Headers vs. refreshing the OEM manifold? (2020 Edition)

[rhah]

Desmoged and has served me well on X2 cruisers now

is it an improvement over stock . Stock seems pretty header to me but like you I needed a new manifold, this was the cheapest easiest option at the time

would do again

 

[cruisermatt]

Even with TBI, the heat riser helps. My Sniper hates the cold intake on these 17° mornings. There is a kit to plumb warm coolant to the void left behind under the intake if you ditch the stock exhaust manifold. I'm thinking I should source one. Anybody know?

you could just fix your tune

 

[GeologistFelix]

May I ask why go through all that work for a 2f?
New exhaust and Holley sniper your looking at close to 2k dollars.

you can do a v8 swap for less and an LS swap for basically the same price.

Please, show me step by step how you do an LS swap for $2k while keeping a manual transmission. If I wanted an auto, I wouldn't own a 60, period, and I can see literally no way to get all the parts to adapt ANY V8 to my truck in front of ANY manual for even close to $2k.

- Advance Adapters wants $2400 just for their LS-to-H42/H55 version of Mark's Adapter, and $1500 for the non-LS one (probably because you don't need a custom flywheel/clutch/etc. setup unlike the LS?)
- They want $800ish to put an NV4500 (which also needs the right bellhousing which is $$$ to find in a hurry) which I've never seen one of for under $1k used on this side of the US, at least since ~2015ish.
- A Ranger Torque Splitter is $1700.

Add in that the Ranger also needs _some_ bellhousing and clutch provisions which I'd have to spend real, actual money on, all of these require hundreds in exhaust work (west coast shop labor ain't cheap, even in Idaho), and it's neither free nor particularly cheap to solve the fuel line/pump/etc. problems with going to MPFI from the 2F either. Different engine accessory brackets, exhaust headers, etc. which might turn out to be necessary to make the thing fit could easily add hundreds to the project cost, too.

I've also priced every possible kind of V8 from seized carb 350 core to used to rebuilt to crate, and the 'cheap but also worth having' ones simply don't exist like they did in 2010 or 1995. Maybe in Kansas, but people want stupid money for a running Tahoe out here these days.

Add in that I'm not interested in different axles, SOA, or (in case it wasn't clear) a slushbox, and that I don't have a welder or access to 220V, and I wouldn't even really know how to weld worth a crap if you put all the right tools in front of me, I'm utterly unconvinced a $2k V8 swap is, in fact, possible for me, period.

Meanwhile, TBI is no welding (unless you decide to 'finish' the self-tap/weld-later-if-you-want exhaust bung), 95% bolt-in, and solves 100% of my running issues all at once. The truck also *almost* drives well enough for my purposes, except for cold starts, high altitude performance, and horrible exhaust stink. A little more seat of pants power would be great, but 4.11 gears and H55f are going to do plenty to solve that. If it looks like *only* $2k will let me have my (imperfect, slow, 2F) cake and eat it, too, without months of engine swap headaches, that seems like an obvious choice to get the truck going on adventures again.

Now, notice that I also said, in my most recent reply before this, that I'm probably swapping a V8 or building a 2FE in next year. If I can afford it, I'm just gonna do it right and do it once, and an absolutely-cheapest LS swap ain't what I've got in mind.

 

[MoaByte]

you could just fix your tune

If I let it warm up for 10 minutes, the idle smoothes out. If the MAT (manifold absolute temp) is below 32°, it isn't nearly as responsive. Any suggestions?

 

[cruisermatt]

Please, show me step by step how you do an LS swap for $2k while keeping a manual transmission. If I wanted an auto, I wouldn't own a 60, period, and I can see literally no way to get all the parts to adapt ANY V8 to my truck in front of ANY manual for even close to $2k.

you haven't looked hard enough yet. AA bellhousing to H42/55 is $400. Having a 4.8 or 5.3 running standalone on stock ECU with all accessories present can easily be done for <$500 if you are thrifty and resourceful. Engine mounts, radiator hoses, fuel line don't have to cost anything if you don't want them to.

But you did a really nice job on your manifold repair, and I really like the countersunk depth matched holes you did. I will be copying that on future customer repairs for sure.

 

[cruisermatt]

If I let it warm up for 10 minutes, the idle smoothes out. If the MAT (manifold absolute temp) is below 32°, it isn't nearly as responsive. Any suggestions?

Yes, read Holley's tuning guide

 

[GeologistFelix]

you haven't looked hard enough yet. AA bellhousing to H42/55 is $400. Having a 4.8 or 5.3 running standalone on stock ECU with all accessories present can easily be done for <$500 if you are thrifty and resourceful. Engine mounts, radiator hoses, fuel line don't have to cost anything if you don't want them to.

But you did a really nice job on your manifold repair, and I really like the countersunk depth matched holes you did. I will be copying that on future customer repairs for sure.

I think you're thinking of Miloslavich -- my manifold is leaking like a sieve and gonna get the most slapdash gasket surface fix that works

 

[cruisermatt]

I think you're thinking of Miloslavich -- my manifold is leaking like a sieve and gonna get the most slapdash gasket surface fix that works

Yep, you're right, he did the good job

 

[rhah]

Please, show me step by step how you do an LS swap for $2k while keeping a manual transmission. If I wanted an auto, I wouldn't own a 60, period, and I can see literally no way to get all the parts to adapt ANY V8 to my truck in front of ANY manual for even close to $2k.

- Advance Adapters wants $2400 just for their LS-to-H42/H55 version of Mark's Adapter, and $1500 for the non-LS one (probably because you don't need a custom flywheel/clutch/etc. setup unlike the LS?)
- They want $800ish to put an NV4500 (which also needs the right bellhousing which is $$$ to find in a hurry) which I've never seen one of for under $1k used on this side of the US, at least since ~2015ish.
- A Ranger Torque Splitter is $1700.

Add in that the Ranger also needs _some_ bellhousing and clutch provisions which I'd have to spend real, actual money on, all of these require hundreds in exhaust work (west coast shop labor ain't cheap, even in Idaho), and it's neither free nor particularly cheap to solve the fuel line/pump/etc. problems with going to MPFI from the 2F either. Different engine accessory brackets, exhaust headers, etc. which might turn out to be necessary to make the thing fit could easily add hundreds to the project cost, too.

I've also priced every possible kind of V8 from seized carb 350 core to used to rebuilt to crate, and the 'cheap but also worth having' ones simply don't exist like they did in 2010 or 1995. Maybe in Kansas, but people want stupid money for a running Tahoe out here these days.

Add in that I'm not interested in different axles, SOA, or (in case it wasn't clear) a slushbox, and that I don't have a welder or access to 220V, and I wouldn't even really know how to weld worth a crap if you put all the right tools in front of me, I'm utterly unconvinced a $2k V8 swap is, in fact, possible for me, period.

Meanwhile, TBI is no welding (unless you decide to 'finish' the self-tap/weld-later-if-you-want exhaust bung), 95% bolt-in, and solves 100% of my running issues all at once. The truck also *almost* drives well enough for my purposes, except for cold starts, high altitude performance, and horrible exhaust stink. A little more seat of pants power would be great, but 4.11 gears and H55f are going to do plenty to solve that. If it looks like *only* $2k will let me have my (imperfect, slow, 2F) cake and eat it, too, without months of engine swap headaches, that seems like an obvious choice to get the truck going on adventures again.

Now, notice that I also said, in my most recent reply before this, that I'm probably swapping a V8 or building a 2FE in next year. If I can afford it, I'm just gonna do it right and do it once, and an absolutely-cheapest LS swap ain't what I've got in mind.
[/

I have done that swap three times now, stock 4 speed, h55, 4l80 and will help you

it can easily be done for less than 2k just as @cruisermatt described

if you buy a parts truck with say a blown trans or one that has been rolled, you can part that truck back out and even get your money back plus some.
my first and third swap were done that way and cost me less than 200$ after parting the trucks back out, which took about a month after I was done with the swaps.

If ya need it I can get you a line on a running donor truck and send you links to your bell housing, motor mounts, and fuel pump.

doors open if you need it, I’ll do what I can to help ya out on this, it’s not as costly or as hard as one thinks.

 

[WSOPgold2012]

Even with TBI, the heat riser helps. My Sniper hates the cold intake on these 17° mornings. There is a kit to plumb warm coolant to the void left behind under the intake if you ditch the stock exhaust manifold. I'm thinking I should source one. Anybody know?

Odd....mine dsnt seem to have any issues with the cold. cld ask @dustinmesina or @wngrog but both live in warmer climates

 

[GeologistFelix]

doors open if you need it, I’ll do what I can to help ya out on this, it’s not as costly or as hard as one thinks.

Man, that's a really tempting offer, but I think my situation makes it...not as awesome a prospect as it sounds like.

Along with having limited tools, I'm also a ludicrously busy phd student stuck living in rentals with limited/no extra work space for at least the next two years. I do have access to a friend's mom's paved driveway in town for a long weekend, or maybe a week if things don't go as planned, tops. So...rolled donor vehicle and extended pick-and-pull at my leisure isn't going to work, but you've reminded me (yet again) why I'm looking forward to having a grownup job that can pay for a house after all of this...

Meanwhile, I can absolutely do a TBI install on my truck where it's parked in the muddy unpaved alley behind my house. I could also build up an engine on a stand in the shed, but I don't have a place to keep a whole donor truck, which has me thinking that a V8 swap is doable, but only if I can get all the major parts dealt with...*off* the truck first, i.e. Mark's Adapter so it's just engine mounts and exhaust which change/move, with (probably) a used 350 longblock which I can put a standalone TBI or MPFI injection onto (More $$$, but seems worth it to freshen up an old engine, cut 85% of the wiring hassle out, etc.).

I'm also picturing blowing all my AAA tows for the year to get the truck between the alley, an exhaust shop, and the paved driveway where we'll do the business with the engine hoist.

So, yeah, I guess the sub-$2k V8 swap is technically possible, but when I take a hard look at what'll get me from 'old 2F that hates to be cold or at high altitude' to 'reliable running in all weather and altitudes', something I don't need any new friggin' infrastructure in my life to pull off is gonna win, even if it's a lot slower than a V8.

Now, if I do line up a place to keep a donor truck (and/or work on mine out of the weather/mud long term), I'll definitely throw you a line!

 

[rhah]

Man, that's a really tempting offer, but I think my situation makes it...not as awesome a prospect as it sounds like.

Along with having limited tools, I'm also a ludicrously busy phd student stuck living in rentals with limited/no extra work space for at least the next two years. I do have access to a friend's mom's paved driveway in town for a long weekend, or maybe a week if things don't go as planned, tops. So...rolled donor vehicle and extended pick-and-pull at my leisure isn't going to work, but you've reminded me (yet again) why I'm looking forward to having a grownup job that can pay for a house after all of this...

Meanwhile, I can absolutely do a TBI install on my truck where it's parked in the muddy unpaved alley behind my house. I could also build up an engine on a stand in the shed, but I don't have a place to keep a whole donor truck, which has me thinking that a V8 swap is doable, but only if I can get all the major parts dealt with...*off* the truck first, i.e. Mark's Adapter so it's just engine mounts and exhaust which change/move, with (probably) a used 350 longblock which I can put a standalone TBI or MPFI injection onto (More $$$, but seems worth it to freshen up an old engine, cut 85% of the wiring hassle out, etc.).

I'm also picturing blowing all my AAA tows for the year to get the truck between the alley, an exhaust shop, and the paved driveway where we'll do the business with the engine hoist.

So, yeah, I guess the sub-$2k V8 swap is technically possible, but when I take a hard look at what'll get me from 'old 2F that hates to be cold or at high altitude' to 'reliable running in all weather and altitudes', something I don't need any new friggin' infrastructure in my life to pull off is gonna win, even if it's a lot slower than a V8.

Now, if I do line up a place to keep a donor truck (and/or work on mine out of the weather/mud long term), I'll definitely throw you a line!

Hope ya do!

I herd neighbors love open headers and the spg's driving to the exhaust shop is always worth it