trend of people recommending only mainstream, over the top products. Perfect example being the ARB bumper for the 80 series. I guess I need to explain my point better in the future.

 

[Mark W]

Im not the OP but Ive noticed a trend of people recommending only mainstream, over the top products. Perfect example being the ARB bumper for the 80 series. I guess I need to explain my point better in the future.

Okay, I went back and read the entire thread.

You should have quit when you were... well, not too far behind...

This thread had good info flowing back and forth, opposing opinions presented, facts applied... then you joined with stridently worded and erroneous comments about the weight of the rigs involved and the need/lack of need for heavy winches.

And you try to close with a comment that implies that those of us who attempted to correct your flawed position are simply submitting to some sort of peer pressure or hunting for bragging rights as opposed to maybe actually knowing what we are talking about and basing our thoughts on a lot of widely varied real world experience???


Really?





I am trying to think of the last time a college student who has only been stuck one time and uses his rig primarily in one type of terrain, walked into the shop and took that position in a discussion with the crew as we got ready to hit the trail, as we came off of it,or as we built rigs for it.

Hmmmm still trying to remember ... nope, don't think that has ever happened in the real world. and hopefully it never will... guys could get hurt falling to the floor with laughter.

Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but really... think about it a little. Some of us have been doing this longer than most college kids have been around. IF we happen to support a "mainstream" argument on something, it is likely because mainstream has followed us and others like us to get to where it is at.


After you have a few years of experience and a few thousand miles of trail under your wheels you will have a little more credibility when you choose to make those sort of implications about the rest of us.

(Although being called mainstream makes me think of how the guys I wheel with would be busting out laughing at that one as well.)



Mark...

 

[Stumpalama]

Differing opinions are not the issue. There are plenty of options for bumpers, tires, suspensions etc... no right or wrong answers here, they are predominantly personal preference.
A winch, on the other hand, is a piece of equipment that can mean a successful recovery or a long frustrating, exhausting day... or worse.
If you can't afford the proper gear at the time, then don't take your rig into terrain where you may have to rely on inferior or inadequate equipment. Wait until you can afford it, then get it and move to the next level.

When I was building my FJ40 up, I wanted lockers so I could challange myself on more difficult trails and had yet to buy a winch. My buddy gave me some wise advise, he said lockers will get you into places that only a winch will get you out of; get the winch first. I bought a used 8274 off ebay for $300, bought a rebuild kit and new line and got to work. It is just as good as the new $1200 winch for less than 1/2 that.
My used 12K warn was around $500. Not a whole lot of money for a big winch.
Too many people get caught up on the "look" of their rig and spend lots on a fancy lift kit, because they think "taller is better" and accessories, then bitch about the cost of useful equipment. Meanwhile there are plenty of folks out there who will get to the top of the climb in a bone stock rig with 31's and a proper sized winch while you spin your 4" lift and 35"s
Did you drop coin on a suspension lift?
There is danger in recommending something to someone when you have very limited experience. You would have the ass of one of your freshmen if they made the same reach you did.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

Missed in this discussion is if you are really stuck bad - how much winch time do you have with a 8,000 or 12,000 lb winch?

The 8,000 and 12,000 lb Warn winches have a 4.6 hp motor. At 12 volts these winches will want 285 amps at a full pull - which your battery and alternator can only deliver for a very short while.

If you have an 80 amp alternator the battery must supply the other 205 amps - guess how long that will last?

 

[Stumpalama]

Missed in this discussion is if you are really stuck bad - how much winch time do you have with a 8,000 or 12,000 lb winch?

The 8,000 and 12,000 lb Warn winches have a 4.6 hp motor. At 12 volts these winches will want 285 amps at a full pull - which your battery and alternator can only deliver for a very short while.

If you have an 80 amp alternator the battery must supply the other 205 amps - guess how long that will last?

How long are you REALLY STUCK? Are you winching your rig up a 200ft 80* cliff? That 285 amps is a peak amperage and the load goes down as you spool more cable. If your truck is 6K and you have an 8K winch and you are REALLY STUCK you will stress that motor more than you would if you had the same rig and a 12k winch.

Me: 190 amp alt (overkill) and 2 marine start/deepcycle batteries. Apparently, they are way overkill too.
Glenn: How many sheer pins do you go through on your PTO when you are REALLY STUCK? ('07 or was it '08? Island Rock Crawlers Mt Benson snow run)

 

[Mace]

Really stuck varies by terrain. Winching for long periods is likely a lot more prevalent in Alaska than Southern California.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

How long are you REALLY STUCK? Are you winching your rig up a 200ft 80* cliff? That 285 amps is a peak amperage and the load goes down as you spool more cable. If your truck is 6K and you have an 8K winch and you are REALLY STUCK you will stress that motor more than you would if you had the same rig and a 12k winch.

Me: 190 amp alt (overkill) and 2 marine start/deepcycle batteries. Apparently, they are way overkill too.
Glenn: How many sheer pins do you go through on your PTO when you are REALLY STUCK? ('07 or was it '08? Island Rock Crawlers Mt Benson snow run)

Good to hear from you mate.
That comment is simply to remind people there are time limits on electric winches no matter how big. I fully realize that 98% of recoveries can be accomplished in less than 20 minutes, which most electric winches, alternators and batteries can handle. But in very extreme cases - some recoveries can take a lot winching and electric winches start getting slower and slower and slower till they pull no more.
After that shear pin breaking on my PTO - I bought a Warn 8274, but never installed it. I have since fixed the PTO – installed 2x10 mm cap screws to replace the mickey mouse OEM shear pin, 4 new U joints, new Amsteel - pulls like a champ now – all day long.

 

[Stumpalama]

I'm glad you took my humor as it was intended. That day is, somehow, etched vividly in my mind. I think I can recall most of every wheeling trip I did those 4 years on the island, but that one sticks out because I think there were a record number of trucks stuck all in a line. The words shear pin were mentioned a rcord number of times that day. It was a blast and I was pulled out by Chet's V-6 Vitara on 35's, or even 33's maybe? What ever they were that thing just floated over that snow.

Back to the PTO, how do you protect the drivetrain if you removed the shear pin? I'm glad to hear it's working for you.

Ahhh, I miss it up there.

Cheers,
Stump

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

That was a classic learning lesson for the PTO - Oh I it was your hi-lift that got me off high center!!

I am doing more long distance trips now - Chilcotin, Mackenzie Trail (several trips written up in Toyota Trails of past) and Cruise Moab-2010, 2011, 2012. For 2013 - Moab and Rubicon if the rig holds together. Oh now Dealth Valley is in my sights!
Never yet winched in the desert - no mud holes.

 

[Stumpalama]

Yes it was! I remember my buddy, Sean, running it up and down the hill. Good times! I've kept track of your exploits into the lower mainland and enjoyed reading the trails articles.

 

[frankl36]

not worth the $$$$$$$$

bought one of these and first time I used it it stripped the gears and try to call the Canada warehouse that I bought it from and it`s an answering machine that you have to leave your name and number.
After many left messages with no call back, I wrote 4 e-mails a day for a week with still no answers.....
so I call their USA wholesalers with same treatment, and after about a week I got a reply telling me that they don`t keep replacement parts for them winches and they didn`t know where to get them!!!!!
The waranty states that they warranty the gear case for life and 3 years on other parts!!!
all I want is the 3 gears that stripped, and am willing to pay for it, but just can`t get them!!!!
don`t be fooled by the good reviews on these winches, like I was......I got what I thought was a good deal,,,a brand new 500$ winch that don`t work!!!

 

[Southeast Overland]

bought one of these and first time I used it it stripped the gears and try to call the Canada warehouse that I bought it from and it`s an answering machine that you have to leave your name and number.
After many left messages with no call back, I wrote 4 e-mails a day for a week with still no answers.....
so I call their USA wholesalers with same treatment, and after about a week I got a reply telling me that they don`t keep replacement parts for them winches and they didn`t know where to get them!!!!!
The waranty states that they warranty the gear case for life and 3 years on other parts!!!
all I want is the 3 gears that stripped, and am willing to pay for it, but just can`t get them!!!!
don`t be fooled by the good reviews on these winches, like I was......I got what I thought was a good deal,,,a brand new 500$ winch that don`t work!!!

Which winch are you talking of?

 

[fishEH]

Which winch are you talking of?

Canada?? Sounds like the Runva.
I was thiiiiiiiiiiis close to buying a Runva. In hindsight I'm glad I didn't.